Hi everyone
just wanted peoples opinions....pup had his 1st vaccination monday..2nd one is booked for a week on tuesday..he will be 10 weeks old.
I've never had a pup have his 2nd jab before it was 12 weeks old...is this a new vaccine or just a different way of using the same one?? Would you have a pups 2nd vaccination at 10 weeks or wait till 12??
Just wondering with all the debate at the min about vaccinations.
Thanks,
Archer

Hi Archer,
I did get Buster fully vaccinated before he was 12 weeks old.  He had no problems at all, but I do not use yearly boosters, I now use homeopathic tablets instead.  I do feel it's important to get the puppy shots done though.

Hi Archer my vet has always given vaccines at 8 and 10 weeks and we have had no problems. Gillian

no it has been known for 8weeks then 10 weeks!

Personaly i have them done and 10 and 12 but thats just the way I do it!

Hi Archer, here`s a couple of links with recommended vacc protocols info :)

http://www.noofies-zoo.com/schultzvaccinations.pdf
http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/vaccine-protocols.html

Christine, Spain.

I know that some vets are different. Where I live there are two vet practises, One does the 2nd vacc at 10wks and the other does it at 12wks. Dont know why they're different, dont think there is any real reason either probably just a matter of preference for the vet.

kat

Mine has always done the first at ten and the second at 12 because that is when the feel that the maternal antibodies wear off and that the vaccination is unlikely to take before then.

My vet would only do the second vacination at 12 weeks, according to them if you have it done sooner it does not take properly. Apparently it does not matter when the first is done but second has to be after 12 weeks.
Sure when we had our first dog she had her's done at 8 and 10 weeks, but maybe it has changed since then. We have also changed vets though so maybe it depends on the vet.

My vet also says the second shouldn't be done before 12 weeks. Catherine O'Driscoll, who isn't keen on vaccination as a rule, says that the first should not be administered before 8 week, because maternal immunity will neutralise the vaccine.

hI,

My latest pup was vaccinated at 6 wks 5 days and his second is due 10 wks.
The vaccine is Duramune which unlike some of the other vaccines protects against
Coronavirus.This additional protection helps broaden the control of infections causing diarrohea and other digestive upsets.It has been available in other countries for several years and their safety clearly demonstrated following the use of several million doses of vaccine.
Duramune has been shown to stimulate higher levels of neurrolsing antibbodies of
Parvo adenovirus and Distemper than the older generation vaccines.
The Durameune primary course of vaccination can be completed from 10 wks of age
BUT can also be started at 6 wks of age for all fractions.
This is my first pup to use this vaccine it has not long come out,I believe its now avilable for the vets to get hold of,my own is ordering some in he is also quite excited about it.

Regards Briony:-)

My pup has also  been vaccinated at 6 weeks with Duramune & will be done again at 10 weeks. No ill-effects (so far!)

Hi briony, where did you get your info for the corona vaccine? According to J Dodds/Charmichael/Shultz etc what you are saying about the corona virus vaccine is the opposite to what they sat about it, they say it`s totally unnecassary. Don`t know where you`ve got this info from but all the reseacrh I`ve done on it says it`s ineffective & shouldn`t be given as it effects pups under 8wks of age???
Need to see some links to verify the info you are giving supporting what you say about it please. :) Thanks.

Christine, Spain.

Hi,

My information comes from Duramune backed up from my breeders vet and my own.
Breeders vet in Scotland and my own here in Lincolnshire.
Liverpool Univirsity had done a study and found that 25% of diarrhoea samples submitted by vets contained Coronvirus some of the dogs were so badly affected
they died.

There was a Parvo outbreak in the area that my pup was born my breeder herself a vetinary nurse wanted to give the pups the Duramune vaccine which can be safely given at younger age to cover her pups .This vaccine also provides immunity against not only Parvo but Caroavirus as well.
From what I understand of Coronavirus it affects all ages of dogs
and the signs are
Tiredness,weight loss and depression progressing to diarrohoea,this is usually foul smelling yellow-orange and may contain blood and mucous.In severe cases electrolyte imbalances and weight loss occur.
My pup here is extrmely healthy and to date no side effects.As far as i'm concerned the Duramune vaccine was given to the pups  because of the outbreak and it could be safely given at that age it just so happens this particular vaccine also provides immunity to this Caronvirus.

Briony :-)

Hi,

Maybe i'm looking at the wrong sites ? but I can't find a site saying its unnecessary in fact on the web Duramune is mentioned as a safe vaccine to be given all I typed in was Coronavirus in Dogs.

I might ring Fort Dodge Animal Health makers of the vaccine.

Christine have you found a site saying otherwise I would be interested,as I say its the first time I had a pup using this vaccine so good or bad I would be interested
:-)

Briony

Hi Briony, couple of links below about it :)

http://www.ivis.org/advances/Infect_Dis_Carmichael/schultz/chapter_frm.asp?LA=1
http://www.ivis.org/advances/Infect_Dis_Carmichael/pratelli/chapter_frm.asp

Christine, Spain.

another one http://www.northernlight-uk.com/cyd_11.htm

Hi Christine,

Interesting, I'm passing info on to various vets and Duramune themseleves will get back when I have more info.

Briony:-)

Hi Christine,

The first site you list was last updated 5th May 2000 can't find date for your 3rd site,not sure yet whether these sites have got the current information  on the caraoavirus with regarding Duramune and its effectiveness.

Briony:-)

Hi Christine,

I have just spoken to the vaccine company,and the information on the links given
is not up to date and are looking into the links themselves now.

Regards Briony:-)

Hi Briony, heres the link for the AAHA with the full report on vaccs. It`s dated 2003 & I believe the most up to date info on animal vaccs there is on the web, at least with access for ordinary folk :) Don`t know really what you expect the vacc manu to say about it tho, remember they`ve got a very vested interest in the vaccs, they`re selling them! :D

http://www.dogs4sale.com.au/AAHA_Special_Report.htm
And here`s a link for who the American Animal Hospital Association are :)

http://www.aahanet.org/About_aaha/About_Foundation.html

Christine, Spain.

Hi Christine,

Thanks for the above info .I spoke with the senior research vet this morning and he concludes the info on the web is out of date.he is currently at a conference on vaccines all this week so I was extremely impressed he took the trouble to call me back at home.
He has asked me for these various websites to be faxed to him which I have and he will get back to me in a week to 10 days.
Speaking to several other vets they all concluded that Duramune is a very safe and effective vaccine well trialed in the U.S.
We have to be very careful just how accurate info on the web is and who exactly is putting it on,some articles are put to cause trouble,and alot vets agree to find accurate info you contact the source directly that really applies to anything.
I'll fax these latest 2 sites to him.

Regards Briony:-)

Hi Briony, for me to make a decision on things like vacc I make sure as best I can to check recheck & recheck continually, and then I just pass the links with the info on to anyone who`s intereted. :)
Her`s where you`ll find some of the names who are mentioned.

http://bakerinstitute.vet.cornell.edu/research/emeritus/carmichael_bio.html
http://www.vetmed.wisc.edu/people/ronald%20d%20schultz
http://www.foxfirepublishing.com/doddsbio.html
[link]http://www.vet.purdue.edu/epi/ltg.htm[link]

And a link about what happened to a litter of pups after using fort dogde vaccs, not scientific tho ;) :)

http://www.britfeld.com/vaccine-fd-final.htm

By the way who`s the senior research vet your talking to & where`s he from?

Christine, Spain.

Hi Christine,

Yes there was a problem at Fort Dodge where was a bacterial problem in the plant they had to completely disinfect the whole processing plant twice
Duramune has only been able to be given out in the last 6 months.
The problem wasn't actually  on the vaccine itself.
The side effects are uncommon with only 2 reports per 100,ooo doses .
The senior vet I spoke with was actually at the conference  and at the end of the call forgot to ask his name ,but I need to speak with them tomorrow so I can get his name then.He also sending me some bedtime reading when he comes back.
I to know of litter with side effects from using Panacur.There is always the possibility of possible side effects but in this vaccine its extremely low and for the first time in the UK protection against Coronavirus.
I'm also contacting Liverpool Univirsity who had done a study on Coronavirus in this country and what they found.
So any info is useful and will be passed on.

Briony:-)

But surely in a new vaccine any reactions would be minimal due to the short time of its use Briony? And why would there be a need for a corona vacc when experts are saying it`s unecessary anyway? As you say, gotta be careful with what you read on the net & until I see published reports of tests & trials(and believe me any such trials are few & far between) from other expert vets I`ll trust the ones that have published their studies & findings for now :)

Christine, Spain.

Got knocked off so too late to edit my last post! Briony ask your researcher for his upto date info please, I`d like to see what new evidence he has that refutes what`s on the net, suspect the people who wrote it might also like to see it as well. What studies has he/they done & when, has it been published, when & where? Where are the studies done by L/pool uni? To make claims like you`re saying he is by saying it`s out of date he has to have new evidence that has been peer reviewed & published, like all the info I`ve passed on has been :)

Christine, Spain.

Hi Christine,

They supply their references on all their leaflets on advice on Duramune which is available to all vets in the UK.

Their address is Fort Dodge Animal Health
                      Flanders RD,
                      Southampton
                      SO30 4QH

Briony, fort dodge are not independent, they`re the makers of the vacc for goodness sake!!! All manus say much the same, they`re selling it, it`s a sales pitch, nothing more & as with all sales you should read the small print.
Go & read what Merials blurb says, ask me & I`ll tell you first hand what their vacc did to my pups & there`s no mention of what it can do either. Or do a search on here for vaccine reaction in lab pups & read what Merial had to say. The people I`ve give you links to are independent of vacc manu with no axe to grind at all :)

Christine, Spain

Hi Christine,

As far as i'm concerned i'm quite happy with Duramune so far i've not read anything
that suggests its unsafe.While I accept I've spoken to the vaccine company themselves and obviously they like their product and I know they are the makers of the vaccine:-) I started asking questions there first.
My intial search on the web did not suggest it was unsafe while i'm always dubvious about what gets put over the web i'm trying to get replies directly from the horses mouth so to speak.
I would have thought Fort Dodge would not be so stupid to supply vets across the country with information and references they could not support about their vaccines they do list all there references.
However I an interested in the study completed at Liverpool Univirsity on the Coronavirus findings.
However I accept you don't like this vaccine thats fine,at present I don't have any concerns about using it  so I guess like in all things what suits one person may not suit another.

Briony:-)

Hi,

Forgot to mention Duramune is new to the Uk,but not in the US where it is well trialed.

Briony:-)

a few points to mention here - vets only vaccinate with vaccines according to manufacturers instuctions so if it says 8 and 10 weeks then thats what they recommend nobivac vaccines are designed to start at 8 weeks and finish at 10 weeks to enable correct socialisation times as the optimum time for socialistation is 11-14 weeks, the second thing i picked up on is the breeder mentioning outbreak of parvo and wanting to get pups vacc early??? if your bitch is vacinated then the pups will be protected through maternal immunity till at least 8 weeks when you start your vaccine courses - the first vaccine then interferes with maternal immunity so that the 2nd part of the vaccine boosts it up so then they are protected. Coronavirus is a disease that has been affecting alot of puppies this year but it is usually not fatal if treated, it is only fatal if combined with another virus such as parvo but of course if you puppy is vaccinated then it won't get it. Coronavirus has been found in 90% of the doggy population so my question would be if your puppy is already carrying the virus then what does the vaccine do???? surely it can only protect those animals that havn't got it? and if my reading is right most dogs have it anyway and they only suffer with it in periods of stress. Is it not just another vaccine to bombard our dogs immune system with? and as with all vaccines you will get some animals who get side effects.

Hi was told by my vet that they can vaccinate for parvo from 6 weeks and I believe this is what guide dogs have before they go to their puppy walkers.Gillian

My pup was vaccinated at 8 weeks 3 days hes booked in for the next in 2 weeks time apparently its a new vaccine.I thought this was alot sooner than my last pup 18 months ago.

Hi Briony, the trouble all along is that there are only a very few independent rsearch studies been done on vaccs, most vets only know what manus tell them & if the vaccs have a license for it then thats it. If Fort Dodge have new evidence on the corona virus why aren`t they publishing it? It`s not a case of I don`t like this particular vacc, after reading independent studies from experts about the corona virus I think it`s unecessary.
Another bit about manus, they insist on saying there is a need for anual boosters when none of them have any scientific evidence to justify them.

Christine, Spain.

Hi Christine,

I'm very interested in the Coronavirus I do not have all the facts about it which is why im interested.
All I can say is at the moment I would be happy to use Duramune, my new boys whole litter was done no ill effects.
Boosters I not sure about.My vet only boosters every other year.
However at present time I will continue to vaccinate and booster  all my dogs because for me personally I feel a vaccination reaction (which is possible which ever vaccine you use)is very small compared to picking one of the horrible diseases.
Nothing can be 100% as dogs are all individuals.
My brother cannot have the Tetanus vaccine as he reacts so badly however the rest of the family have had it no problems and all my children have had it no problems and my brothers children have had the Tetanus vaccine no problems.

Certainly because we also show around the country I would not take an unvaccinated dog to a show or one that wasn't up to date on its boosters.

Just my personal opinion here, what do others feel ?

Briony:-)
h

For 30 years, I vaccinated all my puppies but never had any boosters.  That was done with (private) information given to me by my employer - my Vet! 
In 1996, because of personal experience, I stopped vaccinating altogether, and since then have used nosodes.  It was one of the most difficult decisions that I've ever had to make, but having made it, I'm very happy with it!
I'm sure that we'll never all agree but we must all do what we think is best for our dogs!!

Hi Archer, getting back to the original questin (although the above posts are very interesting)  I went to an Intervet seminar a couple of years ago, held in conjuction wiht the NCDL and a Police Dog Trainer.  It was to introduce the first (to the UK) Vaccine which could be used to give the 2nd vaccination at 10 days, and was safe to take the pups out straight after.  Very interesting presentation on the advantages of early socialistion with input from NCDL behaviourist and Police Dog guy.  However, not a lot of scientific data on the safety of the vaccine.  When I discussed it wiht my vet the next week (having been 'sold' on the concept at the seminar) she asie the company had sent her all the bumff, which she had read carefully, and had then rang to clarify some facts.  She came to the conclusion that until they had hard scientific evidence about why this vaccine was safe and had immediate action she would not use it.  Have talked about it with her a coujple of times since and she still believes in sticking to her usual supplly and the lastt one at 12 weeks method. 

However, yesterday was talking to a friend who is getting a pup (7 weeks when collects on Wednesday) and they say they are using a new vaccine which only requires one shot, which can be given between 6 to 8 weeks.  I was dubious and a bit worried, they cant remember the name of it but have promised to give me details when they get back from the Vet - anyone heard of this wonder pro9duct?
bye
Gwen

Hi Christine,I'm not sure if you're still available for advice as the last posting i see here is 2004!I was advised to ask you whether you think or know if the first year booster vaccine is safe.I was looking at Perry's website and there were very sad stories there of dogs who suffered terribly and died after having an adverse reaction to the vaccine.Also my girl is scheduled to be speyed at the same time as the booster ia due-would it be o k to have them done together?

Christine hasn't posted on here in a long time :-(

Have we heard from her since she went to Spain?   I can't remember.

yes, she posted from Spain for a while,

I spoke to her about 18 months or so ago but haven't heard from her for a while now. So why aren't you doing your decorating :-)

I think there was a lot of illness in her family, wasn't there?

> I spoke to her about 18 months or so ago but haven't heard from her for a while now. So why aren't you doing your decorating

Displacement therapy :o)

I think there was a lot of illness in her family, wasn't there?

Yes JG - the last time I spoke to her things were not going so well :-(