Rushed Mason to the vets at 6 this morning after he started to bloat and he couldnt be sick. He wouldnt come in from the garden after i let him out because he was wretching, so i went to get him and he was a little bloated. Went to the vets and had to wait a while whilst the vet got there and he got bigger and bigger. He wasnt in shock, his heart rate was good and we caught it quickly. The vet let the air out and preped him for surgery. Im still awaiting that phonecall to tell me that he is ok.

He is my first Dogue and at 3 and 3 months he is still a baby. I pray that he will be ok as he will leave more than me heartbroken, his soulmate Ruby.

Louise

All fingers crossed for you.  Luckily you caught it quick enough, all my wishes are with you.

Well done on catching it so soon. Fingers crossed.

Sending lots of positive vibes to mason and some hugs to you.
Well done for catching it so early.  Hope he is fine please keep us updated.

Hi Louise,

I hope mason is home with you and Ruby very soon, you caught him early so hopefully he will be just fine

X

Hi

Just got a call from the vets, the operation didnt quite go to plan. He had gone the full 360 along with his spleen, although they didnt have to remove it. He has a ventricular arrhythmia and he vomited past the band and into his lungs. He is on a drip and he suffered from shock ,they will phone me in a few hours. Good news is that his tummys a good colour.

I would like to add that we normally feed BARF diet but are struggling to find a regular supply now i have moved to lancashire. We ran out on friday so i bought some biscuits for a mixer with frozen tripe. The vet said he was full of biscuits that had swollen in water. I know this happens anyway, i just wanted to let you know the circumstances around it. He was fed at approx 8 last night, no exercise afterwords and we went to bed early.

Louise

So sorry to hear your news.  Thank goodness you caught it so early.  We're all rooting for you.  Keep strong.

Keeping everything crossed here.

praying he's ok for you louise. i am terrified of bloat, its such a scary thing.

What a nightmare!

All fingers and paws crossed here!

Just got another call back from the vets.

He is doing ok, hes come round and cleared most of the sick from his lungs, his arhythmia has gone and he has a mastiff next door for company (my scars bigger than your scar). He had alot of trouble righting the stomach so his wound is extra large, 13 stitches so he will have a lampshade bless him. They are keeping him in for obs on his arhythmia so i should get him home tomorrow. My baby what a relief, there are so many in this breed that die because of this. Wagg i shall never ever ever get this again. The numb feeling has gone and i shall have to spoil him to bits tomorrow. Hope he doesnt cry for me tonight.

Louise

ETA paranoia pays off, i was out in my knickers on the phone to the vet but its paid off

Great news :)
I hope he continues to improve and that he is back home with you tomorrow as planned.

>ETA paranoia pays off, i was out in my knickers on the phone to the vet but its paid off

Good on you for being paranoid :)

ETA. Hope you don't mind me asking, did you soak the kibble prior to feeding? I feed soaked kibble and despite knowing Buster has never had a problem with it (touch wood, so far), I am extra paranoid now!

Glad to hear he's on the mend. :) :) I shall echo mastifflover, I have said on here many, many times that I would never feed any dried food without soaking it first, for any breed. When I worked as a vet nurse the vet always used to say to take a piece of your dog's food and soak it in warm water and WATCH how it expands over several minutes (and time it to see how long it takes before it is soft all the way through, without a hard core) -then imagine it having to do that inside the dog's stomach. Then you'll realise how the quantity expands and also how hard the stomach acids will have to work, risking both bloat and indigestion which can take the shape of all sorts of symptoms. It all ensured I'd never consider feeding dry without soaking it first.

Wwll done Louise your paranoia saved his life , bloat is always at the back of our minds especially with large and giant breeds.
I hope he makes a full recovery now and you feel better as well once you get over the shock.
Its times like these you realise how much you value a good vet .
Sharon

>I would never feed any dried food without soaking it first, for any breed.

I ditto that. It also demonstrates how much extra water, above the normal amount they drink, they need to take in to be able to soften the kibble enough to digest it at all.

Oh god i feed my lot Wagg and raw, have fed wagg now for 6 years. Though they only have a small amount of kibble once a day and more raw. Thats made me worry now!

Glad mason is doing better and hope he is home tommorrow :)

Well wag was a first for me and i dont usually use biscuits. But these things happen, its chappie until my order comes. crate rest for the poor boy tomorow and pigs ears.

Louise

PS i didnt soak the kibble it never occured to me, (but i think ill remember if im ever in this situation again) he has been tacked so hopefully it cant happen again. I think because i bought wagg which are smaller kibble he doesnt chew them they will have just been hovered down intact and more surface area to absorb water. The buscuits i used to get were large breed so bigger kibbles would have been cruched so more like a mush other than a sponge in his belly.

If that makes sense......

So glad that he seems to be recovering well.

I've never, ever soaked my dried food in the 20 odd years of feeding it, but there again my breeds are not known for suffering with bloat.

Hope all continues to go well.

> When I worked as a vet nurse the vet always used to say to take a piece of your dog's food and soak it in warm water and WATCH how it expands over several minutes (and time it to see how long it takes before it is soft all the way through, without a hard core) -then imagine it having to do that inside the dog's stomach. Then you'll realise how the quantity expands and also how hard the stomach acids will have to work, risking both bloat and indigestion which can take the shape of all sorts of symptoms.

I have just experimented with both dogs food on reading this and am quite surprised.  I have never soaked kibble as I thought the whole point of feeding crunchy food rather than wet food in tins or pouches was that the crunching was good for their teeth.

My staffy is on salters food and some bits are total mush after 20 mins but other bits are still firmish.  She doesn't drink much water but the food hasn't expanded too much, less than a 50% increase in volume.

My rott pup is on orijen which is still solid and the same size after nearly an hour in the water.  Is that because it is grain free?  Is it better if it doesn't swell?  I don't know much about canine digestion and food composition but am assuming this might be why he drinks far more than my staffy.

> It also demonstrates how much extra water, above the normal amount they drink, they need to take in

That was one of my main concerns with feeding dried, as well as the bloat issue, since Dorain is prone to bladder problems and is bad for not drinking enough - hence the switch to wet food (Naturediet) and hopefully to BARF at some point if I can work out how to do it, cos the Naturediet aint cheap!!

Since Piglet's last little escapade bladderwise I'm actually soaking his breakfast kibble overnight (and his evening kibble at lunchtime) so that it's at least doubled its size. I've found it needs at least twice the volume of water to food; it's mushy, but he was never a cruncher anyway! Whether or not it's coincidence I don't know, but since I've been doing this he's had a much better 'flow', and his wee is much paler too, which is good.

I used to soak kibble when he was a pup but stopped - however, even soaked, it still has so much less water (and Dorain is so difficult when it comes to drinking - sometimes tempting him with some warmed semi-skimmed milk mixed with warm water so he's not getting too much lactose has worked) that I really feel I must feed him wet now. I wouldn't worry so much if it wasn't for the bladder issues he's had (thankfully never stones like your Piglet) - including really nasty chronic cystitis for weeks, and crystals in his urine - struvite, not urate, not being a Dal!

Certainly wet food sounds the most sensible way to feed him, to make sure he gets enough fluid.

(Have you tried saying "Have a lovely drinky? Num-nums!"? It might work ... ;-) :-D)

> I have never soaked kibble as I thought the whole point of feeding crunchy food rather than wet food in tins or pouches was that the crunching was good for their teeth.
>

I used to feed Buster dry kibble as I too thought it would help his teeth, but he just swallows mouthfulls whole without chewing, basically if something will fit down his throat he'll not bother chewing it so feeding him dry kibble did nothing for his teeth. What made me switch to soaking his kibble was the sheer volume of water he would drink after eating a dry meal and of course with all of that lapping he was taking in a lot of air too, what air didn't come back up in belches could be heard gurgling around in his belly untill it made it's way out the other end. Since he's had soaked food he only has a small drink after eating and doesn't drink as much through the day as when he did when he was eating dry kibble.

> (Have you tried saying "Have a lovely drinky? Num-nums!"? It might work ... ;-) :-D)

Believe me, I have said a lot of things.... LOL.... he's also suspicious of water from different areas - think it must taste different. Maybe I should try him with bottled water instead of plain tap water. *rolls eyes*. I did actually consider drawing off tap water and leaving it to stand before giving him it - I know that's what your meant to do with fish, for the fluoride or whatever it is that kills them in tap water to evaporate off, and see if that was what he objected to in the taste. He doesn't eat sugary food so the fluoride isn't an issue. (Well, not much.... *blush* )

Glad to hear he is ok now.

For those feeding kibble I am amazed how much cheep foods expand, higher quality (more expensive) brands don't expand as much, in my experiance.

So very pleased that he is ok. How scary for you. I am totally gobsmacked by the comments about bloat and soaking kibble. I must be very naive. I have never heard of doing this!! Is it just certain breeds that are prone to it?? My girls all have dry kibble and never had any problems but am scared to death now.

Glad to hear he is doing better. It's a good job he has such a vigilent Mum.

>Is it just certain breeds that are prone to it??

The bigger the breed the greater the risk. It's unusual, but not unheard-of, in labradors. I've known dalmatians that have died from it - pointers, wiemaraners, setters, many hound breeds, boxers, danes ... all should be considered potential sufferers.

Don't forget Bassets - I know you've put hound breeds, but people often don't think of them cos they're short-legged so they think small, but they're still deep chested. A friend has had her English Springer die of one too - so it can happen in breeds out of the usual as well.

Bassets should be thought of as the size of dog they'd be if they had normal length legs - so they're really about the size of a bloodhound! I've known springers taller than labradors, so I certainly wouldn't consider them a 'safe' breed. In fact no breed should be thought of as being immune from the condition. Although the dogs at greatest risk are the bigger breeds nature has a way of bowling a googly when you least expect it! Dobermanns, and wolfhounds, and standard poodles, and GSDs, and St Bernards, and akitas, and golden retrievers and ... the list goes on.

> Bassets should be thought of as the size of dog they'd be if they had normal length legs - so they're really about the size of a bloodhound!

Well yes - but a lot of people forget that. The Springer I was talking about was a little lass, not one of the show type... what I was trying to say is there are breeds more at risk - but just because your dog isn't one of the breeds it's commonly seen in, or is small, don't discount it.

Absolutely right - no dog should be considered immune, whatever its ancestry.

Im at present soaking Rubys supper to mix with her tripe. She is very sad and mopey so im not sure if she will eat it. I think she will be very relieved as will i to see him again tomorrow, im going to go and visit him in the morning and hopefully he should be home by teatime.

Totally agree that its the cheaper brands that caused this, ive never had a problem on beta and JWB. Its known in deep chested breeds labs, gsds, boxers, but its best not to risk it with any breed of dog.

Louise

Deep chested breeds are prone more, I have setters and luckily never experianced it *touch Wood*

The biggest dilemma I find is feeding with or without stands.  Some say with, others say without....

I tried stands but the dishes were not big enough. But now i feed raw which needs a good chew and they tend to lie down with their tasty morsel, meat doesnt swell.

Oh for the gift of hindsight

> The biggest dilemma I find is feeding with or without stands.  Some say with, others say without....

Ohhh, same here. Busters breeder has over 30 yrs in the breed and has never used any type of raised feeder. but as Buster started to grow, it looked so uncomfortable watching him bending down to eat, I got him a stand. He did have water & food from a raised feeder, but decided that shiny metal bowls are too freaky to drink water from (!), I couldn't find a plastic bowl to fit his stand so he has water in a bowl on the floor now.

> The biggest dilemma I find is feeding with or without stands.  Some say with, others say without....

There do seem to be arguments both ways. I use a stand because of orthopaedic problems anyway, so don't need to try and decide from that point of view. :-)

> I couldn't find a plastic bowl to fit his stand

As a temporary measure once I used a small table for Dorain's water bowl.... I have one of those sets of 3 tables that slide inside each other, came from Argos years ago, and one was just the right height for his water!!! Never mind a dog bowl for a mastiff, don't you need a washing up bowl for his water? :-D

> hopefully he should be home by teatime

Sorry to hear about poor Mason. What an ordeal for you both. It's so lucky that you were on the case so quickly. Bloat is just all our worst nightmare with this beloved breed of ours.

Hope it goes well overnight and that you get him back safely tomorrow. x

> Never mind a dog bowl for a mastiff, don't you need a washing up bowl for his water? :-D

LOL :-D
I have the largest plastic bowl I could find at the PetsAtHome, it was only £2.70!! It's very tempting to put a washing up bowl down, but he's soooo fussy, as soon as there is a morsel/hair/tiny bit of slobber in the bowl I have to clean it out, so it doesn't really matter how much water the bowl holds as I generally have to change it & re-fill half way through him drinking *rollyeyes* .
He'll happily drink muddy water from puddles in the lawn, with bits of grass and earth worms in, but tap water with a bit of kibble floating in it  NO WAY!! (food gets stuck in his lips while eating and plops out into the water bowl when he's having a drink). Bless him, he's such a weirdo!

Bloat is such a worry because it happens so quickly. :( 
Is Ruby nursing a litter?  If so, she really needs to be eating well.

> Never mind a dog bowl for a mastiff, don't you need a washing up bowl for his water?

Even for our setters we use a bucket! 

Louise, any news on Mason?

Rang the vets this morning to see how he is doing but they are busy so they said ring up later, so ill give them another try in a minute.

Ps Ruby hasnt got pups lol she is just sad and worried being his wifey.

The vet nurse said he is bright this morning hes eaten and been for a toddle. I will go get him about 6 and find out details of his medicines.

Ive soaked the kibble and it swells up to around 4 times its size, one scoop fills the entire dish.

Ive soaked the kibble and it swells up to around 4 times its size, one scoop fills the entire dish.

Frightening isn't it? :(

Hope the news is good this morning, and that he is home with you ASAP. What a worrying time for you. the Girlies and I are thinking of you.
I am lucky in having an OH who is a builder and he has build wooden box's for the girlies. They will then take the large china bowls and have a raised lip about 1 inch so they cannot lick the bowls off !!.  However water is placed on the floor and they drink out of a variety of things, a large cast iron witches cauldron ! £2.00 at a car boot holds about 2 gallons and sits in the dog room, a huge yellow bucket..sits outside by the water tap..and a large sized china bowl that lives in the hallway. I do find that I need to rinse each one out every day as they turn thier noses up at day old water. They used to drink from the half barrel fish pond (No fish,,just water lillies now) but after a small scare about lungworm (Unfounded) it has been emptied and will not be refilled...full of water snails !!! YUCK!! but it was by far the favourite drinking spot.
Does anyone else have trouble getting thier doggies to drink when out...My lot will turn thier noses up at any water offered while out and about unless it is from a river or pond. It's a nightmare on hot days at shows..I have to get a squeesy bottle of water and squirt a bit in regularly!!!
Bloat is a big risk in BMD's and I feed at least and hour before or after exersise, however they get a lot of raw and just a bit of RC on occasions and touch wood they seem to cope with it unsoaked. I have had a BMD and a GSD with bloat, they both survived but it does make you carefull. My friends Lab also had a bloat and survived.
Aileen

> The vet nurse said he is bright this morning hes eaten and been for a toddle.

Fantastic news :)

>I will go get him about 6 and find out details of his medicines.

I bet you can't wait to have him back home :)

> Does anyone else have trouble getting thier doggies to drink when out...

Yes! Even though I try to avoid taking Buster out in the heat, last week I took him out in the evening but it was still very muggy and hot. I took a bottle of water with me, offering him some from my cupped hand half way round which he refused. I tried pouring it in his mouth but he pursed his lips up tightly in refusal, he looked like he was sucking a lemon!! He only has a 40 min walk, all of that he is on a lead/long line for and he doesn't believe in using up his energy so I don't normaly take water with me, we do pass a stream but he never stops for a drink.