Hi

I hope someone can help.  I bought a dog from a breeder 6 months ago and did not get papers with her at time. Was promised they would be sent out ASAP. This did not worry me as the last dog my mum got this happened with but papers were with her within the week.

Anyway to cut long story short no papers arrived.  After many phone call messages and one or two replies (always excuses as to why no papers were with me) I finnaly threatened to raise an action against her.  So papers arrived....

Problem being they do not belong to my dog.  She was born last august and these give her DOB as this January.  Have tried to contact breeder - with no success.

What should I do?  Why would she lie about DOB how would that help her? 

Do I have any comeback?

Thanks in advance

Hi,   you need to copy everything and give the details to the KC , was your breeder an "Accredited" one ?   if so they have many stipulations  they need to adhere to or the status can be removed and in this case several of the rules have been broken

No not accredited.  Silly in hindsight.  So not sure if she cares if she is stopped for breeding KC dogs.  MAd at myself for being duped.

Just another thought I take it she is not a KC registered dog... so not worth much.  Don't get me wrong love her to bits :-)

Accredited isn't always what it suggests , many people refuse to join in as they see it as a farce, i only suggested it as you really should be taking all of your details to the Kennel Club and maybe contacting the Breed Club to see if they are a member

Good luck .

It sounds to me as though your dog is not KC reg, but as you kept asking about the papers she has probably sent you papers from another litter, born in Jan which are KC reg.
As you say she is a much loved pet, so doesn't really matter, but as you expected, and paid for a KC reg pup I would ring the KC anyway to make them aware, and maybe trading standards, if the breeder is doing this.

Unless she has a good explanation - ie "sorry I've mixed up registration papers and sent yours to X and X's papers to you" - you have a valid case under Trades Descriptions Act which should be brought to the attention of the local Trading Standards authority - you bought a puppy born on ------ and it is now described on papers purporting to be the correct registration as born on -------.

You'll get the local Trading Standards Officer's no from your local authority - look on their website.   

It won't change the puppy in any way whatsoever - you love it and wouldn't change it - but the breeder should not be allowed to profit from this.

Thanks evreyone for your replies.

I will send a recorded letter this morning to her to see if geniune mistake and mixed papers.  I will also speak to trading standards and KC today.  Could she have been back to back breeding?  She owned dame and sire was owned by daughter.  I checked with KC before I bought to see if sire and dame were registered and no endorsements on them.  The answer was yes and yes.

So I don't understand whar she is doing unless she is breeding the poor thing every season.

She may have more than one bitch.

Yip she could have more than one bitch but if prepared to give me the wrong papers what would it matter to her to lie about mating to KC? 

Could she have been back to back breeding?  She owned dame and sire was owned by daughter.  I checked with KC before I bought to see if sire and dame were registered and no endorsements on them.  The answer was yes and yes.

So I don't understand whar she is doing unless she is breeding the poor thing every season

As much as back to back breeding could be relevant in this case, it really would make no difference to the pups being registered, the KC will not register pups to a bitch under 12 months at the time of mating or over 8 years of age, otherwise unfortunately back to back breeding is allowed and the KC will register as long as the bitch has had no more than 6 litters.

The reason for you having no papers and the litter you have not being registered must be for some other reason, it is good that you checked that the Dam and Sire were registered by the KC, so what the actual problem is is a mystery. It takes between 3-7 days to receive paperwork once registered, 6 months was an appauling wait and then to get the wrong papers, talk to the KC urgently about this.

Hi

I have spoken to the kennel club and they do not know what she is up to.  They say that the litter registered in Feb was the dogs 'first' litter.

They also say that when the 2 dogs were mated everything was fine and the records showed that there was no endorsments and both dogs were owned by mother and daughter.  They siad there had been a transfer of ownership in September but that woule not have affected the registration.  So the reason she has done this remains a mystery.  I have my thoughts.....

Have spoken to trading standards and have sent a letter to breeder, will await response.

Got hold of breeder proir to phoning KC and she told me that changing dogs DOB was only only way she could get registration.  But as I have said KC say this is not the case.

Sorry for rambling.

Got hold of breeder proir to phoning KC and she told me that changing dogs DOB was only only way she could get registration.  But as I have said KC say this is not the case.

How old is the mother? Sounds to me the breeder is saying the mother was less than 12 months old at mating and therefore she lied about when the pups were born, to be able to register them.

My concern now, would be that the bitch was under a year old .. since this is her 1st litter, and ownership is in order, mating took place either as an accident or deliberate.. but the hug gap in the pups DOB suggests bitch could have been around 7months old .

However,, we can all guess at the reasons, there should never be any reason for this, and hopefully the truth will come out..

You say your pup was born in August, but they only transfered the ownership of mum in September.. So who actually bred this litter?

Got hold of breeder proir to phoning KC and she told me that changing dogs DOB was only only way she could get registration.  But as I have said KC say this is not the case.


The KC obviously just think a litter was born in January so to them there is nothing wrong.

The only reason a breeder needs to change a pups D.O.B to register is if it is too young or too old to be registered, the pups in this case officially should not be registered the breeder is flaunting the rules and the KC should not have registered this litter, I'm quite surprised after highlighting this and knowing the age of your pup and passing it off as a later litter that they are not asking you for all the information they should be taking charge of this situation for you to get to the truth that is what they are there for to protect bitches being bred like this and rules broken.

You didn't want this pup as a potential show dog did you? Hope not as there are obvious repercussions. :-(

Just curious...

Is the KC registration certificate legal proof of age?  If this situation wasn't resolved and these were the documents perki8 was stuck with would it have a negative impact on her or the dog?  I don't know if showing, breeding or travelling overseas is even an option but would incorrect documents prevent perki8 from doing any of these activities? 

Presumably there are vet records that demonstrate the dog was born in August.  Can the KC make amendments to the reg documents even if the breeder refuses to comply?  I wonder if the other puppy owners from this litter have noticed, or even been sent documents...

Hi, Been reading this post and found it very interesting. We had a problem with a breeder 2 yrs ago. This was the first time we had bought a pedigree dog... Our tri girl was advertised in local paper as kc reg, mum can be seen etc....went to see her, beautiful little girl with 2 other siblings and mum. Asked for transfer papers and pedigree etc she said she was waiting for them from the KC and would send them asap. Got a receipt and paid the money for her and brought her home. 2 weeks later no papers...several phone calls to breeder, she was at work, she was shopping..blah blah..no joy. Rang the KC who advised me to write a letter saying that I had paid for pedigree pup and wanted the papers. They also wanted kc name of mother which we didnt have, they advised to get in touch with trading standards!!!!! Got in touch with trading standards who said the same thing and to wait 2 weeks....nothing. Trading standards investigated and because the breeder wasnt registered as a business there was nothing they could do, our only option was to take her to court and ask for part of our money back but apparently the judge could order us to hand over the pup back to the breeder!!!!!!!!! I tried ringing again only to be told in plain english "to go forth and multiply". We never did get the papers. The breeder is still breeding the mother and advertising the pups as pedigree but no papers and selling them for £400 each. We also have a KC reg girl and the papers, we went on the kc site to find her.

'Sounds to me the breeder is saying the mother was less than 12 months old at mating'
No KC say if the bitch is the one she says it is she was well over 12 months infact 2 years.

Hi Carrington

I explained to the KC that my dog was born in August and was registered as January.

They do not understand why she has done this.  The Dame was 2 in August so more than old enough to have a litter. They have told me to write to her ask her to change the DOB. I asked them if they could look into this and speak to breeder to find out what was going on but was told no.  Only course of action would be to go through courts.

Yes I wanted to show her, but that is not possible now... anyway have just cut her down so would not be able to show her for months now.

Were you given 6weeks free insurance with pup.. is there any paperwork you got with pup to prove that you bought her before January.. Microchip papers etc.. receipt.. anything at all with purchase date?

My pups all went to their new homes over the last couple of weeks, but I have only just sent off the paperwork for registering, because I could not think of any names, and couldnt reg this litter online since Sire resides outside UK.. but all my puppy owners have insurance docs dated and signed and also Microchip paperwork which has date of chipping, AND date of birth ..

Yes I have a receipt from the breeder, I have insurance for the dog from day it came home.  I have innoculation papers from vet who saw it on the day after we got her and her micro chip paper.  Having said that she is very big ;-)

I realise I have made a mistake not getting papers before leaving breeder, silly me for believing in the honesty of humans.

> Yes I have a receipt from the breeder, I have insurance for the dog from day it came home.  I have innoculation papers from vet who saw it on the day after we got her and her micro chip paper. 

This is good, at least it will give you a lot of leverage when it comes to evidence and proof, whichever way you decide to proceed and good luck

> I realise I have made a mistake not getting papers before leaving breeder, silly me for believing in the honesty of humans

Sadly it happens,... you are just really unlucky.. I have bought a pup before, and was filling in his 1st show entry and realised I didnt even know his name let alone have his papers lol.. they were sent on after a phone call... and my pup owners have had to trust me too.. my pups are in new homes.. and I dont have paperwork back from KC yet..

It is human nature to trust, its such a shame this trust is abused..

I do hope you  find a solution to this.. keep us informed.. :-)

Thanks very much, I will do :-)

Sorry to hear about your situation.  Especially as you wanted to show your pup.  Just a thought... I wonder if the reason behind the wrong-dob date was because she'd had a few too many litters last year and is worried about the council getting onto her but it is very possible that the breeder is trying to make out that the dam of the litter is another bitch.  If once your pup is over say 24 months old (over the age of the age restricting classes) why could you not show her then?  Sorry if something obvious hasn't hit me in the face! and good luck with getting it all sorted. :-)

> If once your pup is over say 24 months old (over the age of the age restricting classes) why could you not show her then? 

This would be very wrong, and would place the OP in an even more dreadful situation, as well as dishonest, to a certain extent.. If this pup did go into the showring and did well, and things were finally sorted out re Reg.. the OP could be stripped of everything from the showring, and very publicly too... Best to try and get things sorted, so that OP is completely above reproach ;-)

Does she live a reasonable distance from you, could you go visit her with a friend as witness..

Write to her, asking her 'nicely' to write back and explain why she has stated pups wrong DOB.. anything you get in writing can then be addressed to the Kennel Club, along with photocopies of Chip papers and Insurance  etc..

It may not help your case, but you may be able to help stop this happening to others,

the OP could be stripped of everything from the showring, and very publicly too... Best to try and get things sorted, so that OP is completely above reproach


In total agreement, it is not worth the risk.

The thing is as the pup is definitely not from the 'litter' and D.O.B as registered there is no proof that she is even from that parentage at all, without the correct KC registration who knows for sure where the pup has come from.

Nothing here makes sense, both 'parents' are KC reg and without endorsements and the bitch is 2years old.

The pups were born in August but transfer of ownership of the bitch was in September, perhaps the pup is nothing to do with this bitch at all I feel this is the most likely scenario as even if the breeder took on the bitch 1 month after whelping and transfered her to her name she would still be able to register the litter under her details???

Hope that you get to the bottom of this, I think we are all interested in the explanation.

I have to say that I am beinging to think that the pup has nothing to do with the sire and dame that she said too.

I hope I get this resolved sooner rather than later now... but I will have to wait and see.

Just a quick update.... no reply or reponse from the breeder yet...

I will be contacting trading stardards in the morning to see what my next course of action is.