Hi, Anyone know where I can get Ovulation pads or sticks quickly?  I was conned by an advert that looked like a business and wasn't. Help, Please?????

This isn't the answer you were looking for BUT could you not get a premate or blood test at the vet?

have PM,d you.

http://www.ovulationpads.info/

Yes, I could but a consultation is £28 then the cost of the blood test is £24 then, every four days another blood test at £24, it's getting silly as we are not well off.  I have mated my maiden bitch four times at consecutive seasons twice to the first dog then to another and then to another. All with the same breeder who is fantastic. We have mated her on different days 8, and 9.  9, ten and 11.   12 and 13 and the last time 13 14 and 15.  Nothing.  I now have a boy who is sound and suitable and his pedigree is excellent and suits hers and he has been willing all along but she won't stand for him.  She loves the foreplay. Bonks my other girl but when the boy goes near her, apart from all the licking and play, she won't stand for him.  We are now on day 14 and he is as keen as ever but she's not having any.  I thought if I could get the sticks and test her  myself I could see if she has ovulated (she may be going over now but the boy thinks not) and then insist if she is reluctant.  I don't want to force her.  She has been held each of the times she has been mated before but - nothing. My girl is now 3years 2  months and I will have to give up on her soon. I should say that my boy is inexperienced.  He has had one bitch, tied for half an hour and we are awaiting the results at the moment. I love this forum. You all (mostly) are so wise and helpful. I desperately need to know where to get the sticks.  I ordered some from a firm called Ovulationpads.co.uk  but I think it is a bit odd.  No reply from the (mobile) phone number and then, without any contact at all the postage for next day delivery was sent back to me. No correspondence still so I don't know what to think but inefficient to say the least.  I could travel tomorrow to buy some sticks I thought.   I'm open for suggestions please????? Thank you. 

What have the results of previous premate tests been?  At what point did it show ovulation.

It is quite possible your bitch isn't ready yet.

My last litter the bitch wasn't mated until days 18 - 20.

I would keep trying until she has finished her season.

3 years two months is only the age many people would be trying for a first litter,a nd unless this is a toy breed as long as she has a litter by five I wouldn't consider it too late.

If she is not ovulating then Thyroid function would be something to look at.

Hi, Thank you for posting to me.  I value your input as I am an admirer of your obviously vast experience.  I haven't had my girl tested at all.  It would be OK if I had the tests to do but to take her to the vet is dreadfully expensive. She is a toy breed. She is 5lb 8oz so is not tiny. She's a good weight.  I decided that, as it might be a good idea to let her decide when she was ready but I am now worrying that she won't decide at all.  Do they always get randy when the time is right???  She hasn't had a choice at all before and hence we have just tried the different days as I listed. It could be, of course, that she ovulates very, very early but then, surely she would have stood for her "intended"?

To be honest without testing you are not going to know if she is ovulating late or early as you have already tried the most usual days.

I must admit in my own breed we do very much go on letting the dog and bitch decide when the bitch is ready and only offer discreet assistance if the bitch is obviously willing but perhaps not presenting herself well or moving just at the wrong moment.

What were the bitches female relatives like in this respect, as often behaviour and timing run along family lines.

If the expense of the testing is an issue I really would reconsider breeding at all, as a C section is going to cost a lot more and is a fairly likely outcome with a toy breed bitch.

Is she a particularly successful show bitch?  If not maybe she just isn't destined for motherhood, and it isn't a good idea to breed from bitches with untypical cycles and behaviour as it is likely to result in daughters with similar problems.

I agree that we should probably have gone for the testing but I had hoped that having the boy to tell us would do the trick.  His breeding is excellent and suitable for my girl and he is as sound as a bell.  Yes, I know about the cost of C Sections - horrendous -- and we are prepared for that.  It's just that, as we have tried the most usual days as you say, I had visions of being able to test NOW to cover these days.  We haven't let the dog and bitch be out of sight although they have been together all the time. If we've left the house we've crated her and the boy. (Yes, seperately.) We are ready to leap to their aid immediately should they decide to go for it as we would like to hold them throughout the tie for fear of damage to either.  We are retired and so are here all the time.  At no time has she appeared ready to stand for him. She loves the foreplay, but if he tries to mount her or even look as if he might she impersonates, quite well, a Tasmanian Devil with Tourettes.  We wanted to try to avoid several hundred pounds worth of tests at the vets if possible. She has done quite a bit of winning but has had to be kept out of the ring too much while we have waited each time to see if she has taken. Then, of course we haven't entered much as we didn't know if she would be taking care of her proposed Nursery duties.  She is from a self whelping line and there are no fertility problems known of. She has all the qualifications of a really nice show/brood.  I do know that she might indeed not be ready and that it can go on another week or so but I thought that if I had the ovulation sticks I could see if she ovulated (hopefully) and like it or not I could step in and help. 

To be honest there is something odd that you bitch has missed 4 times.   I personally would be sending blood off to http://www.idexx.co.uk/

OR I would call around some vets and get some prices for the blood testing as you are getting a little ripped off..

I pay £25 all in for the test from one of the biggest vet practices in my area, my freind pays £27.50 all in.  If you are already on Day 14 at the most you would need 2 tests unless . I would send blood to Idex if I were you..

Yes, I could but a consultation is £28 then the cost of the blood test is £24 then, every four days another blood test at £24, it's getting silly as we are not well off.  I have mated my maiden bitch four times at consecutive seasons twice to the first dog then to another and then to another. All with the same breeder who is fantastic. We have mated her on different days 8, and 9.  9, ten and 11.   12 and 13 and the last time 13 14 and 15.  Nothing.  I now have a boy who is sound and suitable and his pedigree is excellent and suits hers and he has been willing all along but she won't stand for him.  She loves the foreplay. Bonks my other girl but when the boy goes near her, apart from all the licking and play, she won't stand for him.  We are now on day 14 and he is as keen as ever but she's not having any.  I thought if I could get the sticks and test her  myself I could see if she has ovulated (she may be going over now but the boy thinks not) and then insist if she is reluctant.  I don't want to force her.  She has been held each of the times she has been mated before but - nothing. My girl is now 3years 2  months and I will have to give up on her soon. I should say that my boy is inexperienced.  He has had one bitch, tied for half an hour and we are awaiting the results at the moment. I love this forum. You all (mostly) are so wise and helpful. I desperately need to know where to get the sticks.  I ordered some from a firm called Ovulationpads.co.uk  but I think it is a bit odd.  No reply from the (mobile) phone number and then, without any contact at all the postage for next day delivery was sent back to me. No correspondence still so I don't know what to think but inefficient to say the least.  I could travel tomorrow to buy some sticks I thought.   I'm open for suggestions please????? Thank you. 

We wanted to try to avoid several hundred pounds worth of tests at the vets if possible.

Don't take anything the wrong way please :-) BUT 4 times missed most people would be doing the tests properly.  Testing would not run into several pound.   Only once have I tested 4 times and that was my own silly impulsiveness starting too soon and it came to £100.  Generally the blood test price includes the taken of the blood etc.

You should send the blood to Idexx on day 5 or 6 at the beginning of her season ( too late now I know)  they do not require you to blood test as often like with premates it. With Idezz which is only about £30-£35 all in you generally need 2 tests.

Having a boy at home doesn't do anything for two reasons,  Males dogs sometimes can tell you sometimes they are useless and the other thing is dogs that are kept together often have sibling tendancies and often won't make a dog they live with.

For a bitch to miss 4 times is likely not to be getting the days wrong , I think something else. Has she had a swab taken for infection testing etc?    Even gettng her a few days out sperm lives for so long they generally would get caught by chance.

I know it makes sense.  I've made an appointment for a blood test this afternoon a 4.40 so watch this space.  I did spit out my dummy and make a bit of a fuss at the price and they went to my lovely vet who got back from his time off yesterday and he said that it should be £33.  Not a consultation fee on top. So you were right and it should indeed not have been PLUS a consultation fee. This is a top quality little bitch and I WILL find out what the problem is even if I don't ever get puppies from her. Given her breeding I can't see it being a genetic problem but it certainly needs investigating. I'll post again this evening when I know more. I will just say a big heartfelt thank you to you all for your help and advice. I really appreciate it. thanks. xx

Good Ladybird.

Get a little swab test done to it may be something that needs antibotics although 4 seasons later the damage could be done.

Good luck.

Will do Blue. Thanks.  BTW  the ovulation sticks came this morning so my apologies for thinking that it might have been a con.  It certainly wasn't. a nice little note from the person sending apologising for not being able to ENSURE next day delivery (which happened anyway).  We are still going for the test this pm. but the test looks like she IS ovulating.  There is a colour change but patchy which, I understand, means nothing. Just a different amount of secretions I guess.  The blood test later will confirm, I hope. My sincere apologies to the moderator who removed one of my posts. I hadn't realised that I wasn't allowed to name my breed.  She IS a toy breed and is about 5lb 8oz which is a good weight for breeding.  More later, I'll  let you know what happens with the blood test. Fingers crossed please - begin. xx

Am I reading this right?  You've tried to breed from this bitch for the past 4 consecutive seasons and she's only just over 3 now whatever age did you first try and mate her?

I have a bitch that isn't ready until days 16/17 so you've still time but I would certainly go with having blood tests done.  I don't generally start doing them until colour is beginning to change and hopefully you will then only need one or two.

14 months the first time (second season). Then about 20 months (she comes in about every five months). Then 26 months. then 32 months.  She is now 38 months.   ??????????   Her breeder is helping me and is one of the top in the breed. Loved and respected by everyone and an all breeds judge both nationally and internationally at Championship level.  We are coming a little close to our wits end and I asked the forum initially about Ovulation pads (or sticks) which came today.  My girl has not yet ovulated according to the smear at the vets this afternoon and I have yet to use an ovulation pad.  She is on day 17 so is obviously a late ovulator.  I took her for a blood test today and am sitting waiting for the call from the vet shortly.

I've been trialling the Ovulation pads with one of my girls, no plans to mate her, but wanted to see how accurate they are.  Not convinced either way at the moment, I have an entire boy here and he's showing no signs what so ever in her, although MateTel is showing ferning, the Ovulation Pads have changed colour slightly, so I'll see what they show tomorrow.  It's day 12 today for her.

Good luck with them. I think they could be amazing if they work.

Phone call from my vet to say that the blood test shows that she hasn't ovulated yet. She's in pro oestrus. This is day 17 so I'm going for another blood test on Monday. Meanwhile I'll try the ovulation pads and see what they say and how it compares with the blood test.  She has refused to mate all this time and it's gratifying to find that she was right.

Am I reading this right?  You've tried to breed from this bitch for the past 4 consecutive seasons and she's only just over 3 now whatever age did you first try and mate her?
Hi Ells-Bells ,

I can't answer for the poster but in several small breeds it is "believed" best to mate them younger. Anything from 13 months.  She could have short season or anything.

One of my show girls is nearly 3 and never had a litter I would rather not have left her this long for a first litter but don't want to pull her from the showring as I am doing quite well with her. Her mother was 15 or 16 months when she was mated. Fantastic mother had her puppies in less than 3 hours , popped them out like peas.

Every breed is different. A lot of people with big breeds can't get their head around it but they have mentally and physically slower maturing breeds, a lot of small breeds are the exact opposite.

Hello SharonM,    I was reading through these posts just now looking for further clues and something in your kind post to me is a little puzzling.   Are you saying that your boy is showing no interest in your bitch although she shows signs of possibly having ovulated????  What I can't understand is - why is your boy showing no interest?  Surely he should be showing interest regardless of ovulation and the bitch, as my girl is doing, would be rejecting his advances????

Hello Blue, I missed your posting to Ells-Bells last night and only now, when I've woken and come on here again, have read it.
Yes, we do  mate earlier than the larger breeds.  We mate at the first season providing it does not ocur before 12 months. My girl had her first season at 8 months and the second one 5 months later. She has come in at around five month (or so) intervals throughout.  It is so frustrating because she is missing so much show time (so are we).  She hasn't missed Crufts each year because we have managed to get a show in and qualify her between seasons.  I haven't shown her after mating - until I scan at 28 or so days for pregnancy. This means that she has had to miss shows that are due to fall around the time I might be mating and until I know she has missed I haven't entered anything else in case she was attending to Nursery Duties.
I  must say that I am so glad that I didn't hold my girl and insist on a mating without her being up for it. She obviously knows what's what and although she is very loving to the boy she just will NOT let him mount her.
More when I have something to answer or report.  Everyone has been so nice and I will let you all know the outcome. xx
PS  I accidentally lied earlier. I said I hadn't tried the pads when in fact I had. It was a fumbled attempt and I had discounted it and decided it wouldn't count and that I would try after the ver's diagnosis.  Inadvertantly I said I hadn't tried them yet and that was untrue. So sorry.  I hadn't meant to decieve - put it down to my advanced years. Hahaha. :)

> What I can't understand is - why is your boy showing no interest?  Surely he should be showing interest regardless of ovulation and the bitch, as my girl is doing, would be rejecting his advances????

Many experienced dogs will take no notice (other than to initially check the bitch out) of a bitch that is not absolutely ready for mating.

I took one of mien abroad and she was really keen standing steady and pestering him, but he would not entertain even mounting her until two days later.

A stud dog I bred was not used until he was mature and he stayed here with his ladies, and was a perfect gentleman, no pestering, just a bit of cosying up until they were ready for mating.  There was no need to keep them apart (though obviously I did when I went out).

Maybe because my breed is pretty natural, and it is most common to have a bitch stay for several days or a week with her intended that the males learn that just because a bitch is there doesn't mean there is any all fired hurry to mate her????

Ahaa!!!  Well you see, my boy is quite a randy little git, if you pardon the expression,  and has his brain hanging beneath him it seems.   I couldn't understand why that boy wasn't pestering the bitch  all the time.  Of course it stands to reason that the scent of the bitch would change when the time was right???  I had these dogs back in the early 1970s to 1980s but I had "bought in" bitches which I bought to show. I bred a couple of litters and indeed I proudly bred a lovely little girl that, after I gave up and placed the dogs in suitable homes, she went to someone who wanted a start in showing and become a champion. It was a bitterly sad time for me and giving them up was heart breaking. I vowed not to have dogs again until I retired and here I am.  I only had girls and took them to a carefully chosen stud dog.
I was determined not to force my girl at this last try at getting her pregnant and it is still scary as to whether it's going to work or not.  At least I now know that she isn't yet ready - at day 18 - ye gods!!  Still, If she's ready on  Monday from the blood test and I'll use the Ovulation pads too, we should have lift off.   If I HAD forced her she would have had to put up with a virtual rape every day and I would have probably given up about now and missed yet again.  I can't use her again if she doesn't make it this time.  It wouldn't be fair for a first litter.  I always said I wouldn't go over 3 y.o but being of such low  moral fibre, obviously, I have stretched it to 3y 2 months.  I'll let you know how we get on.  Thank you for being so nice and so helpful. I really am very grateful. x

Hello Folks,
Brainless,I have come in here because I don't know how to tag on the end to join in again with an update of my little girl.
We went for a vaginal swab and blood test on Friday and it showed that she is in pro-oestrus and nowhere near ready as yet. This was on DAY 17 of her season. To recap she started bleeding on 8th April.  I made another appointment on the vet's advice for this afternoon, DAY 20. They have just rung to say that she is still not ready!!!!!  I queried the test and she explained that in fact they do two tests and both confirm that she is in pro-oestrus and nowhere near ready. I have made another appointment for Wednesday which will be her DAY 22.  No wonder we couldn't get her pregnant for the last four seasons if she is such a late ovulator. She was given no choice and was mated over the usual days.  Anyway, We can't stop now so it's a case of in for a penny, in for a pound.
How do I tag back on again when I get the results, or is this way OK?  If I wasn't so sad about this, I would still find it most interesting.  Bye for now. 

Good luck.  It isn't unusual for bitches that miss to be found perfectly fertile on investigation, just totally untypical as to timing of ovulation.

As for males pestering the girls, if a male has a bitch tell him off firmly he should learn to bide his time.  I do not agree with forcing bitches, which is why when I had a difficult bitch (she wanted to be the boy) I did blood tests to check if she was really not ready or ready but just confused.

She was very happy to play the games but wouldn't stand still enough, so intervention needed. She got the hang of it for her last litter.

Missed this posting until now.  You are so right as usual and you could be describing my girl. I hope you found my post when I received the latest call from the vet today with the results of the blood test. In a nutshell - Day 20 today and she's still not ready. All seems perfectly normal , she's in pro-oestrus but not even near yet!!!  I have another test booked for Wednesday Morning.  DAY 22!!!!!!! I'll keep you posted.

Exactly Ladybird.....which is why I'm not convinced they actually work!  Surely a good stud dog would know when the timing was right, I know of many dogs that won't go near a bitch or show interest until she's ready.

Sorry Sharon, what is is that you're not convinced about? Is it the Ovulation pads, and your trial?
How will you know whether they work or not Sharon, if you're not going to mate the bitch at this season? Are you going to have blood tests?  I am getting a little confused. :-)  ??????? 

is it the Ovulation pads, and your trial? To be honest if they were that great I would think people would be discussing them more. I have not heard any really great reviews on them personally.

No Blue, you're quite right.  My vet is keen to find out about them but he says he can't think what they might be testing FOR.  I am at the moment unconvinced. The discussions, I have found, have gone on for some time and nothing conclusive.  Some bitches conceive and some don't. Can't say there's much change there. I can't imagine how Sharon can tell with her trial.  She won't know if the bitch has ovulated or not with only the pads. The pads might say yes but unless she mates and the bitch conceives she won't know. It's a puzzle alright.

I can't answer for Sharon but she must have a reason for doing it :-)

Touch wood I have only had a bitch miss once , unfortunately it had to be the bitch I blood testing 3 times then did the 1050 round trip to Bournemouth with :-)  But the potential sire was older and sadly never produced another litter anyway. I know it was a risk. All others have taken no probs.

Why were you blood testing the bitch?  Do you do all your bitches?  Makes a lot of sense actually. I am guessing - you calculate the day and instead of driving off at great expense you blood test first???

Yes I blood test any bitch being mated.    Most always spot on day 12 but when setting off for generally an over night two day travel I would rather do the tests and be sure.   I know dogs that would mate anything so although people claim the dog is alway spot on that has not always been my experience.  Some dogs are well trained by their owners as stud dogs.  Maiden bitches often dont like being mated so I would rather know my bitch was bang on ready before popping in front of any dog. 

That is just my take on it though :-)

What absolute good sense that is.  So simple.  I shall most certainly take absolute notice of this and it will be what I do in the future.  When I think of the time and money wasted going backwards and forwards hundreds of miles - this would have been so much easier and cheaper. Thank you. :-)

This is my latest result  29th April.  My girl went for her third blood test this morning and her vaginal smear too.  She is now in oestrus and my vet says she should ovulate in the next few days.  She hasn't yet but the colour comparison shows lighter and it shouldn't be long now.  I have another appointment for Friday late morning.  This wil be day 24 of her season. She is still showing very slight colour. We are hoping that the test on Friday will show ovulation and we can then arrange to take her to her "intended".  I will post the results for you all when I know myself. Bye for Now. 

What was the result of yesterdays test?  She can't be much longer surely?

Hopefully the poster is away getting her girl mated ;)

Hi, I decided not to go for the fourth blood test.  The poor little thing was  miserable and they had to try both legs last time to get enough blood for the test. My vet was away on Friday until Wednesday so it would be a nurse taking the blood and the bitch came out with plasters on both legs last time.  She's only 5.5lbs so only has little veins.   Also,  I thought that if she would stand for the dog and if he thought her to be ready then we would go for it. She was mated successfully being gently held but without any insistance on Saturday but without a good tie. Yesterday she was mated again and tied for 40 MINUTES. She doesn't do things by halves this one.  She's going to be mated again today and tomorrow if they are both up for it. 
I think that if she doesn't get pregnant this time then it wasn't meant to be.  Tomorrow will be day 28. If ovulation hasn't taken place yet but does so on day 28 then the sperm and eggs will still be good 24 - 48 hours later.
The Ovulation pads  were dark throughout the blood tests - no change.  They showed ovulation when the bloods and smears said not.
I won't abandon this although I realize I turned this from a query about Ovulation pads into a long running saga. I'll keep you up to date.  Should I start a new thread or come back on here, bearing in mind that it might be four weeks before I have her scanned?  I'm sure by now you are dying to know if all this worked. Wish us luck  

Fingers crossed for you.

Sounds most promising.  A slip and then a tie would usually mean she was not quite ready and then was.

The fact she stood happily is another very positive sign that she is definitely a late ovulater.

I don't know if anyone is still interested and awaiting information but I did say I would post.  My little girl has missed yet again. She was mated this time on days 24 25 26 27 28 and 29.  She was on the point of ovulation according to her blood test on, I think, day 23 so we took her and left her.  She was mated on those days. Good matings, the one on day 25 was a 40 minute tie. She was happy and willing all the time.  When she came back on day 29 our boy was interested but only for two days. So I assumed that she had, indeed ovulated and hoped that she had, at last, take.  No signs and yesterday we took her for a scan only to find that, yet again she has missed.  I have now given up and sadly must resign myself to the fact that motherhood isn't for this little girl.  She is obviously destined for show biz and I can get her entered into a few shows and get her qualified for Crufts next year.  Thank you all for your interest and kind help.  We are gutted to say the least. All the best.  Luv n stuff.  Pauline. xx

So sorry to learn that you missed out again.  The breed isn't one that you could go on trying unfortunately, mine are normally spayed at this age.  You must be so disappointed. 

Sorry to hear that your bitch has missed again.  I am in the same position with one of mine.  She has just missed for the third time :-( and I have all but given up with her too. I too used the ovulation pads with her but only had the opportuntity to take her to the dog once so cannot blame the pads.  They were telling me 36 hours before that she was ovulating so thought we may be spot on, alas not.

Thank you for getting back to me.  Yes, we are giving up now.  I know that it is too late now for a first litter - I stretched it to this last try in desperation but £100 of blood tests this time, followed by the usual £28 of scan and still the answer is no.  I am so sad about it but hey. I love her to bits anyway and she's  so much fun. Back to the old drawing board and a delay in my breeding programme.  All the best.  Pauline.