I am posting this on behalf of my neighbour over the road, who needs some help and advice.

She has a Staffy and EBT, her garden is securely fenced with wire mesh at the bottom of the fence panels, but accidents happen (heat has made wooden fence panels move) and her EBT managed to get through into next door's garden on Friday and attacked their JRT. Young couple next door called police and ambulance as lad got bitten breaking up fight - apparently there was blood on his arm, but probably off dogs as when cleaned up he just had one little puncture on one finger 

JRT was taken to vets, my neighbour offered to pay vets bills (expecting £100's) and it was £40 for one puncture wound in neck! Am I the only one who thinks police and ambulance was a bit OTT? Police did not take any statements and said they should have cleaned him up before calling an ambulance, and shook his head at their wasting his time, he told my neighbour there was nothing he was going to do, but warned her next door were going to try to 'milk it'.

Now, from what I've read on the internet, I have told her not to worry, it was dog-to-dog aggression and he only got bitten trying to separate them. Surely if there were any grounds for legal action the police would have done something? She is insured with More Than and has spoken to them but they said they will have to ring her back.

Please CD'ers, put my neighbour's mind at rest, she has lost half a stone since Fri and is worried sick that they will make her have her dogs PTS. The young girl next door's Dad has also said the dogs are aggressive as they bark at him when he walks up the entry to the back door and mows the lawn - my dogs bark at people at the front door but are not aggressive!

Neither the SBT or EBT have ever shown any aggression to people, neighbour has 2 kids who often have friends round etc.

I wouldnt think neighbour has a leg to stand on tbh, IF they tell the truth.

In the course of seperating two fighting dogs, one is unlikely to be sure which dogs teeth caught human skin, and theres no evidence that either dog is people aggressive. It was purely and simpley, an accident which resulted in very minor injury.

However, if they attempt to lie... and accuse the intruding dog of having attacked the lad unprovoked, different scenario - although him having merely a minor puncture wound to one finger and the ambulance and police not being interested at the time, means its not likely to go any further.

If it was... honestly, they would have to take the intruding dogs owner to court and if the police arent interested its highly unlikely they can press charges for a criminal offence (possible, but v unlikely and if they DID... its not likely to make it to court).

If they went for small claims court, im fairly sure they cant demand the intruding dog is put down, they could claim for recompense for damages done to the other dog (though since these have been offered and accepted they cant) and posssssssibly for damage done to property (other than their dog)..

I would advise neighbour to immediately strengthen fence with some fairly over-the-top extra fencing, so it can, should anything further occur, be shown that they are taking immediate action to prevent a further incident (always looks v good that).

Thanks :-)

Neighbours have repaired and strengthened fence over weekend.

Hi,
In my view, although accidents happen, your neighbour has a responsibility to ensure her dogs are under control. If I had to break up an attack on my dog in my garden by a neighbour's intruding dogs and had got bitten in the process, I would not be too happy about it. Bottom line is the dogs were where they should not have been. If your neighbour has an inkling that her dogs are dog aggressive then she needs to deal with it properly.

With respect I think you are making light of this- calling out ambulances and police may seem OTT to you, but have you tried putting yourself in the victim's shoes? A dog bite by a staff or EBT is no small matter, nor is a puncture wound to another dog.

It sounds as though the attacking dogs need some serious training around fence running. The neighbour should not have to put up with dogs barking at him every time he mows the lawn. Again your friend needs to do some serious training around this. I think that if she makes obvious efforts to show that she is addressing the problem as well as getting some much more secure fencing in place, she may be okay. But to simply accuse the people on the receiving end of her dog's behaviour of overreacting is not on.

Remember that under the DDA a person does not have to be actually attacked by a dog, to be seriously scared of the dog may be enough. I'm not saying the dogs in this case are people aggressive, but this incident will have made the neighbours very nervous, and understandably so. I doubt, in this instance there are grounds to put the dogs to sleep, but your neighbour needs to address her dogs behaviour and be seen to make great efforts to deal with it .

Sorry if I sound harsh but I think appropriate clear action will reflect better on your friend than looking for excuses.

By the way, it sounds as the dogs are getting wound up by seeing another dog through the fence and that is leading them to fence running behaviour, hence the barking at the neighbour etc.. It is not uncommon but needs to be dealt with by a behaviourist.  What if a child goes into the neighbour's garden and pokes her hand through the fence......? It's food for thought.

I'm not making light of it, and yes I would be distressed if it was me, but wouldn't have called 999 - the policeman said it was a waste of their time and the ambulance crew's time - police said they wouldn't take action, and we live literally 5 mins drive from the hospital, so a 999 call took an ambulance away from another call. When I got home and heard about it all I thought there had been horrific injuries on both sides, but I don't think one puncture wound on a dog and one on a finger warrants a 999 call requesting 2 emergency services, and I think them saying they're waiting to 'see what they're going to do about it' is quite worrying.

I would be happy with apologies, fence repairs and payment of vets bills, I would accept that it's possible to be injured breaking up a fight and wouldn't be demanding the dog be pts. The jrt doesn't live there, it's his parents dog and visits, and the couple have sold their house and will be moving soon anyway.

Rights or wrongs of my neighbours dog's behaviour/ training aside (and I don't hear them barking all day but would think it normal for them to bark if someone walks up to the back gate? The young lad's dad said it proves the dog is aggressive as it barks at him at the back gate and when he mows the lawn - I know where you're coming from about the nuisance of that but it doesn't prove it's aggressive, would you agree with that?) the question is basically - can the neighbours force her to have the dog pts against her will? This is the crux of the matter and what's she's worried about. It's never shown aggression to people before and goes in the other side neighbours garden with their lab with no problems, will try to mount her rather than bite her.

The DW could get involved and what they would say i would hazard a guess is that she needs to fix, repair and strengthen the fencing on all sides, which you say neighbour has done.
Also i would be now very mindful of these dogs barking, standing and barking is one thing but running the fence is another and that to me would not be acceptable.
You say that the Jack only visits, it may be that it too was doing something the other side of the fence which set the neighbours dog off, who knows unless we were there witnessing
The Police could of done something, though as it was on private property they would have to have the permission on your friend to seize the dog for destruction if they thought that was appropriate. Did the Police dog unit attend as they are the ones who deal with these kind of situations if a person has been bitten. But if it is the case of only a small puncture wound on the thumb/finger then i doubt anything will come of it.

The other neighbours can take this to the small claims court, but to be honest there is i doubt very little they can do only to demand that your friend/neighbour pay costs, which she has already offered.

I personally knowing what has happened would do all in my power to keep my dogs safe and prevent this from happening again and working on the behaviour of them in the garden.

I've no idea about the legal situation but I certainly wouldn't be happy if next doors' dog barked everytime I went into my garden or broke through the fence and attacked my dogs, however minor the damage.  I would be doing my best to find out what I could do to remedy this unacceptable and disruptive situation.  Sorry. :(

I wouldn't be happy either, but all I'm trying to find out for a very worried and upset neighbour is if she can be forced to have the dog pts?

I don't think they do bark every time the neighbours go into the garden - the Dad goes there to mow the lawn and as the back gates are adjoining in a narrow entry, they bark as he approaches the gates - I think mine would probably do that if they were out and someone came to our back gate. And I never said they were fence running, just that he said they barked at him which therefore proved they were people aggressive and should be pts!

Hi,

Calling 999 may indeed be OTT and inappropriate and these people may be on the make. However, they were reacting to a situation that was not of their making and that is the key. They are probably just very angry.

I don't think your friend's dogs will be put to sleep, I don't think there are grounds for it, so I think she can stop worrying.  But there is now a perception, albeit incorrect, that the dogs are aggressive and that might include people. That is why swiftly getting in expert help is the best PR your friend can do for herself. Plus it will hopefully solve the fence running aspect. The next people who move in may have a toddler, another dog, five cats- who knows. The dogs may try to get to them too. As I said, it is not an uncommon bit of dog behaviour but it needs to be dealt with. These are imposing, powerful dogs and they now have "history" in your neighbours' eyes. If your friend takes it on board and gets in the right help that will garner her points all round.

Finally, all dogs have the capacity to be "aggressive" in the right circumstances and with the right triggers. It is up to us as dog owners to try to recognise different traits in our pets and to deal with them. This incident has simply highlighted what may be a trigger area for your friend's dogs- the fence (as it is for many dogs)! What is good is that she now knows this and can now train and control them accordingly. I don't believe the dogs are people aggressive at all, but in part, this is about the people's fears and perceptions and the bad press these breeds get. I say again, rather than focussing on the rights and wrongs of her neighbour's behaviour, your friend should accept the facts: that her dogs wanted to get to the other dog and have a go and that the behaviour was very likely triggered by the fence.

I'd say to strongly advise your friends to correct the barking problem ASAP.   As the neighbors are moving - and despite what may seem as some to an over-the-top reaction to a dog fight -- the new homeowners may be much less tolerant of nuisance barking.

No way would the dogs be PTS because an owner tried to break up a dog fight.   For one thing, unless there is CCTV footage of the fight there is no way to prove which dog bit him - it could be the Jack Russel that bit him whilst aiming for one of the other dogs.

> If I had to break up an attack on my dog in my garden by a neighbour's intruding dogs and had got bitten in the process, I would not be too happy about it.

Years ago I had a neighbours dog (pit-cross apparently ) jump the fence and attack my dog, it was very, very frightening. My dog only sustained 2 puncture wounds to his neck for all the ordeal, but it really shook me, I was on my own and it never crossed my mind to 'phone the police, but I can see how people would call the police. To have somebody elses dog attack yours, in your own garden really shakes you up as you expect your dog(s) to be safe there, I couldn't stop thinkng about what could have happened if my toddler was in the garden at the time and got caught up in the fight.

To the OP, I agree with others about making sure the garden is 100% secure to prevent any further accidents and also to address the dogs barking in the garden, even if it means putting up a solid fence so the dogs can't see through and only allowing the dogs in the garden supervised.

What a horrible time for your friend and her neighbour, I hope things can be quickly resolved without too much stress.

Cairnmania, you cannot catagorically say that there is no way the dogs would be PTS because an owner tried to break up a dog fight. If a person was injured badly enough then yes the dog could be put to sleep.

This is the problem with speculating on forums about situations like this. None of us were there & the only person who can say with any certainty that there is no way  the dogs would be PTS because an owner tried to break up a dog fight, would need to be legally qualified to do so (which unless i am mistaken none of us are). To make statements as if they are a fact is both misleading and can be misconstrued very easily.

The only person who can give the OP a difinative answer to this are the local constabulary who were called in the first place & i would advise the friend of the OP to contact them for a concise and factual decision rather than relying on speculation on forums. Likewise if they took the woman to court nobody can tell you what the courts would or would not do about it unless they had been taken to court themselves over a similar incident, which again unless i am mistaken none of us have been.

Flyball,

I'm not speculating, a similar situation happened two years ago to my daughter-in-law.  Her dog got loose, attacked another dog, the owner of the other dog tried to break up the fight and sustained a small puncture wound, more like a scratch, to his hand.  She too was worried sick that her dog would be PTS. The police told her she did not need to be concerned that her dog would be PTS.  First, because it was a dog fight and there was nothing to substantiate that either dog intentionally went after the guy who tried to break it up.  Second, because in the malay there was no impartial evidence that pointed to which dog bit the owner's hand both dogs were equally suspect. 

Not particularly relevant, but daughter's dog was a Staffie and if he intended to bite anyone intentionally the end result would have been a lot more serious.   Her dog was a rescue and she rehomed it.  The dog was great with her kids but was dog-aggressive with some dogs; and she could not trust her kids to keep the door and the gate shut to prevent any further problems.  :-(

> I'm not making light of it, and yes I would be distressed if it was me, but wouldn't have called 999

Under the circumstances i can understand why the emergency services were called. We have unfortunately seen all too much of dog attacks lately in the media, some ending in fatality. Phoning for an ambulance at the sight of blood after a dog attack was IMO a sensible thing to do. Had the attack been worse the extra few minutes could have been crucial to someones life.

I agree with you Freds mum totally on this,i would have called the police if this had happened to my dogs or family without a doubt.

> Phoning for an ambulance at the sight of blood after a dog attack was IMO a sensible thing to do. Had the attack been worse the extra few minutes could have been crucial to someones life.

He had one little puncture wound on his hand, hardly life threatening, although while the ambulance crew was at the house someone else could have been having a heart attack etc. There was not a lot of blood, just a lot of panic, and they could probably have driven to A&E just as quickly. My cousin severed an artery in her wrist and didn't call an ambulance, a neighbour drove her the 2 minutes to the hospital. Even if there had been several puncture wounds I think he would have known that there was no severed artery and he wasn't actually going to bleed to death. The policeman himself said it was wasting the emergency services time.

You are totally missing the point. The size of the puncture wound is completely irrelevant.

Flyball,

The severity of the injury does come into play if someone were looking to get this dog destroyed or otherwise. The Police would potentially be looking to do something about this if it were a nasty injury especially to the face, as it is its a small puncture wound which does place bearing on this
I've had dealings with cases like this and have been learning a lot from those who actually do the seizures from homes or apply to the courts for seizures of the dogs. So i have placed on here what i know and what i have seen happen. Each case i grant you is different and you have to look at all sides of this before making any decision. Now if the Police were to do anything its more than likely that it would of been done by now. I know the dog unit in our force would look and seek to seize the dog there and then if they felt it aggressive to humans and the severity of the injuries were bad enough.

My friend is also going through a similar case with her cat being killed by her neighbours dog, she isn't seeking for the dog to be destroyed but to feel safe in her own garden.

The DDA only comes into play in a public place and back gardens of people's homes are not public places. You would be looking at a different act for this, which is only something which is recently being used by officers and DW's.

It's not irrelevant with respect to the need to call for an ambulance.   Either that happened because everyone was in a state of panic and not thinking  - or it was done purely to make a bigger deal out of it.   

I think we can assume that as the police chastised the individual for calling an ambulance that at least to them it was a clear case of misuse of emergency services. 

Plus, given it appears that these folks can get to the A&E faster by car than it would take to call the ambulance and the ambulance to arrive there; it is especially silly.

Ambulance and police really dont tend to chastise people for calling them out when they are needed.. or even when everyones not quite sure..... only when its blatantly obvious its a big fat waste of time!

I live at a similar sort of distance as the OP and her neighbour must do, from my local A&E and I can tell you, here we only call ambulances for 'life and death' and 'spurting gallons of blood and limbs hanging off'... because the ambulance station is further away than the hospital is, and you can either get there by car, or even ring a taxi faster than you can get an ambulance! (Jeez, some days youd get there by bus quicker since theres a bus that goes round the small estate here and straight to the hospital!).

It is quite obvious the event the OP recounts was an accident and  her neighbours have taken immediate action to prevent it happening again AND made good the damage by paying the other dogs vet bill. What MORE do people want?.... revenge?...

As far as I am concerned if a person chooses to dive into a dog fight, they WILLINGLY accept the risk of being bitten by either dog involved. Dont want to get bitten... don't stick your hands between fighting dogs!

Without casting any doubt, there are two sides to every story............. :)

I think calling an ambulance was over the top but I too would of called the police. As for the police telling people that it was a waste of police time, should the police be doing this? especially in earshot of others? Bit unprofessional to say the least.

Thanks everyone for your input - the victims have told neighbour they won't be taking the matter any further :-)

> the victims have told neighbour they won't be taking the matter any further

That's good news :)