UGH!  Please help.  My adult male dog is attacking my 5 month old puppy.  He bite him so hard today he made his foot bleed and the puppy was on his back, screaming and  the other dog would not stop.  More info:  I have 3 dogs.  Adult female, 6 yrs old, rat terrier, 17 lbs.  She's alpha.  Adult male, two years old, chow mix/german shepherd/heinz 57 but he's small. only 31 lbs and up until now an angel.  The new puppy is 5 mos old, we have had him for about a month.  He is boxer/border collie mix (all my dogs are rescues) and already weighs more than my other male.  Usually they get along fine, sleep together, play, kiss each other.  But twice now, my older dog attacked the pup and wouldn't stop even when the puppy submitted.  Very vicious sounding and it scared the hell out of me.  I don't know what to do.  I don't want the puppy to get hurt any more and I definitely don't want him to grow up and hurt the other dog.  Right now they are matched in size but that's not going to last long.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks

Hi, was there anything that could have triggered this, such as food or toys around or were you are anybody giving the pup or dog that attacked any attention at the time?
Are all the dogs entire or have they been neutered? How old is the bitch you say is alpha? and what makes you believe she is alpha?
Sorry for all the questions but to be able to help we need to know specific details as these can be major factors in the cause of the problem.
Also have any of the dogs ever been like this either to other dogs or to dogs in the house, before the pup arrived?

I have to say I don't like the sound of this. Are you in the UK? If so I'd urgently get in a reputable trainer or behaviourist, the latter preferably. For an adult dog to not let go of a pup in such a way is to me a cause for worry - as in,the pup may learn via a one off that other dogs are bad news and this can affect him for even the rest of his life.

Agree there may be triggers, also maybe your male needs a thorough vet check just to rule out anything medical (it doesn't necessarily follow that he'd attack the other dog if he's under some kind of physical stress).

It may be something simple that can be solved. For instance perhaps you are inadvertantly doing something to cause a problem (sorry not trying to be rude :) ).
Also it is true that some dogs really don't like puppies and just can't handle them but are better when they are older.

These may help:

http://www.apbc.org.uk/
http://www.apdt.co.uk/

Lindsay
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Hi.  I was working with the bitch at the time, had her on a leash in the backyard, outside the fence and the other two dogs were in the fenced part of the yard.  I usually take out one at a time to work with them so this is not a new situation to any to them.  The puppy started screaming and I ran into the yard, yelling for Zephyr (the older dog) to stop.  He had the puppy corned on the deck, on his back. and was really attacking him.  The pup was terrified and his back leg and foot were injured.  Not seriously, he is fine now but it was so scary.  I feel that if I had not been there to stop it, he would have really hurt or killed the pup. 
The bitch (spayed) is 6 years old and I have had her since a pup.  I think she is alpha because the other two dogs both came into the house as puppies and the other two follow her if they aren't following me.  The adult male is neutered, the puppy is not.  The vet wants to wait until he is 6 months before neutering.

The bitch is a terrier and has always been "nervous" when new people or dogs come to the house.  She growls but never bites and will be on the visitors lap if allowed within a minute but you can't just reach down and pet her when you come through the door.  The male has the sweetest temperment ever seen (until yesterday that is).  Loves everyone and everything. 

Last night, after the attack they were laying on the couch together as if nothing had happened.  Am I over reacting?  The pup was bleeding and the fight was not "play".   I am now afraid to leave them alone together. 

I am thinking of taking both males to a puppy daycare to socialize with others

Lindsay,

     Thanks for the info.  I am not in the UK but  I did look for trainers and behaviorists in my area yesterday.  I talked to a lady who runs a dog day care and she suggests I bring the dogs in for socialization.  They let the dogs play together with monitoring.  They also have training classes which I will enroll both dogs in but they don't begin until June.

    I don't think Zephyr attacked the puppy unprovoked.  The pup can be rough, as most puppies are, and I think he bit too hard or just annoyed too much and Zephyr showed dominance but once the puppy was reprimanded he should have stopped and didn't. That's what is scary. The pup also annoys Zoe sometimes, i.e.  tries to take a toy or treat, but she just growls and he backs off.  (and he is already twice her "size).  With Zephyr he seems more annoying.  The pup played with my niece's chihauhau, a dog he could have bit in half, and was very gentle.  No teeth, just nosed her.   With Zephyr he is more aggressive, I was actually worried about Zephyr, not the pup.  No growling but some pretty fierce rough housing.  Should I not let them play like that at all?    

Hi Susan, I'm not going to be much use, but I've been in a similar situation.

Mine was an older bitch attacking a young pup.  I was convinced she wanted to kill him, she drew blood on 2 occasions, and he needed stiches.  They too would then go off and play/sleep together as if nothing had happened.  I had some great advice off here, but have found the only way to reassure myself it'll won't happen again is to NEVER leave them alone together.  I know when it's most likely to occur (toys, bowls and when he accidently runs into her, as big gangly pups tend to do!), and I understand most dogs will put a pup in it's place, but she just launches into a full-on attack without so much as a warning growl.  Fortunately as he's got bigger (he's 10kg heavier than her now) these incidents have reduced, but I'll never trust her with him 100%.  He fortunately doesn't seem to have taken it to heart and absolutely adores her, and every other dog he comes across!

I know what a horrible situation it is, and it's such a worry.  I hope it all works out.

SusieQ,

    Thanks for the reply and advice.  I am glad to hear that the puppy didn't "take it to heart".  That is what I have been worried about also.  I am keeping a very wary eye on both of them and when the puppy starts playing rough, I stop him, trying to avoid another incident.  It really is a pain though.  I like to put them in the yard if the weather is nice and I am cleaning, doing dishes, etc. but now I am keeping one with me.  I sure wish I knew what the older dog was thinking....  where's Dr. Doolittle when you need him?  LOL

Have a wonderful day!

I'm glad to hear there was no actual damage, is this correct? It may have been all noise and warning but I was concerned you said he had the pup and was not letting go ... hmm.

Well done on the trainers but do be very careful what methods they use - in the US, even stating "force free" can often mean electric collar training! So do look for a good reward based place (and double check how they deal with issues such as too much barking etc - and check they really are reward based and just saying it to get customers. Goodness I sound cynical don't I! :))

Also make sure they are careful with supervised play, as more than a few dogs playing can be a problem as they can learn the wrong things ie learn to bully shyer dogs for exampe, or only to play boisterously.

This explains a good class although I appreciate it's UK
http://www.apdt.co.uk/choosing_dog_trainer_uk.asp

Lindsay
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hi susan, whats your older boys background if you know it? i'm wondering (having of course not seen it) if he just doesn't know when 'puppy education' goes to far?

alternatively he may have had an incident with a dog of similar age or type in the past.

i think a vet check would be a good idea though. it could be something as simple as pups hurt him badly without meaning to and he has really reacted.

> Goodness I sound cynical don't I! :-))

no you sound sensible :)

Susan,

Is the pup just 5 months or  5 nearly 6 months? Although there is a development schedule for each breed, within that some pups develop much more quickly than others. It could just be that yours has had an early testosterone surge (dogs around 6 months plus can have the highest testosterone levels they will ever have in their lives and this signals the onset of adulthood to other dogs) this combined with his size and, as you say occasionally pushy behaviour, may all have been too provocative for your older boy. In addition, because the older lad is castrated he may not be as commanding in his smell and the pup is unwittingly pushing his luck. I've noted, out and about, that 6 month old, particularly male pups, can get very sharply told off by adult males.

Nontheless, as Lindsay and others have suggested keep a watchful eye, talk to a good behaviourist about it and take it from there. In the meantime make sure your older boy suffering from an ailment that could have made him unusually grumpy and reactive. It could well be that he was teaching pup a lesson he hopes pup will never forget and instilling a lifelong respect for him and his space.

no you sound sensible 

Thankyou! :)