As some of you know my beautiful girl gave birth to a healthy litter of 11 puppies on Wednesday. Out of the 11 5/6 were born out of their sacs and the sacs never got passed.
Since then we have been trapped in a never ending nightmare.
She hasnt stopped contracting since she whelped and the night that she had them we ended up at the vets at 3.00am her temp was 102.5 and I just wasnt happy, they ran a battery of tests and concluded that there was no stuck puppy, her calcium was fine and it was just afterpains, they gave her pethidine for the pain and we went home.
Since then I havent been happy but they kept assuring me that she had such abig litter and all good sizes that it would take a while.
Every time the pups feed it makes her contract so she hasnt really slept since Tuesday. This afternoon I really wasnt happy with her, she has refused all food and the weight has just dropped off her, she was very fincky in the last 2 weeks so had already dropped a lot more weight than I would like, but now she looks like skin and bone and it is breaking my heart.
I noticed that the pups were getting very aggressive when they were suckling and still squeeking so I made up a bottle of whelpi and after they had been on for 20 minutes took them off and offered the bottle - they went beserk for it -.between them they took about 300ml
I took her temp and it was 104.5 and I just freaked. I called out the emergency vet who palpated and said that her womb is still huge and that she has an infection.
They gave her oxytcin, an antibiotic injection and I insisted that they gave her amassive shot of painkillers. I told teh vet about the milk thing and that I thought that she hadnt got much if any, she felt her boobs and she agrees and has said that she is now so underweight it is touch and go whether we will be able to keep her milk going. We are letting them suckle to try to keep the milk supply going but we are basically hand rearing the whole litter as they are getting nothing from her.
Every time she feeds them it makes her womb contract so now she is scared of feeding them, she had a breif rally at 7.00pm when she ate a whole chicken (not the bones just the meat!) and some special high calorie dog food and she actually laid with the pups cleaning them for ages, but since then she has gone down hill again.
The vet rang me to check on her at about 7 and said that if she hadnt settled completely tomorrow they may have to spay her as they think that either her womb was too stretched by all the puppies and cant cramp down, or she cant expel the retained products. They are coming out to check her tomorrow.
I am so so upset for her and I am wracked with guilt I actually cried for the first time in years, I have only had 5 hours sleep since monday and I just keep thinking if I feel bad how must she feel?????
Has anyone ever experienced this and if you have what was the outcome? I am heartbroken.

I am just trying to catch up on posts as I haven't been on for a few days as my daughter has just had her first baby,so life is rather frantic at the moment.
I am so sorry to hear of your heart ache.It must have been a very lonely time for you when you wrote your post at after 3 in the morning.That time of the morning is a dreadful time to dwell on what ifs.Sounds like your vet is now on the ball,and I sincerely hope you have a happy ending,even if it means an emergency spaying.I haven't had any experience with dogs that have had post whelping problems,only with one of our cats that had an emergency spay after an infection set i but she recovered well.
Best wishes and fingers crossed.Jude.

I am so sorry to hear of your problems. Can I say something you may not want to hear. I wouldn't let the pups take the milk off her if she is so ill. If she has a severe infection she may be passing any infection onto the pups through the milk. I know of someone who lost all but one of a very large litter due to this. The toxins wee just too much for the pups. :-( I know it means that you will have to hand rear the basbies, but surely that is far better than losing them all.

I do hope that she makes a full recovery, and that the pups survive. Do you have people to help you hand rear?

Goodness, I'm so sorry to hear about your dreadful time. We've never experienced this so no advice I'm afraid. Just wanted to wish you well and hope that your beautiful girl will turn the corner now. All the best with her pups too. x

So very sorry for you. Reading your post made me cry, I am sat here with my girl who is due next Saturday and hope and pray she is ok. When we enter into the world of breeding we way up the positive and negatives and in our case I hope for many positives. So good luck and best wishes for your girl and her babies. Take care you are in my thoughts. X X X

I had an agonising situation two years ago. My girl was having her third and final litter. Previously she had whelped two healthy litters of six pups in each litter. This third pregnancy progressed very well and by week 8 she looked the same familiar size and shape that 6 or more pups would suggest. By week 9 she looked different. A sort of different that instinctively suggested something was wrong, not just that the pups had dropped ready for birth. She gave birth to three beautiful pups out of their sacs and we waited for these sacs and 'the remaining pups' to follow. Nothing. The pups started to suckle well, but Mum was running a high temperature and was vey unsettled.
I took her to the vet immediately who told me everything was fine and she would pant and seem uncomfortable for the next few days. I wasn't happy and knew something more sinister was going on. That evening I went back to the surgery and they prescribed some antibiotics 'in case of any infection'. By this time she was very smelly and to me it seemed obvious that my girl was very poorly. They had done the calcium tests, felt for remaining pups etc and sent us home again. When we got home, the smell got worse and her discharge started to show some pus and I put a nappy on her to try and mask the smell. I rang the animal hospital telling them the story so far and we were told to attend straight away. My girl was examined and admitted immediately. They opened her up to find sites of decaying pups and masses of black pus. She was saved just in time. The pups had to be without Mum for two or three days but after that they were all reunited and Mum was soon back to her old self albeit stitched up and spayed. We had started to hand rear the litter and Mum cleaned and toileted them before we fed them. She seemed to know she had a limit to what she could do with this litter.
Go with your instincts. I only had three pups to rear so you will need a lot of support but you can do it. Don't wait if you feel your girl needs further treatment or examination. I was fobbed off by two different vets. Why do they do this? Best wishes to you and your girl.

oh cheadlelass i'm so sorry, you must be so upset. i am sure your girl will be ok as your vet seems quite with it from what you've said.

its a hefty litter to have to had rear but at least they are keen for the hand feeding. you might though want to do a seperate post maybe to look for a surrogate bitch in your area? just a thought.

thinking of you. please let us know how its going.

Hold on there! you must be exhausted. I wonder if there is a pup left? or afterbirth? I would not be suprised! If there is, she will not settle. After pains yes! but! after her pethidine injection she should have calmed down and eat. Give her puppy milk as much as she can drink. I would feed her anythink she will eat. what every it is. I have heard of this. It was a remaining puppy. But! an afterbirth can do the same. If not expelled can cause an infection. It is the same in women.
You need an experienced breeder of your breed of dog to tell you if this is known in your breed. Vets are for medical conditions. Not so experienced in breeding, unless they are also breeders.

Denese

Can't offer any practical suggestions as I've never bred a litter, but just wanted to offer support - and to say that if you aren't happy go back to your vet, or a different vet, or a different practice. Keep pestering until they do something. You know your own dog and will instinctively know if things aren't right with her.

Hi
I feel so sorry for you and your poor girl .
Maybe it IS worth putting a plea on here for help via a surrogate .If you post your area perhaps someone with a small litter may be able to take some of yours , Hand rearing 11 will be a huge task for you .
Not sure what your breed is but in this case surely admin will let you tell us if it will get help for you .
Thinking of you
Sally

I have never bred and don't even have a dog at the moment so i am in no position to offer advice , however ,having read your post  if she were mine i would be looking to have her opened up and investigated . Go with your gut instinct , you know your dog best .

Hope you have better news for us soon .  XXX

I am the first to advocate mum's milk is best, but do you know cheadlelass the bitch comes first, always comes first, if your bitch is so thin, so much in pain and so tired then forget the feeding, let your bitch get well, put on some weight and hand rear the litter as best as you can, nothing would make me put pressure on my bitch if she was so ill it was going to be touch and go.

Honestly if a vet told me it was touch and go as to whether my bitch would recover then the pups would be off her quick as a flash and I would give her every opportunity to be able to fight for her life, the pups feeding from her will drain her resources. 

I have my fingers crossed and hope and pray that your girl will pull through.

Cant offer any real advise on your problem but just wanted to offer support, you know your bitch better than any vet so if you feel things are not right go with your instinct and seek another vets opinion or demand they look more into the problem.
Good luck with mum and pups, sending hugs to you all xxx

i too agree with kristy ,i do hope your girl picks up very soon , and good luck with all 11 babys keep ya chin up sounds like your going through hell at the moment i do feel for you and the lack of sleep is the worst ever xx

Just wanted to say how sorry I am to hear of your situation - it is every breeders nightmare -I do hope your bitch pulls through it all unharmed and  good luck with bottle feeding the pups - is there any one you can farm out a couple of pups to and  lighten the load a little - an experienced breeder who may be willing to help ?

Good luck

Yvonne

Not experienced enough to offer any help, just sending huge hugs and every good wish for a full recovery for your lovely girl.

Thankyou for your help and advice.
The vet came out yesterday and gave ger a different shot of antibiotics, more painkillers and also did an antibacterial wash on her womb, he said that they normally only do it on cow/sheep etc but as she is such a large breed they would try it on her. As far as we know she has passed 3 of the misssing placentas but in the drama of the whelping ,as I was alone I lost count of exactly how many came out with their sacs and how many didnt, the problem I was having was that most out of their sacs were tail presentation and as their legs came out the cords snapped and it was taking her a while birthing them so they needed a fair bit of work to get them going, it felt like no sooner had I got one going than another was being born, I know there are more than three though.
The vet is adamant that the xray showed no signs of another pup, and basically said that if this doesnt work they will have to admit her. The problem is she gets very very distressed when she isnt near me and she is doing her best with the puppies as she still wants to care for them, so I know that she will be beside herself if they admit her.
She does seem slightly better today, i sat crying emptying out the whole of my fridge last night trying to find something that she would eat and eventually she decided that she would eat some honey roast ham, we will be stocking up accordingly today.
Today is the decider, if she hasnt massively turned a corner she will be admitted for intravenous medication.
My first priority is her, i am coping with the hand rearing and they are doing better now than they were when mum was trying to feed them, the problem is she WANTS to be with them if I am feeding them, and the minute she lies down they are all over her, but she cries if I have one of them and she isnt laid down with the rest.As long as I am not with them she is quite happy sleeping outside, but I cant leave the litter on their own all the time.She is quite happy to toliet some of them which takeds the pressure off and hopefully keeps the bond there
Noone that I know who breeds has a litter at the moment, but I am getting by, it might be simpler if she wasnt so clumsy bless her, as I could sleep between the feeds, but she does have an alarming habit of sitting on them when she gets stressed and sits up.Dh took one of the watches so I got a couple of hours sleep which helps
One of the pups actually lost weight yesterday after gaining well the day before, so I have got him on special watch- he was our firstborn so he is quite special to me.
When the vet has been out again I will lwt you know what is happening.

I am so sorry to read this - I saw your earlier - excited posts and was waiting for news.
I'm sorry I can't offer any help but just want to pass you my best wishes and hope you get some help soon maybe to foster some pups and give mum a rest.

Good luck

AM

I'm so sorry to hear about your bitch.  I can really offer any advise as I think if I was in this situation I would listen to my vets.  my thoughts are with you at this time and I hope your bitch and puppies are all in full health in no time. 

My fingers are crossed for you.

I just want to offer my best wishes to you and hope eveything turns out well in the end for you and your bitch.

Fingers crossed your girl gets better soon. Has your vet ultrasound scanned or Xrayed to look for any debris/ dead pups? I just wondered, as that was something you hadn't mentioned (or if you have I have missed - apologies if so).

Im so sorry to read this post. After all the excited posts we all read together while waiting for the birth. I truly hope that Daisy gets well. If you have got lactol or whelpie in the house then give her as much as she will take, even if you have to syringe it into her mouth. Possibly easier said than done with her breed size though. Go with your own gut instinct and insist to the vet that she is seen to properly even if she has to be spayed. I wish you all the luck in the world and fingers crossed that both mum and pups are ok. Try and get some rest if you can.

Thinking of you :-) I really hope it all turns out ok for you. 

Daisy is much better!! She turned the corner late morning and sniffed at some ham that was offered to her, she thne wolfed down the whole pack! She just got steadily better and better, she even wanted to go for a gentle stroll sown the lane with her dad, and I have to say her tail was wagging for the first time in days when she came back!
The vet is still coming out to give her injections as I am not prepared to risk changing any of her treatment as it seems to be working so well now and it is a comfort that she gets checked every day (my bill is going to be huge!)
They did an xray the night that she whelped and they couldnt see any pups, so the vet thinks it is just the placents etc from the pups born out of the sacs. When he came out yesterday he was thrilled with how much better she looked, and then scared me stupid by telling me how close we came to losing her.... She is still very very picky about what she will eat, at the moment she will only eat ham or sausages, not even chicken or mince, but to be honest as long as she is eating, right now I really dont care.She wont drink the whelpi or even think about dog food, but I am sure that will come with time.
Her milk supply is still very low, but she likes getting in the box (only for brief periods though) and letting them suckle, so we are still handrearing them, but trying to keep that bond there between her and the pups. She isnt particularily maternal towards them, though to be fair in her situation, I dont think I would be either!
The little one that I was worried about yesterday rallied round when we put him on antibiotics and syringe fed him for a few hours, he is much better today., and very much enjoyed being tucked into my boobs for the afternoon to keep him warm!
It is tiring, but to be honest I am finding it immensly rewarding, and that coupled with the huge responsibility I feel towards the little lives that I brought into the world makes it all worthwhile!

Ah I have been reading this and couldn't make comment as it was such a dire time for you.....I am pleased that Daisy is back on track (even if you are hand rearing them) better that than loosing your precious girl. It just goes to show you that breeding isn't always easy and that these things can happen to the best of us. Daisy is just lucky that she has such a caring family around her. I hope that she gains strength by the day and makes a full recovery in no time. Make sure that you are also getting rest as you won't be any help to daisy and the litter if you are tired out :-) Take care

Very pleased to read this good news this morning. Well done all of you and I hope all goes well now x x

Soooo glad to hear she has turned the corner.Well done you and mum.

So glad it's going so much better. Take care of yourself too if you can.

Hi Cheadlelass,
Pleased things are on the move, have you taken the ends off the pups nails? just so they don't make mom sore. I would keep feeding them, then put them on mom let them suck and let her clean them. You could do with someone doing a couple of hours in the day so you could rest. If you havn't got one, borrow a baby alarm and put in the welphing box. So when you go anywhere you can hear them wake or if she stands on one.
I would start weaning them a little early from 2weeks with welphing milk and readybrek.
Keep it up girl you are doing it!!!

Denese

Hi Cheadless, all I can say is well done and keep up the good work. it's amazing where the strength comes from and I'm sure you can do it. Lucky Mum and pups.

Thats great news!!!

Hi cheadleass im so glad your girl as turn a corner and things are looking up ,well done done you !! ,and i wish you all the luck in the word she goes from strenth to strenth xx

Hi Cheadlelass

Just read all the posts and I'm so pleased Daisy is feeling a bit better.
Have you tried her on goats milk it has lots of calories and will not upset her stomach,this is something my vet recomended years ago and has always worked for me when I have had a dog of its food for any reason,I pop it in microwave for a few seconds just to take the chill off it.

So glad to hear things are on the up for you, breeding is a lot scarier than most people think ;)

Try to snatch little catnaps - I find they help enormously ;)

Great news Cheadlelass. Well done.!!!

I'm so relieved that your girl seems to have turned the corner... I have a litter of 2 weeks old and I can't imagine how exhausted you must feel with that many pups to keep going as well as your girl who was so very ill!!

I hope and pray she goes from strength to strength and all pups survive... that's the least you deserve with all you've been through!