Me and my Bernese are doing the bronze good citizen award and he has been a dream until recently. I take his collar off to give to the instructor to examine with no problems, but when it comes to putting it back on he starts 'messing about'.

He puts his head down or sideways or sometimes even lies down and rolls over.  Getting a bit embarassing now as everyone elses dog in the class sits there all nice and still. Any ideas ?

hold a treat in your hand? why do they need to see the collar?

> why do they need to see the collar?

The collar is examined to make sure that it is appropriate for the dog, in good condition and that there is a legal tag on it.

Have you practised the 'watch me' command yet?  This can be a very useful one and will help with your collar.  The dog should stay very focussed on you allowing you to put the collar on with no drama.

In the meantime don't forget to keep your face fairly neutral.  It's so hard when they start clowning around not to smile like a loon in response, thereby encouraging them to continue to show off for you.

I have to say he sounds delightful and I'm sure with a bit of perseverance will get the hang of it.  Put the collar down whilst you bring him back to a sit then try again.  Reward him as soon as you get it back on with a big treat, food, play, voice (whatever works best).

My boy is apt to throw himself on his bed, roll over, and wave his legs about sometimes when I get his tablets out. If I put them down and walk away he soon comes out.  You could try the same with your boy - put his collar down and move a few steps away.  Your trainer should be able to help you if you get really stuck.  Good luck

I wouldnt worry too much. Your trainer isnt concerned so you needn't be. There was a lab in my good citizen class that did exactly the same thing - not helped by the fact the leather collar was a nightmare to do up so it seemed to take an eternity. At that stage in the test the examiner is checking the collar - not the dogs behaviour so its not a problem. If pup was biting you or growling when you tried to put it on then yes there would be an issue :-)

I think the examiner also checks that you know how to put the collar on as in not too loose and not too tight - at least my examiner did.

They also check that the dog doesn't run off as soon as the collar is removed.

Hmm...
How old is your Berner?
My boy was a nightmare to train going through bronze and silver.. We passed each one first time no worries but he was a stubborn sod most of the time. Thought we had mastered the gold, which technically took us 2 goes..
We didn't have to take our collars off our dogs, its different in each training school i know. The judge or trainer would feel the collar and check the take without the need to take it off..

Can you use treats to keep his attention while the collar is being checked and then slip it back on?? Then treat him??

Exercise 2 - Collar and Lead
The object of this exercise is that the handler learns how to put on and take off the collar and lead safely. It is important that the
collar and lead are suitable for the type of dog and that the handler is able to fit them correctly.
Note: A dog that becomes frightened can back out of a loose collar.

Testers at our classes have asked owners to remove and put back, as someone said its chance to check tag and that with things like a chain that owner can fit it right way round or with flat collars that they dont just slide it off and on over head which would be too loose.
They had no problem with owners making a slip with handle end of lead to retain dog while collar was off.
Chris

Teach the command COLLAR by holding the collar in a circle ( just like it will be when on the dogs neck  but unfastened ) present it to the dog with your left hand - so as he can put his head in - hold treat in front in right hand. As the dog puts its head through the loop to get the treat say COLLAR and give treat.Fasten colar.

Each and everytime the collar is to be put on ( and this is usually for walkies - good) say COLLAR hold up collar and praise for entering loop.

Next stage - one treat for entering collar ( then hands off) and one for WAIT to clip up lead.

Within days the dog will be coming up to present his head for COLLAR -at home or outdoors.

When I'm calling my lot to go back from a walk, I use the COME command but if they are close I use the COLLAR command and they ask for their collar to be put on.

> Teach the command COLLAR by holding the collar in a circle ( just like it will be when on the dogs neck  but unfastened ) present it to the dog with your left hand - so as he can put his head in - hold treat in front in right hand. As the dog puts its head through the loop to get the treat say COLLAR and give treat.Fasten colar.
>
> Each and everytime the collar is to be put on ( and this is usually for walkies - good) say COLLAR hold up collar and praise for entering loop.
>
> Next stage - one treat for entering collar ( then hands off) and one for WAIT to clip up lead.
>

i use something similar for putting the halti on my boy, he has to sit and i hold open his halti and say 'face' and he puts his face in. i found that it was easier when he needed out for the loo as well as using treats as he had an added incentive to be quick and calm.

Thanks for all your replies everyone, some really helpful advice there.  Suejaw my dog is is 2 in July and the apple of my eye x Congrats on getting a gold - nice to hear of a fellow Berner getting a gold, gives me some hope !!

Hey,

There are a few of us out there with Berners who have passed the gold award. Its not a common thing though. My new boy is 11 weeks old and when the classes start again we'll be on the puppy for 8 weeks before we head to bronze. Going to suffer and do it all over again..

What is your boy like when you practice collar off, collar on at home? I would start by doing this and then venture to the garden and add other distractions along the way, like a quiet park, followed by a busier one etc...
With using a command and treats this is always good thing, especially when a Berner is food orientated..
I use sausages or offal cake when i need to train by older boy. The new one, not sure yet but he gets over eager with treats when i get them out, so hoping i can do it by voice alone for him..

Forgot to say good luck, you'll get there in the end..

> hold a treat in your hand? why do they need to see the collar?

hi tina, I was under the impression that use of treats is not allowed in tests.  I haven't been allowed to use treats with either of my dogs when they have done the awards and they were done at different classes.

I used treats while doing all my good citizen tests, as did others in my class. Was never a problem

Mad Mary

Double check with your trainer regarding treats.  We were allowed to use them for training but not during the actual test, although we could reward again after each exercise.  I think it's to ensure your dog is following commands rather than being lured

Although my boy often assumed my hands had treats in them and I was going to tell him otherwise...

There's a guidelines book available from the KC for £3 for examiners -it may state in there (has anyone here got it and can check?) but it says nothing about treats in any of the test descriptions that I can find other than for gold no food or toys to be used when sending the dog to bed or in the relaxed isolation. I have to say I've never been told NOT to use treats during the tests, and I have now done a total of 19 bronzes, 10 silvers and 7 golds, under a lot of different examiners in various locations.

>> Although my boy often assumed my hands had treats in them and I was going to tell him otherwise...

At the bronze I recently completed with the pup the consensus in that class was that you could have treats with you and rub them in your hands before the exercises but were not to have any treats in your hand when doing the exercises in the tests.

I have the book at home as I run classes for the kennel club good citizen awards - unless anything has changed I was under the impression no treats are allowed in the test environment but treats can be given when the exercise is over and people are back at their seats.  Maybe i've been abit strict on my lot lol!

We've got an assessment on Sunday, and have been told strictly no treats, except for the 'dogs to the front' command

We were allowed treats in the examination... No examiner has told us not to use them nor the trainer either.

I am a KC approved GC Test Examiner for Bronze, Silver and Gold.  NO FOOD is allowed whilst dogs are under test.  This is the same as for ANY test in ANY discipline.  The whole idea of the GC test is to demonstrate that you have control of a well behaved dog.

As for restraining a dog without a collar on, the examiner should have a slip lead which is given to the owner during the collar examining process.  After all if they did not they would be setting a poor example would they not?! :)

When putting on a collar the examiner is looking for a well behaved dog that is not struggling or fighting when you put it on.

HTH

one of the reasons the KC put on these courses was that there is such a disparity between examiners that some certificates were not worth the paper they were written on; so examiners who have have successfully passed the courses are preferred to provide consistency.  I once saw an "examiner" give a dog 5 chances to do the stay in the Bronze!!!!!!!!! Appalling.

Definitely weren't allowed treats during the examination with my dog either. We were also not allowed to use head collars, harnesses etc. At the most we were allowed to use a half check. Needless to say my Dobermann got very over excited on the road walk during the silver - wahay no headcollar mum! Couple that with being in an exciting new location and he was up and down on springs all the way along the pavement Since heard from loads of other people that they have been allowed to use headcollars and the like. Didn't know people were using treats as well though! All a bit of a farce then.

NO FOOD is allowed whilst dogs are under test.

Thanks for clarifying this. Shouldn't it be mentioned in the print outs -how else are examiners who have not been on the course to know?

Glad you replied as that is what I have always told my classes that they must not use treats in any test.

Also it is on the print outs and other KC Good Citizen test info.

If people are using treats in the tests then I think that there are many dogs passing that shouldn't be.

Also it is on the print outs and other KC Good Citizen test info.

No it isn't, that was my point. http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/dogtraining In none of the printouts does it mention anything about treats other than, as I mentioned before, a couple of exercises in Gold. Where have you seen it written down?

It says it in the guidebooks (anyone who is allowed to test the dogs should know this) and i'm sure it is on the paperwork that is handed out to the owners.  Will double check when I get home and let you know. 

No it isn't on the paperwork which is why I had never seen it. (All the forms are on the website link I gave.) I don't know how long the guide book has existed (certainly it came in many years AFTER the scheme started), but I've never seen it used by anyone who has acted as an examiner, they always just read the notes, so clearly this IS missed which then is a problem. It needs to be printed on the notes as well.

The guide book (which has been issued to ALL registered GC KC clubs and examiners) clearly states that treats are not allowed.  This book is circa 2 years old

Trainers at KC registered clubs should have access to this book, if not it is £3 from the KC.  I have two, one because I am an examiner and one because the club I belong to is registered for GC training.

I often find candidates ill prepared for tests (some even do not have the correct ID) and thus they are deemed "not ready" and really it is down to their trainers to ensure that they provide sufficient information.

They allow head collars and harnesses in our training and tests too. I recall i think one dog was muzzled as well, well through the training sessions anyway, it kept it on for most of a test, except when examiner had to check its mouth. It growled and failed the test.. Lovely dog, great owner, they went onto 1-2-1 behaviour training from there.

There is definitely something that says about headcollars etc not being used.  The only time we have been allowed to use one and this was clarified with the Kennel Club is when we had an owner who had problems with their elbows (bad arthritis) if I remember rightly and the dog had always been walked on a halti for safety reason - the Kennel Club allowed this but we made sure we had permission.

It does make me wonder if there's much point in the tests at all if people use treats and halti's etc.  I'm about to do the Gold with one of mine and he'll be on a flat collar and lead with no treats anywhere.

Have to say that i've not used a head collar or harness in the training lessons or the tests, though i have used treats..Don't know anyone that i have gone through with that doesn't use treats, except those with no desire for them, so they carry around a squeeky toy..
Now what's this about the collar you use??

I've done bronze, silver and gold without treats...they are definitely not allowed in any of the tests.  You could get most dogs to walk to heel and do other tasks with a treat in your hand but many won't do it without.

I've done all the tests with 3 different dogs (and different examiners) and am about to do the bronze with my puppy. I've always been told that treats aren't allowed to be given until after each exercise, but were allowed when each part had finished.
If none of the examiners i have had have known about this then its not very well publicised. I think no treats after each part is a bit mean, after all its not a formal obedience test, its for pet dogs.