I met a lady at ringcraft who was looking for a puppy ( not my breed ) so myself and a few others chatted to her and told her to get in touch with the breed club and the KC to find out more information etc.
Just had a phone call from her , she spoke to the KC and was recommended to use an accredited breeder who's litter details were registered with the KC.
She made an appointment to see some pups.
When she got there she was met at the farm gate by a man with a shotgun who asked her all kinds of questions about who she was and what she wanted, and then was frog marched down to the kennel block were she was shown litter after litter if this breed in filthy conditions, the mums were bags of bones most of their hair missing, the puppys were flea infested with not much hair and covered in pee and feaces, the smell was over whelming, she was then taken to another kennel block with more of the same.
Just inside the door of the second kennel block proudly displayed was the guys KC Acredited breeder certificate which he pointed out to her.
When she said that she had changed her mind , the chap got quite nasty and started waving his gun around shouting at her that she was wasting his time and that he had many more people coming to see the pups she was very scared.
She bought a pup out of fear, she took it straight to the vets and the pup had to be put to sleep as it had parvo.
She rang the KC and told them of all that had happenend and they told her that they cannot check individual kennels and if people apply for Accredited status and fillout the form correctly they have to process it.

I am so gobsmacked

Peanuts

The lady will have been given a feedback form (one of the requirements of the AB scheme) so she should complain in writing to the KC. Her vet will be able to back her story, so it will be taken seriously. They will investigate and, if necessary, remove the AB status. Has she also complained to the RSPCA?

As far as i can gather she was given no paperwork at all , and yes she has reported it to he RSPCA and had told the police about the gun.

Peanuts

id be more concerned about the misappropriate use of a firearm. Get her to report it to the police!!!

This is why I question the KC at times !!

If they are going to hand out AB cert to any one then it does not mean a thing. If they did what the British Horse Society does and checked up on people who wanted to be accredited then it would be much better. I know this may be hard for them to do as it would mean having to pay someone to do it but if it was going to stop people like this getting approved it would be a good thing.

I have thought long and hard about breeding with my girl and was even considering applying for the Breeder certificate but it troubles me that they will hand out this cert to people who are just Puppy Farmers !!!

What could be done to resolve this do you think ?

Is the Lady going to do any more about it ? I bet she is a bit worried about doing any thing as the man sounds like a horror !!!

>yes she has reported it to he RSPCA and had told the police about the gun.

Good. :-)

This link details the requirements of an Accredited Breeder. If the establishment where she was intimidated into buying a puppy fail on any of the points (and it certainly sounds as if that's the case!) then she MUST put her complaint, in writing, to the KC. Without feedback from the public there's no way that they can know about bad practice and bringing their name into disrepute.

If she doesn't do this then she is condoning the appalling behaviour. It really is her responsibility - because she has the evidence -  to make sure the right people are told and stop this sort of thing.

Are the K.C. likely to act on one person's complaint? This is yet another negative imho regarding this scheme.

Yes they are, especially with a vet's backing letter. They certainly can't act without a single complaint. And how do you know they haven't had previous complaints but no evidence?

I'm willing to bet that this lady wishes someone had complained before, so that she didn't suffer like this. And if she doesn't complain, then other people will suffer in future.

I can't stress strongly enough that it's down to each one of us to make sure things are done properly. If we don't care enough to complain, why should anyone else care enough to stop it?

The only reason I asked is because the breeder is obviously still in business. How quickly do the K.C. act upon complaints I wonder? I really feel that the minimum the K.C. should do is to check out the facilities of breeders applying for the AC scheme, not just accept anyone who fills in the form and pays the fee.

>The only reason I asked is because the breeder is obviously still in business.

They would be, if nobody's bothered to complain ...

The KC, as so many other bodies (even Champdogs!) relies upon people's honesty. (I have no idea who you are, for instance - anything you put on your profile could be a pack of lies!). When there's a breach of trust it should be acted upon.

Horrifying experience and poor pup and puppies.
That is why I won't join the scheme. Anyone can as long as they hand over their money and do the tests. I believe that you should have to have a litter first and get your puppy owners to fill in a form which they send off to the KC outlining if they were happy with the puppy, the integrity of the breeder and what information they received. Then a breeder could join.
I know of someone in our breed who brags on their site that they were one of the first to join. Have already had three litters and have been 'showing' without success for 3 years (same amount of litters as me, after 14 years of showing) and has just mated their own dog to their own bitch (half brother and sister) and both lines carry HC, and yet their 'credibility' looks wonderful in the KC eyes.

I would also add that this breeder could well have had his KC accreditation withdrawn ........unless the certificate is handed back it could hang on a wall for ever - and who would look at the date?   It is also possible, in this computer age, to copy and falsify such a document - it wouldn't fool the authorities, but it could fool Mr & Mrs Public!

I just hope the lady concerned has contacted (1) police - misuse of a firearm (2) local trading standards authority (3) kennel club - with back-up from vet.   Also worth contacting DWP - it isn't unknown for people to be claiming benefits and also running such businesses.

RSPCA are, in my opinion, a waste of time - and I'd lay odds that the DWP and HMRC will conduct a faster investigation!

I don't know if the KC are tightening things up, but yesterday I looked at the ABS application form and it mentioned  things I'd not heard of before. One of the complaints always used to be that people could join even if they had never bred a litter. Now it says you must have at least one bitch of breeding age, and if you have not bred a litter the application will be kept pending until you do. And also if you have bred more than 5 litters in 12 months you will be getting a visit to check you out before you are approved.

>And also if you have bred more than 5 litters in 12 months you will be getting a visit to check you out before you >are approved.

How would the KC know tho?    All a dubious breeder would have to do is not register the 'extra' litters, or register 2 smaller litters as one :( :(   If people are dishonest then the KC won't know until people complain :( :(

I would be contacting the police, the RSPCA, the KC and the breeds breed club via letter.  It's no good with phone calls they need something which is able to detail all that has gone on.

Well i will hopefully be seeing the lady on Thursday so i will hopefully have an update.

Peanuts

But if they do breed more than 5 litters they should be licensed. This has always been my argument. They have all the info on their database and yet will not check that a licensed breeder is not breeding from bitches twice in one year. They should ask the question when that fifth litter is registered 'do you hold a license' and then should take all the details and keep it on their database. Basically they are permitting the breeder to break the rules of the license. I know it shouldn't be up to them to police, but as they have all that info they should help and by doing so make themselves more credible in the eyes of the general public. I do all the health checks, all my dogs are microchipped and I will always join any scheme that will improve my breed, but I won't join the AB scheme until they can make it really count.

>How would the KC know tho? 

Doesn't it sound though as if the things Marianne mentions are developments in the scheme, in response to issues that people have raised with it? Surely we would all have to applaud the KC for acting on these, even if the progress is relatively slow.

The KC can only know what is recorded on their own system. Oh, and no, I haven't been a particular supporter of the AB scheme in the past, as I felt there were too many issues that could be addressed and weren't, but I will happily give the KC credit as they start addressing them.

M.

That is awful, your poor friend. How frightening to be threatened to buy a pup with a gun then the trauma of having it put to sleep.

> the KC and told them of all that had happenend and they told her that they cannot check individual kennels and if people apply for Accredited status and fillout the form correctly they have to process it.
>

I'm not a breeder - how do breeders become accredited? Surely it shouldnt just be a case of filling in a form or every Tom Dick and Harry could have one without actually being worthy of having it, like the man in question. Sounds like the KC give them out to sweets to anyone who fills in a form

Please let us know the outcome - this evil man needs to be fought all the way

>how do breeders become accredited?

Fill in the form and send your money, unfrotantly.

We did become accredited breeders earlier this year because we felt it does have some good points which we follow anyway (and more due to breed club code of ethics)

We joined at the same time as transfering bitch to add a name, plus adding a new name on affix...

> RSPCA are, in my opinion, a waste of time

They can and do prosecute where they have sufficient evidence and likelihood of it succeeding - so I would involve them too, myself.

Thing is if people don't report them then there's not a lot that the KC can do.  I'm not sure how their computer shows up how many litters have been bred in an establishment, many breeders get by this by registering some bitches in the wifes name and some in the husbands name thus allowing them to have quite a few litters as they are not of the same ownership!