Anyone got any tips for training the 'Stop The Dog' part of the Good Citizen Gold test? Tried throwing a titbit, having someone hold the lead to stop him, training in different places when out and about, but he comes SO fast he's with me before he can stop!!!!

When I had to train that, I used a different recall word. Instead of "here" which is my normal formal recall word, I use "come slow". So the dog knows to come slower and that he will be asked to drop. So I first taught him to come to me slower by doing really short recalls and slowing him down. Once that worked, adding the down half way through was no problem.

Vera

Agree with Vera, I also use a different command, I always say 'slow', so the dog knows he is going to stop halfway - and also, as dogs are so good at reading our body language, when I walk away and face the dog, I turn left (for recall I always turn right), and I place my feet together, instead of apart as in recall.  And I have my hands differently - on recall, I outstretch my arms, on drop on recall, I lift my arms out in front of me keeping my hands together and just say 'slow'.  The other thing people at our club do is, instead of facing the dog, they stand side-on to the dog, so the dog then knows it's not doing a recall - and that was allowed in the Gold.
Hilda

Have you tried throwing a titbit before he is released? If the dog is food orientated then that may work to start it off.
That is how i personally did it for my boy who comes running at me mega fast to sit at my feet on recall.

Hi Boysee

We recently got our Gold and this was my problem one.  What command are you using for the stop?  Our trainer preferred a down but this just wasn't very practical for us so I coupled our stop with the remote sit that we had already been practising.

For a while I taught both aspects independantly.  Remote sit was initially taught when he couldn't get to me - on the other side of a gate or stream, or when he was tethered.  I found this if I took a treat out of my pocket he watched my hand so I raised the hand slowly and asked for the sit as his butt was dropping naturally.  I could fling the treat over the gate etc so it became a fun game for him and pretty reliable too.  I now couple the hand signal with a whistle as I'm trying to get a more accurate command to use over a greater distance.

I wasn't willing to compromise my boy's excellent recall so, as others have mentioned, I used a completely different instruction when I was going to stop him.  To ask him to come forward slowly I stood only a few paces in front of him and using my hands/palms I gestured him forward "walk forward" at the same time as I moved back slowly.  I found that I could increase the distance, to the length of the hall and beyond, but still get him to walk steady rather than zoom in and knock my knees from under me!!  I soon found that as he anticipated the stop he was coming forward slower and slower and when I added the sit he slowed up even more!!  One other thing you may need to do for a while is, if he overshoots your stop point, lead him back to it and repeat the instruction, he'll soon learn that you want precision.  I used a strip of paving slabs in our garden and my boy worked out where his stop point was - it helped to reinforce timing.

In the test we were given a zone in which to stop the dog and once you start getting comfortable with the commands you'll probably find your dog responds to the exercise quite well and will even anticipate your command.  I know it's not strictly speaking what you are training for but it will help to pass the test - just watch your dog very carefully for signs of stopping and call the instruction to meet it.  It's a harder exercise in 'real life' but I found the combination of training outside and inside really helped my boy understand what he needed to do.  HTH and good luck :)

I find this the most difficult as well... although stop on sendaway is pretty awful!  Unfortunately I'm not coordinated enough to throw a tit bit - I end up throwing it miles out of the way.  I've found, after LOTS of trial and error, screaming (and I do mean really shouting quite loud... like life or death loud) 'wait' rather than 'stop' or a position works best.  My dogs for some reason are much more able to just wait on command than do a position mid-recall.  Also they were very familiar with the word 'wait', whereas 'stop' was completely new.  It does mean they normally stop in a stand, but that is perfectly acceptable for the test... just not competition obedience I guess..

Also, if you can make your recall command as boring as possible - I look away from them, keep my arms by my side and whisper for them to come. 

good luck... gold is hard isn't it?  I've so far only passed with one of mine... my bitch will not stay in a down position :-(

If you can get someone to help you........Your friend has the dog on a long line, you face the dog and call him to you.  Your friend lets the dog take up the tension on the line before you call and keeps the tension there as he is coming towards you (this is important as you don't want to stop the dog with a jerk to his neck).  When you give your 'stop' command, the friend holds the line still.

He should start to anticipate stopping when you command.  Eventually do it with a loose line and the friend there just in case, then with the line on the floor and eventually without it at all.

Good luck

I use a down command to stop my dog. The Gold level includes the emergency stop because it can save a dog's life . For that reason I decided to use a command that I would naturally use in an emergency.

I taught my dog to do a long distance down, starting off at close quarters to him and then worked on increasing the distance between us. I then started to do a recall from a short distance and incorporated the down into this exercise taking care that I didn't always stop him as I didn't want him to anticipate a stop command and second guess me. The key for me was to have a very quick response to a down command. Have you tried walking him in the heel position and then getting him to down as you keep walking? If your dog is used to doing this it is much easier for  him to respond to the down command whether he is coming towards you or going away from you. In an emergency he could be anywhere other than close enough for you to take hold of him.

Thanks for all your suggestions. I guess trying to slow him down first will be the most sensible way to go.
Don't want to ruin his recall as he's in the 'Kevin' stage at the moment!!!!
Yes Gold is difficult. I've got 7 through over the years but am struggling a bit with this boy.
All of them seemed to react differently to this exercise. One really hated it and used to end up sat on a chair in the hall instead!!!

We are doing our silver now with Mason (8months) and have started practising the Stop already for gold.
I found that if i pretend to throw a ball with him sat at my side, he goes to chase it thinking its been thrown and when he turns around as if to say "hey...umm..ball?" We used the stop command. He then gets the ball as the reward for stopping. We have only just started this and this information may be of no relevance to you what so ever but it worked for us to get him used to the command and action we wanted from him. He is also very fast and finds stopping from long distance recall tricky. Once he has grasped the Stop we will look at trying that again!
Good Luck!

My dog comes in so fast that i had a lot of trouble with the drop on recall.
I used to tell him to go 'steady' first, then call him quite quietly (jolly jolly voice used to wind him up and make him come like an exocet missile). Then holding my hand palm faced towards him i used to firmly shout 'wait' at the same time as taking a step towards him, then when he stopped, the down command. Took him some time to understand but now he is brilliant at it.

Different command AND different posture. When I do a formal recall, I stand with my feet slightly apart and sue the word come. For a stop at distance, I stand with my feet close together and chose a different word. The two means the dog instantly knows it is meant to stop and not do a recall. Have to admit one of my Papillons took 3 years to learn it, only just passed his Gold a few weeks ago, but all the others I've done gold with got it within one or two attempts.

That's much what I do as well Alison. Just to add -the dog doesn't need to do a down, it can stop in a stand or sit or a down, all are accepted. I find the dogs tend to chose what suits them best and I just go along with it.

I find all my dogs 'choose' the position they stop in.  My male Rottie always stands when given his wait command and my Staffie bitch puts herself into a sit, Loki the Akita....well she doesn't really know what stop means lol (she's not really that bad and does stand and wait but not instantly like the others).

Hi

I am currently doing the silver with my westie who is 9 months old, we are taking the exam this week, we did a trial exam last week and in the test you have got to do a 4 minute settle where you leave the room and they must stay calm and not bark, i am having a bit of trouble with this at the moment as he is inclined to whine when i leave him tied up to the door handle, when we leave him at home to go out i crate him and he is fine you don't hear a peep out of him but on leaving him tied up to a door handle he doesn't seem to be liking this, the trainer said as long as he doesn't start barking and getting really stressed a slight whine is okay for him to pass but i am not sure on the day whether he will do it, i am doing it every day at home at the moment but 4 minutes seems so long and he just seems to get bored waiting.
I assume you will have to do this for your silver as they must all be the same have you found this quite easy?
I had trouble at first with him doing the retrieve but after practicing every day for the past few weeks he now seems okay with this which i am pleased about.
anyone got any tips?

Helen

You'll be pleased to know that the 'Relaxed Isolation' is part of the GOLD test, not the SILVER, so you've got more time to practice :-)

I havent done this yet so not 100% sure how i would go about it, Mason probably wouldnt have much trouble as he is not crated when we go out or he is upstairs (in the pub) Doesnt bat an eyelid to be honest :)
I would suggest just building it up slowly, say starting with 10 seconds and working up to the whole 4 minutes gradually. Also, when leaving and returning dont make too much of a fuss or he might get over excited.
Mason is my first and only, dog so im not talking from an experienced POV just from what has helped with our training! :)

With my girls, I use a slightly different stance when calling them in to me and have my arms lower.  I also tell them we're doing  a 'drop' recall when leaving them so they understand - do they?  I also use the word 'wait' to stop them.  Initially, if I were you I would try and slow down the pace of them coming to you by altering what you do from a normal recall.  Good Luck.

The 4 minute settle is in our silver test this week as they went thru the trial test last week and we had to do a trial run then, so i have been doing it most of the week at home tying him up indoors and going out of the room, he just doesn't seem to like being tyed up on his lead.

In the silver award the dog has to settle for 2 minutes and the handler stays in sight

The link is to the KC documents regarding the elements for each test.

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/download/2851/gcdssilver.pdf

That's odd... 4 min settle definitely is a gold test thing for us, says so on KC sheet too.  I found that it was best not to practice that one at all... when my dogs didn't know what was happening, they just sat patiently in anticipation.  Once they realised it was a proper exercise, they didn't settle so easily.  It's a strange one, as it is quite different to anything they would be required to do in the 'real world', well unless you tie them outside shops etc. which I personally don't.  If you do want to practice it, is there anyway you could practice in the premises where you will have the test?  Being tied up in a room at home I would think is quite different to where you train.  I've also seen lots of people whisper a sneaky 'wait' or 'stay' before they leave :-D

We are doing the british institute of professional dog trainers dog training, and in the silver it is a 4 minute settle with owner out of sight and in the gold exam it is a 4 minute settle with owner out of sight and distractions, i have just looked on the kennel club link that you gave me and we are defo doing a lot more for out exams than in the kennel club 1.
Don't think he is gonna do it though cause as soon as i go out of the room he starts to whine, but hey ho never mind its not the end of the world, didn't think he was gonna learn to retrieve but he has, will let you all know how we get on tomorrow evening.

Helen

We are doing the british institute of professional dog trainers dog training,

That would explain why the exercises are different then :-) Good luck with the test :-)

Hi All

Well we took the test last night he passed on every other element except for the 4 min isolation out of sight, as soon as i tied him up and left the room he started whining so the examiner came and asked me to return to the room, its such a shame because he did the retrieve on the 1st attempt walked to heel off the lead changing paces and was brilliant just that he hates being tied up and left, they said he is at gold standard apart from the distance control so they are allowing him to go up to the gold class as in this class they do more training in distance control so they feel this will be good for him, then in 8 weeks time he can retake the silver test and hopefully pass this time.
I am so proud of him as he is only 9 months old and has done so well, the other dogs sitting the exam failed on more aspects than Robbie and they were all over 2 years old so i think he is marvellous, the trainers feel that he is ready for gold training and that this will do him good to go up to the next class just that he will have to resit the silver and pass before he can move onto the gold.
I think that the 4 minute relaxed isolation is a lot to expect in the silver test and should be more in the gold, but in the gold test they have got to do a 4 minute relaxed isolation with distractions aswell which are gonna be fun.

I've also seen lots of people whisper a sneaky 'wait' or 'stay' before they leave :-D

I've always felt that it is really daft that you CANNOT say anything. Why? What will it achieve?  Would anybody REALLY tie their dog up somewhere (and most dogs would not be left at ALL as it isn't safe) without saying a single word to the dog? Of course not. I remember doing a character assessment with a breed club and part of that was tying the dog to a tree outside and then disappearing out of sight, again you were not allowed to say anything or give any signal. I queried this because I didn't think it was very fair on the dog, and the explanation I was given was that it was so that you would be able to quickly tie your dog up somewhere in an emergency. But if you have time to tie your dog up, surely you have time to say just one word!

I don't think the relaxed isolation can really be compared to a dog being left at home, because the test will never take place at home. At home I will leave without a word, anywhere else I would not.

Is that again in the rules and regulations then about now being able to command your dog?

I for one always said 'stay' or 'wait' depending on the task ahead before we did it. When i did the isolation i used a command before walking away. The dog has no idea what he should be doing if no command is given to him, especially when it comes to gold and being off lead for it. How is the dog going to know he should stay put until he is told unless told to 'stay' or 'wait'..

Saying that when i say 'wait' i also put my hand up, so they soon learn a hand command and this can also be helpful too.

Is that again in the rules and regulations then about now being able to command your dog?

That part is actually mentioned in the papers you are given. It says:
Note: Dogs should be tested for their relaxed demenour in isolation without any prior controls being imposed by the handler.

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/download/2852/gcdsgold.pdf

Thanks Marianne, may be the rules, which i don't agree with, but hey ho..

As for my trainer think she may of got lax recently then.. But then we do have judges from around the area who don't see anything wrong in the way we conduct ourselves on test night.

I personally can't wait to go back and start learning with my new boy, 2 weeks to go before we start. Not a bad age to start with the little one, 4 months. We will go straight into bronze i think, been doing a lot of work with him at home and think he may over excel in the puppy class.

I've not even gone for a Bronze so can't comment from experience on the tests BUT am worried that these tests could end up like obedience dog training [and like  much in childrens' education] trained to pass a test not to be a 'Good Citizen'! 
Note: Dogs should be tested for their relaxed demenour in isolation without any prior controls being imposed by the handler.
What is the intention behind this?  Surely this is meant to test the dogs' ability, confidence and trust in its ownwer/handler and itself to be relaxed on its own not its ability to mind read?  If it is to be left outside, tied up or otherwise, surely a word or signal would be appropriate?  How would the dog know to stay otherwise?  Surely the test is for a dog that is well-behaved and amenable in varying levels of everyday situations.  If it is to be left enclosed, eg in a vets examination room you could maybe expect a dog to wait without a command but even then most peole would give some sort of indication of what is expected.  I've a vague recollection that the mental capacity of dogs is about that of a 7 year old child [or thereabouts].  Would anyone expect to leave a child of that age without any sort of instruction? 

Remember your examiner may ask you to stop the dog as it is going away from the handler!

Stopping a dog in mid flight will not ruin your recall unless of course your training is poor.

the reason for leaving the dog in isolation is that it is something that is useful in real life, whilst you attend to something or someone else.  You are not bothered if the dog is in a particular position only that it stays somewhere maybe tied up or alone in a hotel room in your absence.

You are hardly going to ask a dog to remain in a position whilst you go down to collect your bags, eat lunch etc etc are you?

>You are hardly going to ask a dog to remain in a position whilst you go down to collect your bags, eat lunch etc etc are you?

No, but you are going to tell it to "Wait there, I won't be long". To be expected to leave it without a word is what's strange.

Absolutely Jeangenie - that's what I was trying to get at.   I leave my dogs in various situations, home alone when going to work, shops, out for fun or otherwise and they know the signs for different activities; they also know the 'words' or at least tone of voice eg 'I've got to go to work - see you at lunch' or 'Just going to the shop - won't be long' etc - they seem to know what I mean and go into different modes accordingly.
Tohme - I don't know if you were actually replying to me or not - I don't think so but it's an interesting point.  Taking this to the extreme - would you be expected to stop, or drop, your dog whilst going away from the handler [or otherwise] without a command?  I don't think so.  I have trained some of my dogs to this level;  [not an Elkhound though I live in hope LOL] using this.  Although saying this, I regularly practice preventing my dogs [including Elkhound] from continuing forward into an area I'm unsure of [possibility of road/livestock or other potential hazard by telling them to STOP.  I also vary the command with a whistle, signal and or verbal command.  I just think they need to know what we want of them.

OOPs tohme - just re-read OP - last post still stands but ...

I had a cracking GSD x flat coat retriever who would do sendaways, directional control [arm pointed to left or right] down on recall and/or sendaway.  He was ball mad.  I started training him, like everything else, in 'baby steps'.  I also found what really motivated him - the ball. 
Depending on your dog's motivation depends on how you train them - if yours is highly active I think it's a good idea to work of some of their energy before trying to train a 'stop' or 'inactive' command.  Maybe try to train when energy expended but VERY hungry - stop t[or whatever command] then means food.  Do remember to do this very slowly - just like training a pup to sit or whatever - let them do the action first; reward them for doing it; then start to link a command with the action [including reward]. 
The reason I use verbal, hand signal and whistle commands is that different situations require different methods - also if a dog becomes deaf a hand-signal is great, if a dog is too far away for voice a whistle travels further - as for voice - I like to talk LOL.
Good luck - let us know how you go on.

We went back to basics and short distances and he's now stopping on the NO command and hand signal (most times anyway :-)) Thanks all, I'll let you know how we get on when the test comes round.

I remember people using two ways when training the stop on top of the "normal ways".
If your dog is quick and good on catching things you could try the following I have seen people use with success:
Throw your dog a treat to catch(hand up will be the stop signal) start by dog standing in front of not moving you and getting them to catch a treat, teach them what catch means.
Move onto dog moving around but not doing a recall to you and just say catch and lifting your hand up to throw the treat, chances are the dog will stop to stare the treat and wait for it to be thrown. When the dog knows this routine you can start doing it with when they move towards you. I have seen some pretty quick dogs taught to do extremely quick stops using this method.obviously you will stop throwing the treat when the dog reacts to the hand signal and go and give it to them instead...

My own dogs are slow and I have used broom handle or plate to mark where to stop and teaching them to stop when we go over/past the handle together.
Then when they know what the broom handle stands for doing recall and they have very quickly learned to stop at the handle. You can then start chopping the handle to a smaller and smaller bit and in the end no need for the handle.
Same with the paper plate but using a treat on the plate... they learn to stop at the plate to get the treat and when they know what to do again, chop the plate to be smaller and smaller until you have tiny little piece and actually have no treat there but when they stop the treat comes from you.

Little bit different ways to teach it and might not work with all dogs but as I said I have seen many dogs trained like this :)...
Not sure if you can give "double command" e.g. hand signal and word?
When I did obedience in Finland only one command is allowed and most seemed to use a hand signal and find it more effective, but again depends on your dog really.

Well he did a perfect 'stop' tonight during his GOLD test. Thanks for all your suggestions. I used hand signal plus "NO" then "SIT". I think he just needed a different command !!
Just the 'road walk' to do now.........

Me too mine has learnt "wait". He will then stand still until I catch up!!

Well I'm very pleased to say that he PASSED his GOLD today  :-) :-) :-)

Congratulations that's great news, and well done to you both xx

You must be very proud.

Thanks I am very pleased with him. Thanks to everyone for all the suggestions of help.

Well done!