What would you say the max age is  for a bitch to have her first litter ?

I know it is not acceptable by the KC to breed after the age of 8 yrs but is it harder to breed over 4 years for the first time ???

Does age make a difference in certain breeds due to the age that certain breeds  mature ?

I wouldn't mate a bitch over 3 years, certainly not 4, for her first litter.  I also find that bitches have found whelping more difficult as they age, even if they have had a litter before.

Last year one of my girls had her first litter at the age of 3 years 2 months, she whelped the easiest/quickest and was the best mum ever

My seven year old Papillon had her first litter one month before her 4th birthday and her second litter 21 months later.  She had no problems whelping any of her pups.  Three in the first litter and four in the second.  Like breeding at 7 years + of age some people will and some won't, all depends on the health and wellbeing of the bitch at the time of the decision being made.

Would say that it is not normal to leave it so long.  I just never had need to breed from her before that.  And her daughter who turned three in March will be mated on her next season in September.  Again not for any particular reason other than didn't want pups from her before this.  Only breed when I want a pup.  Though with all the pups for sale at the moment makes me hesitate, even though I have people waiting for a pup from her.  (If she has anymore than 2 that is) LOL  :)

Were planning to mate our giant breed bitch in Spring 2010, she'll be 3.5yrs, thats if she ever decided to come into season!!
Friends of mine have mated maiden bitches when 5yrs, but has taken alot out the bitches, and they seem to age very quickly after whelping.

I think much depends on breed and individual lines within breeds as well as the physical condition of the bitch  :)   My girl had her 1st litter at 4.5 yrs and shelled them like peas, was a terrific mum and back in fab condition - good enough for the showring - within 5 months.  She had her second and final litter two months after her 8th birthday and there was no difference between litters (except the last one was a larger litter!) for health, whelping, maternal instinct, and recovery to pre-mating condition :)

One of my males (same breed) was the result of a first litter from a bitch who was 7yrs - again, no probs during gestation, whelping, rearing or recovery.

In my breed epilepsy can be a problem - albeit to a lesser degree in my variety in recent years - but often this doesn't come to light until 5+ years by which time one or more litters could have been produced so, providing the dam is in excellent physical condition, I see no need to rush into breeding my particular breed but can't comment on others.

I still haven't mated by champion bitch and she's just turned 5 years.

regards, Teri

The owner of a bitch that I bred has just had her girls first litter at four and they were born easily and she's been a great mother.  As the breed lives between 12-14 years on average and the grandmother to the girl passed away at 15 I had no worries, especially as they seem a fit healthy breed.

I really don't think you can have one age fits all.

Thanks everyone for your replys
It seems that there is no real rush to breed at 2+ years old and it is more so  depending perhaps on breed, condition, and how mature they are?

I was just interested as have been doing a bit of reading on breeding and wanted real opinions from people who have experience as you all have had  on CD.

Do you think some breeders start at 2 years so that they can get as many pups from a bitch as they can ?
with my 2 JRT's I had a litter from them when 1 was 3 and the other 4 both of them started well enough but ended up needing a C - section but recovered really well with no complications and all of their pups were born fine not one pup was lost thank goodness ( have a really good vet too who was great especially as one litter had to be taken down to surgery at 2.30 am )

I will not let them have another litter though 

1. because of the dog situation at the moment
and
2. because I would be worried they would need a C- section again even though that would not neccesarily be the case.

>It seems that there is no real rush to breed at 2+ years old

Absolutely not. In many breeds that's the absolute minimum age for mating, not the ideal for a first litter. I have a medium-sized breed and think 3 years is reasonable for a first litter, but not more than 5 years. But this is a breed that's still in its prime at 8 years old.

> Do you think some breeders start at 2 years so that they can get as many pups from a bitch as they can ?

Most definitely NOT!

I would never breed from my main breed after 4-5 years of age maximimum.  I like a first whelping before they are 2 years old if possible.  But if anyone suggested that I did it to get as many as litters as possible, I would be absolutely livid.

Having bred from a bitch at 3 years for the first time, I would never, ever do it again.  So,,  I guess it depends on the breed more than anything else. 

And I never, ever consider a second litter from any bitch that needed a section the first time around.

That is why I am glad I have asked this question as some of the books on breeding tell you   can breed starting at 2 yrs old.

I think myself it will vary as my mums dog , she is not going to breed , has just started to "fill out " and mature and she is 3 yrs old Where as her mother , my dog ,matured and filled out quicker. Still did not have a litter from her till shewas 3 though.

Was not meaning responsible breeders starting there dogs of at 2 yrs I was meaning people who are in it for the money and call themselves breeders.

Sorry should have worded that better.

No I wont be letting my 2 have any more pups I felt so sorry for them waking up with all these wee things wanting to be fed even though they took to them  straight away and were great mums. I think really I was the most traumatised out of everyone !!!:) I never got pampered afterwards as they did !!! the stress !!!!

Casie, her first litter was this one, and she is 6 years old.  She had been mated before, and we totally believe she was pregnant last time she was mated, but didnt carry the litter because she was attacked by a dog. 

Cher, this is her first as well, and she is 3 years old.  I plan on one more litter from her, and it will probably be when she is 4.5 years old. 

Some breeders that I know, will mate a bitch second season (which is about a year and a half old) and I wouldnt do that.  But they do, and they claim its because when they get older, you get lesser quality pups.  Well, looking at Casie, her pups are spectacular and she is older.  So it doesnt hold true.  I think they want to make themselves feel better about breeding a bitch that young. 

>I like a first whelping before they are 2 years old if possible.

It certainly varies from breed to breed. In my breed it's against the clubs' code of ethics for a bitch to whelp before she's 2 years old.

> It certainly varies from breed to breed. In my breed it's against the clubs' code of ethics for a bitch to whelp before she's 2 years old.

I wish that was the rule for my club, actually I would 'up' it another year to 3.    As a medium/large gundog breed I don't think they are anyway near mature enough until 3 but yet one bitch has been mated at 19 months (Our 'guidelines' do state 20 months) which I feel is so young - only one month out of junior!   Why the rush?  

As we now have problems with ED where we have dogs x-rayed at a year coming back with 0 scores but still having the condition or dogs coming back affected yet another from the litter will be bred from, I really do think the LMC need to take a long look at implemeting some stringent rules.

It is recommended in my medium size breeds Breed clubs code of ethics,  that a bitch should have her first litter before she is five years of age.

>I wish that was the rule for my club, actually I would 'up' it another year to 3.

At one point the rule was that a bitch shouldn't be mated before 2 years, but then it was relaxed to whelping before 2. I voted against the change at the AGM, but the result went the other way. There's democracy for you!

My bitch just had her first litter at age 2 years 5 months. She is a medium/large gundog breed and the main reason for her having a litter at this age is I'd ideally have a pup from her next litter around 4 - 5 years of age. We're now keeping a bitch as my daughter is keeping one which is great for us, such a super litter I wouldn't have been able to pass up the opportunity!! So now we can keep one ourselves from her next litter and we have one from this.

I would never have risked her having her first litter at age 4 - 5. Like a middle-aged woman having a baby for the first time. My bitch is really fit and she whelped a litter of 11 with no help, no problems, and has recovered very quickly too. I know there was an element of luck factored into her problem-free whelping but I think her age definitely helped!

> first litter at age 2 years 5 months

> problem-free whelping but I think her age definitely helped

I agree, I like them to have a first litter at about 2 years if possible. I think they're more flexible then and more likely to have an easier time.