Hi everyone,

I haven't been on for a while as iv been busy with kids and work.  Now tho' im gonna make time for this great site......

I have a beautiful 1 year old Newfy called 'Ralph'.  We love him sooooo much,  I have had him to 4 different training schools for various things and some have worked a treat.  The one thing we can not get him out of is 'lunging'.  He is terrible if anyone stops me for a chat whilst im walking him, I have to stand a good few feet apart from them as he just wants to jump up all the time, it's awfully embarrassing and it is terribly stressful for me and my OH.  Also we can not let him off the lead in a park, as the first thing he wants to do is hump anything in sight and take over.  He is a loose cannon off the lead so no more.  Its a shame such a large powerful dog has all this energy and we can't let him off.

This is our 3rd newf and (it maybe us getting older!!) but Ralph is very lively - more lively than my last 2!! - I can't believe the schools we've been to can't help us, they just told us not to bring him anymore as he takes no notice of me and just wants to hump/play with the other dogs,  so im at a loss now!!

I have him on a good lead and a dog matic soft halti so iv more control of him.  He's a beautiful black diamond of a dog he is great with the kids, he is totally part of our family but this jumping and lunging is getting us down so much, I feel as tho' iv gone a couple of rounds with Ricky Hatton after iv been out with him.  Don't get me wrong, he's great walking on the lead it's when someone stops me or he sees a cat or another dog.

Can anyone tell me what to do, iv tried everything and really can not afford a professional trainer at this stage, I don't want to put anything round his neck to 'electricute' him and that water spray, iv had that and that doesn't work, also that can that makes a high hissing sound, that doesn't work either!!!!

im lost really I love him soooo much and so does our family, and you wouldn't think he is like this outside when you see him at home with my family - there must be something can be done!!!! at the last resort, I was thinking of putting forward to that 'dog borstal' on tv or is that too much haha.....

seriously, any advice would be so much appreciated indeed

thankyou so much for reading my post - I don't normally write so much about a topic but this is serious to me.

kindest regards to everyone

luv

Debi
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Hi Debi

Just a quickie to help with more specific training advice - how is he with food, i.e. can he be tempted into a different behaviour with treats?  Have you used a clicker at any of your classes? 

Also, where are you?  It might be helpful if someone can point you in the direction of a good class.  I'm surprised that trainers are giving up with you.  Have you been working toward the KC Good Citizens awards?

If he isn't allowed off lead it's really no wonder he's full of pent up energy but I can see that you are in a catch 22 situation.  Is there anywhere he can be allowed off?  A fenced farmers field, a tennis court, a paddock somewhere - it would really be worth driving somewhere just to let him run.  Alternatively you'll need to find some garden activities for him to release some energy before you take him to highly populated palces to continue his training, does he like to play with toys?

Debi, where abouts' in Merseyside are you? I may be able to reccomend a training place...where do you work as a groomer...do they not have any ideas for you? To be honest he nees a run and a let off the lead, how about the beaches and getting him swimming?? He needs to run off some energy! Also consider some of the food you give him...if he's on a high protein 'giant' food I would take him off that for a start!

All the best, Dawn

Morning new here.

We have a four and a half month old Newfie and he lunges too.  We have put it down to him being a puppy.  He is attending classes and seems to be responding well.  If you want to let him run free, try going to the beach at West Kirkby, that is ideal when the tide is out and you can walk over to Hilbre island for the exercise too.

PS  Ricky Hatton does not do two rounds anymore lol

Hi Dawn

thanx for responding and im going to respond to my other replies also as they cover other things....

I am in Liverpool and I work for myself at home and in the process of getting a small shop so it's me myself and I at the min sadly! I fully understand he needs a good run Dawn, but where I live (Wavertree) there is really nowhere to let him off and the breeder said to me when we bought him, to keep him on the high protein 'giant' food from 'pets at home' until he's 18 months!!!! He's on 250 gramms 1 in the morning and 250 t time,  the protein in that is 28% I do know that is high but he said whilst he's growing he needs the food.  I have been thinking now for sometime of feeding him the BARF diet but I don't know much about it.  I work all the flippin' time from home and to get him to an open space without anyone around is really hard.  I did let him off once at Otterspool where no one was around, then a couple of kids appeared from nowhere, running up to him, he spotted them then he just ran towards them, me and my OH's hearts where in are mouths as I just new what was going to happen, the both of us ran with our 2 young kids towards the other children and shouted them to stop running, then he just got to them and jumped all over them knocking them for 6, he wasn't biting or anything, he was just just all over them on the floor, the kids were screaming and thank god their parents were ok about it.  I was so upset Dawn, so we just can not let him off lead anymore he is just a loose cannon, when he was off, he just goes off and doesn't come back, all the treats, calling ect...he takes no notice....

I know these trainers cost a lot of money, and it's tight at the min as my OH has been unwell for 3 years so he can't work so it's down to me at the moment to keep things going (until he gets back to work that is) so that's why I have to work all the blinkin' time.  I am prepared to try again to go to another school.

He does go out for 3 walks a day for about half an hour I know it's not enough but at the moment, I haven't a choice.

So if you can give me any tips I would be greatly appreciated

kindest regards

Debi
xxxx

Thankyou also Gary for responding to my desperate plea

As you can see what iv told Dawn here, well you can see what im up against, West Kirby is lovely and a great place, I know the beach is ideal for Ralph but as I work all the time at the moment, it's hard to get him there in the week, I live in a built up area and its hard to get anywhere.  Ralph is the livliest Newf we've had honest he is, and the last 2 we've had have been great and we were living in a built up area, but we could let them off the lead for a run and they would come back, so I honestly don't know why Ralph is like this..but im not giving up on him....

I can say, even if I let him off on the beach with the tied out, he still would run for miles and ignore us, and the only time I can get to the beach is on a Sunday when there are loads of people out.  Dawn says it may be the food so im going to look into that....iv just come in from walking him and all the kids in our road just come up to us to say hello, he just wants to jump up at them and wont even let them stroke him, as the children try to stroke his head, he throws his head back and trys to grab their sleeves he does this to everyone and I just don't know why he's doing this!!!!!! the kids all get frightened of him then, I really want to take him to my kid's school and show him off, but I dearnt, it is an awful shame....

The last training school I went to didn't know why he grabs sleeves when your trying to stroke him, all the Newfs iv seen at the shows iv stroked and they just sat their and enjoyed it and so well behaved and they were mostly young newfies!!!!!

So hopefully now I may get some tips on getting him sorted

thanx again Gary for responding

Debi
xx

hi to 'dogs a babe'

just thought id respond to your reply and thanx for replying also....

As you may have read my last to posts to gary and dawn, iv a few probs with Ralph, and with my work totally on my own with my grooming sadly....to be honest, everywhere we go there are scores of people even the woods in the Wirral, we went there last week to see if I could get him on a field there we knew, miles away from the car, again, kids playing football.  When he is off the lead, and he sees anyone playing or walking, he'll just run to them and knock them over by jumping up at them or steal their ball if kids are playing football, we're lost to be honest as to what to do, again I mentioned, it may be his food, im just now sure what to feed him on, I have asked the breeder a few times would it be best to change his food, he goes mad and says leave him on the 'giant' food.  Iv also had a work with other newfy owner from the 'newfoundland Club' and they all have their own diets for their dogs, so im lost there also!!!!!!

He also chews all his toys we give him, even if we have a toy if he's good and he gets it as a reward, he's chew it! so we don't buy anymore toys for him sadly....

again, any new ideas will be greatly appreciated and as I say, im not gonna give up on him....

thanx again for replying

Debi
xxxxx

Debi, I would honestly take him off the Giant high protein food NOW! really I would! Too much protein sends them loopy! Can you manage to get to Formby for training? There's a chap there who is great ex police dog handler and the set up they have there is great...it doesn't cost an arm and a leg either...it's West Lancs K9 centre http://www.westlancsk9.co.uk/  Guy is the chap that runs it and even if you go to ordinary training there they will help with specific problems, hope that helps, Dawn

hi,

have read through these posts and here's my contribution ! 2 pieces of advice  - about the exercise - have you considered running him alongside a bike or on rollerblades? - or using some sort of back pack? Have done this with my dogs, and it worked a treat, especially when you are pushed for time..can do say 10 - 15 mins on bike around block to run off a bit of his steam - then take down to park for 20 mins for socialisation? There must be times in the day when the park/field you go to is quieter?

Also i would 100% concentrate on the 'come ' and 'retreive' commands - if you have a garden? try calling him in from the garden at least 10 times a day maybe for a special treat so that he comes back immediatly to this command. (Some people find whistles to be effective) Also i found that a really desirable toy that your dog will retrieve, goes a long way to keeping his attention on a park, so that he doesn't get distracted as much by other dogs/people. TIMING is the most important thing here to make sure he is focusing on you... Of course this will not happen overnight and goes without saying that you must always be calm and patient! (1 step forward 3 steps back! ) These 2 commands should also build up your confidence at the same time of course which is so important. There is also lots of advice on the internet like NILIF training which is brilliant to help calm down an adolescent dog and improve your control when faced with more challenging situations. Sounds like you have a lovely dog though.... 

> have read through these posts and here's my contribution ! 2 pieces of advice  - about the exercise - have you considered running him alongside a bike or on rollerblades? - or using some sort of back pack? Have done this with my dogs, and it worked a treat, especially when you are pushed for time..can do say 10 - 15 mins on bike around block to run off a bit of his steam

Are you aware that the dog is a 12 month old Newfoundland ? He should not be excercised at speed as he has not yet stopped growing & over exercising a giant breed will affect his joints amougst other skeletal parts. It might be fine for Casear Milan to do this with other people's dogs, but he does not have any giant breeds. It might work well with your Westie, but I would not advise anyone to exercise a young dog in this way.

The natural outlet for a Newfoundlad's energy is swimming, a very safe form of exercise as no stress is put on the dog's skeletal frame

Hi Debi

With the age of your dog you're going to have to be careful about the amount and type of exercise he has but with care you can channel his energy.

Do have a talk with other owners of giant breeds about his diet but don't feel pressured into a rush decision. Do some reading to see whether he is now old enough to change, and advice from other Newfie owners will be invaluable.

You've said that he is more difficult than your previous 2 dogs, if your circumstances have changed since then, or you are feeling a bit stressed or edgy he'll be picking up on that.  In your training with him you might want to try reducing the amount of vocal commands you give.  You can teach him to watch your hand signals and use a clicker to reinforce any or all of your instructions.  For recall try using a whistle and open your arms wide when calling him to you.  Wave his toy around too and let him have a play with it when he gets back.

Recall is vital and at the moment he's telling you that you aren't enough fun.  You must make yourself so exciting with toys, food and the promise of play that he wants to come every time you ask.  One of the ways you might help him to focus is to practise your recall with your OH or a friend.  Ask them to take Ralph a short distance from you.  When you call/whistle Ralph they should make sure he's watching you then release him with an instruction to run to you. " Go on then" will do!!

Ideally you want this exercise to succeed the first time you try it so load up with very tasty treats (liver cake is good), pack his favourite toy, and remember your whistle (try a good gundog site for a loud one).  Then head for an alleyway or enclosed footpath.  You want to ensure there are no distractions and only one place for Ralph to go.  It may take months of building this up but at least you'll be working toward a reliable recall.  I'd suggest that you and your partner both carry leads so at any time you think you see a distraction heading your way you can get Ralph safely on a lead, otherwise keep working on sending him from one of you to the other.  Not too much in one go, and don't worry about speed - it's consistency and reliability you want not a snap back recall.

Practise recall at every opportunity including at home from one room to the other, he'll soon get the message.

Making yourself the focus of his attention will help with lunging too.  If he is on the lead and you see a likely situation- ask him to stop and sit, or stand; and keep him focussed on you with toys or food.  As soon as the distraction has passed make a big fuss and give him some play time.  He might be huge but he's still just a baby and isn't in control of his impulses just yet :)

HTH :)

> about the exercise - have you considered running him alongside a bike or on rollerblades? - or using some sort of back pack?

Maxine - the dog in question is a Newfie - a very large dog and the OP has a problem in controlling him at the moment - for her to be on a bike or rollerblades would decrease the control she has over him.   This is not a good idea!

hi everyone - point taken on bike suggestion then! - i do know this breed can be very exhuberant when young so consistant exercise is very important - yes swimming would be a good option. They are a working dog and i have read that pulling carts etc is an option, and no i didn't just see it on ceasars program!. 

> it may be his food, im just now sure what to feed him on, I have asked the breeder a few times would it be best to change his food, he goes mad and says leave him on the 'giant' food.

I would agree with newfiedreams about taking him off the giant-breed food.
I fed my pup giant breed food (against the breeders advice), once I swapped him over onto a lower protein food (beta adult, not giant breed & tripe), I found he was generally a lot calmer. But you really have to make the descision yourself, you've allready found that there are many different recomendations.

Buster is now coming up 2 years old and still sometimes gets over-exited when people try to stroke him, I have to get him in a sit first or he'll be on his back legs, flailing around, mouth open looking like a big monster, he had got brilliant with people, but I think his 'kevin' stage is kicking in at the mo, so his self-controll is a bit of hit&miss :(   This behaviour is something that, allthough may be helped with a change in diet, needs training out of and I think I'm right in saying that Newfies are no push over for training? similar to the Mastiff, consistency (and a cool, calm, demeaner) are very important, not forgetting MOTIVATION, if there is a better reason to behave than there is to be 'silly' they'll do what you want, then with practice, the behaviour you want will become a habbit. Ohh, it sounds so easy untill you're on the other end of the lead to a huge, over-exited dog, whos self-controll has gone out the window!

>He also chews all his toys we give him, even if we have a toy if he's good and he gets it as a reward, he's chew it! so we don't buy anymore toys for him sadly....

Some dogs like to chew thier toys to peices, that's the only thing Buster will do with a toy, he loves gutting a new teddy after he's removed the eyes with surgical prescision. I buy him the rope/'ragga' toys as they last longer than a teddy, but I still have to watch as once he's undone the knots, it gets dangrous, because he'll chew all the loose threads off. I wont buy him any plastic/rubber toys as he shreds them in seconds and I don't want him eating all the bits.

Cardboard boxes (cereal boxes, large boxes form a supermarket, whatever ou want) are a great source of entertainment for a dog that enjoys ripping his toys up and if you hide some treats in there they also have to figure out how to get the treats out (or some kibble from his daily food ration). Once they get good at doing that you can make it a little more taxing by scrunching indiviual treats up in newspaper, they then have to 'unwrap' the treats before they can eat them.
It's amazing how much a bit of brain work tires them out, teaching new tricks/commands, inventing games where they have to think a bit, varying the walks.

Oh, I've just thought of another game - apple bobbing! I tried it with Buster, but he was not willing to keep trying to get an apple out of a bowl of water, he gave up & went to bed!

Good luck, remember he's only a baby and every time he is 'difficult' it's another chance for you to teach him how you want him to behave :)

Although it is an exuberant breed, it should be remembered also that the Newfie is a giant breed and although large, puppies should be kept to the rule of exercise for only 5 mins x month age at one time (ie - a 9 month old puppy should only be exercised for periods of 45 mins max per sesseion) - and I would only have two sessions a day.    The growth plates are still vulnerable to strain and care must be taken not to over-exercise these large dogs when they are still young.

> The last training school I went to didn't know why he grabs sleeves when your trying to stroke him

Oh dear, that says a lot about the training school. Your dog is just excited, it's play-biting, nothing sinister he just needs to be taught not to do this and taught how he supposed to greet people.

It's so hard when people insist on stroking them though. People need to be told to ingonre your dog untill he's sat calmly, then them stroking him is his reward (re-inforced with treats to start with), but in reality people think they know better and carry on trying to stroke them, then they waft thier arms around becuase your dog is being silly and they look even more exiting!

Timing is critical, you need to get his attention BEFORE he gets excited about people, it also helps if you occasionally give him a treat when there is no distraction (ie, praise him for walking nicely on the lead & give him a treat, or treat him for looking at you when you say his name), otherwise he'll soon cotton on that when you try to get his attention there are fun, interesting people about.

ahr thank you everyone for advising me, you all must think I am so stupid, but iv had 2 newfs in the past and now Ralph and boy, he is more hard work than the other 2 we had.  I will take up all your recommendations, I am going to contact K9 in Southport to see if they can help in training.

I am going to take him off the high protene diet, (pets at home giant breed food) the reason why iv kept him on it, the breeder has been adament on me keeping him on it until he's 18 months!  he more or less shouted saying he needs it as he's still growing...but other people say he doesn't need all that protine, god I just don't know what to do on this then!!!!

Iv been working on his recall, but iv stopped all treats cos he's puttin 2 much weight on so iv kept some of his food back and now using that as treats.  The prob is is that he not really interested in coming back to us but we're working on it.....another thing, is to WHAT sort of food should I give him

Iv been really thinking about the natural food diet (BARF) giving him raw chicken wings as my freind gives her dogs (labs) this and there's not a think wrong with them they'r in perfect health....but with a Newf, im just not sure how much to give him or again WHAT sort of raw food can I give him!!!! and how much!! I mentioned this to the breeder and he wouldn't have any of it, so he's not much help to me there then.....

I do believe this may do the trick of calming him down and maybe then he will take notice of me when training him. 

He is so lovely with us in the house but as you have all read, it's when he's outside on the lead, sadly I can't let him off the lead and with all that energy pent up, I will see if we can get him somewhere to run a bit and also swimming is great for them, but it's impossible at the min as my kids do stuff at the weekend with clubs and I work all weekend as well in the week for the timebeing cos of money probs!  but soon illl have him swimming.....

Another thing if someone can give me some advice on, he is very greedy, you can't leave a crumb out and he'll have it off the worktop OR if one of the kids is eating toast, he focuses on it and lunge for it.  We tried to deter him but no chance, again, this may be down to the high protine food so any advice on changing it and how to do so id be grateful indeed.

Thanx once again everyone for being so kind to take the time to answer my post, I really do appreciate it and if there is anything else I want to know then I will be posting my questions to you lovely guys and if you feel I should know any further advice, please feel free to let me know as you can imagine, I do need all the help I need right now lol

Debi
xxxxxxx

> ahr thank you everyone for advising me, you all must think I am so stupid

Debi - I wasn't for a moment implying that you were inexperienced or "stupid" - I was responding to someone who suggested roller blading or cycle running for a young dog.   I wanted to correct the erroneous implication that because a puppy was large it needed loads of exercise!

Personally I too would be coming off such a high protein complete food - research the BARF diet - you can google it and get so much informed information and support too from something like the Britbarf forum.

Do let us know how you are going with Ralph - I think the newfies are wonderful!

Hi Debi

> Iv been really thinking about the natural food diet (BARF) giving him raw chicken wings as my freind gives her dogs (labs) this

I'm sure a BARF diet might be great for Ralph but it won't be the whole answer; food is only one contributory factor and he really does need training too.  It's very likely that what you are experiencing is as a result of your lifestyle not any specific problems with Ralph.  I'm not being critical here just observing that you are so very busy and Ralph needs a lot of attention at the moment to satisfy his training and 'entertainment' needs.  There's bound to be a bit of a shortfall.

Until things settle down a bit and you get some more time there no reason why he can't stay on a complete food for now - if you start a new thread specifically about different foods you'll get a ton of advice.  You can leave the raw diet til you have more time for research. IMO though chicken wings are always going to be too small for your big boy.  

> Iv been working on his recall, but iv stopped all treats cos he's puttin 2 much weight on so iv kept some of his food back and now using that as treats.

If you consider how excited he gets by food on your counter and the kids toast then his normal food is never going to be good enough to tempt him back!!  You're right about not overfeeding him but remember that training treats need to be counted as part of his overall food allowance NOT just taken from his food bowl.  If you wanted to bribe your kids to tidy their room then a few spare cornflakes wouldn't do it - you'd need to pull out the big guns - and if you were calorie counting you'd just compensate elsewhere.  Do the same for Ralph - think garlic sausage, liver cake, chicken etc and just reduce the amount you feed him at mealtimes.

> sadly I can't let him off the lead

As I've said before this is going to be a must and you need to find somewhere where he can be off lead but not able to escape.  Try an enclosed tennis court or a narrow alleyway. 

> he is very greedy, you can't leave a crumb out and he'll have it off the worktop OR if one of the kids is eating toast, he focuses on it and lunge for it.  We tried to deter him but no chance, again, this may be down to the high protine food so any advice on changing it and how to do so id be grateful indeed.
>

This behaviour isn't down to his diet, it's because he's a food-motivated dog, I'm sure that changing his diet will not change this behaviour.

Buster was a complete monster for stealing food and I still wont leave him unatended while my kids are eating.
It started when he was about 9 months old (not too sure, he may have been older), one day he decided that the block of cheese I was cutting was too tempting to ignore so he jumped up at the counter, knocking me out of the way and grabbed the cheese - gone!!! in 2 gulps That was the start of his food stealing mission!
He got worse very quickly. Shutting him out of the kitchen prevented him stealing food I was preparing, but it didn't teach him how to behave around food.

I was getting a little worried how to tackle it - how do you encourage/lure a dog into not stealing food? what is more enticing than stealing food? - simple - the dog is food motivated so food will also work as lure & reward to teach him how to behave around food :)
So I started to give him a stuffed kong while I was preparing food. Before long he got used to laying down with his kong while I prepared food, I moved on to making him lay down & wait for his kong while I prepared food (he would focus on the kong then, not stealing from me), that gradually progressed to him laying & waiting for 1 little treat, then laying & waiting with the occasional treat when I'd finished.

Now he is 99% reliable when I'm preparing food, the other 1% of the time I have to remind him to sit/lay/get his head off the counter. I don't leave any food on the counter if I am not in the kitchen and I don't leave him without me when my kids are eating (even if my OH is with the kids eating, Buster will still try to steal from them, but he has stopped stealing of my OH 99% of the time).

Remember that reward based trainig is very, very effective and the more the activity is practiced the stronger the lesson is learnt. Every time your dog steals food it is enforcing the habbit (the food is the reward, weather it is stolen or given!), so you must take away all opportunities for him to steal - set him up for success as you would with any other training.
Don't leave him unatended around any food, don't leave food anywhere he can get it and if you can't focus on keeping him in a down while you are preapring food then shut him out of the kitchen. I started by keeping Buster in a 'down' as it takes longer for him to launch onto the counter from being laid down, so if temptation gets the better of them you have time to move the food out of reach, or give a verbal command 'leave'/'no'.