Booked my young girl in a month ago for her to have her hips done on Friday.  She has had a prolonged season (5 weeks) and still doesn't seem to have quite finished, colour gone but still swollen at the moment.  I've heard people querying whether a dog should be done soon after a season.  What are peoples thoughts?

Diane, I have always tried to keep within the mid range period between seasons for scoring.. but I had a girl, who was out beating with me last season, and I wanted her hips done, she was xrayed 2weeks after season finished.. came back 5:5  .. mum 6:9, dad 4:3.. so cant see that they would have been much different if I had waited..

In reality I must admit that I very much doubt that it will make any difference, surely it would only be a point or so, could not believe that it would be by any big margin.  Worried as she is a bit mental and has gone flying a few times, last time only last week when she went running into the water at our local water park and slipped on the wet ground.  Time will tell, just hoping it's not to high, fingers crossed it's the same as her grandma's!

> Worried as she is a bit mental and has gone flying a few times, last time only last week when she went running into the water at our local water park and slipped on the wet ground

I can understand how you feel.. I had the same thoughts with Ollie.. warp factor 8 is his slowest pace .. and he came back a 5:6  mum 2:2, dad 4:3 

I had 2 train of thoughts before I had hips x-rayed.. they were either going be horrifc because of his boy racer antics.. or excellent because he capable of his Olympic standard of acrobatics lol

Worried as she is a bit mental and has gone flying a few times, last time only last week when she went running into the water at our local water park and slipped on the wet ground

My boy was horrendous (still is). He would always throw himself down hard on the ground if he was being chased, or lose his footing when chasing a ball and go head over heels. I cannot count the times when he has done this and his last roll would end up with his hips hitting the ground so hard that I could hear the thud. I was scared rigid when it came time to X-ray. He came back as a 3:3.
As for seasons. The Vet I go to used to say don't X-ray when in season, but I really don't know why or if it really does make a difference.

I'm hoping for Calida's to be the latter to!  :)

The last one Calida was the same and you could hear it very loudly, at first I was worried that she may have broken something but she was up straight away and running around!

Well interestingly i have been told by breeders not to score them when in season, i have always doubted that it could make much difference myself, hormones arent going to change the shape of the ball and socket, thats just my opinion, so a recently scored 3 girls, 2 of which were in season 1 was not, all litter sisters too, i am hoping for the results back at the end of the week so am really curious to compare all three girls. I asked my vet what he thought of the theory and he was adamant it would make no difference at all, he also said all three girls had nice hips, the past couple of dogs he has done he has been spot on for me so i am hopeful of decent results...we will see :)

I have always been told not to score when in season and my vet also said it would make no difference to result. He reckons it's an old wives tale as hormones do not alter shape of the bones.

Well its been 5 weeks now and i am getting impatient, i have to agree with my vet i cant see how it would affect the hip joints, well as i said 2 of mine were in season so will be interesting to see what we get :)

I have just checked the kc website and 2 of my girls results are in, one total 6 and the other 7 i am VERY happy :)
The 6 was the girl in season too so cant see that it made any difference. I have one more girls result to come next week, she too was in season so we will see. I am soo pleased as these girls are my third generation and we are maintaining nice scores.

My vet really is very good, he told me both their totals would be 6,7 or 8....spot on again, i cant recommend him enough :)

Well fingers crossed x-rays looked fine, time will tell!

> . He reckons it's an old wives tale as hormones do not alter shape of the bones.

It does of course affect the laxity of joints which is part of what is measured in Hip scoring.

Statistically bitches have slightly worse scores than dogs, so ti is likely to be down to hormones.

i agree with that point but would that not apply more to after mating, as the pelvis prepares for pregnancy? as apposed to a bitch approacing her season or early in the season?
Just wondered thats all :)

> as the pelvis prepares for pregnancy?

In humans the female pelvis is different to the male at all times so I suspect this may be the case with dogs too.  This may account for the general difference in scores but I can see that hormones may add to this with their influence over the ligaments surrounding the joints.

> In humans the female pelvis is different to the male at all times so I suspect this may be the case with dogs too

That would make sense, though i am sure that the difference is probably very minimal and therefore i imagine the score results my differ by only a couple of points or so?

I suppose it will never be proven either way, i am happy with my girls results so am just curious really to what other people think :)

> That would make sense, though i am sure that the difference is probably very minimal

its not in humans

yeah, but a womans whole shape is completely different to a man, which can clearly be seen with the eye, i dont imagine a dogs to be quite as drastic....of course i may be completely wrong!

Also do you think that if the difference was that big that bitches and dogs would or should be scored using a different criteria so as to take that into account?

> yeah, but a womans whole shape is completely different to a man

only on a surface level, the presence of breasts etc does not inpact on the skeleton and skeletal differences between the sexes are very small and in most cases inconclusive, its not uncommon for forensic scientists to misidentify the sex of remains etc and archeologists are still unsure of the sex of tutenkhamun! (sp)

> the presence of breasts etc does not inpact on the skeleton and skeletal differences

i meant more the fact that us woman have more shapely hips :) :)

> skeletal differences between the sexes are very small and in most cases inconclusive,

Thats what i meant by the difference not being that huge :)  .... I hope i am making sense here!

>> i meant more the fact that us woman have more shapely hips :-) :-)
>
>

not obviously skeletally and not in all cases, note exhibit a ;)

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/MMPH/255720%7EKeira-Knightley-Posters.jpg

>> skeletal differences between the sexes are very small and in most cases inconclusive,
> Thats what i meant by the difference not being that huge :-)  .... I hope i am making sense here!

lol not to me, but i am not that sensible today so its probably not you :)

>not obviously skeletally and not in all cases

As I understand it, the difference between human female and male pelvises is internally, not the external shape. Female pelvic girdles are more spacious within to allow the passage of a baby. The external shape is irrelevant.

Now that would makes sense....oh its all got a bit confusing....think i will just be happy with girls results quietly, just something i had thought about alot lately since scoring my girl in season :)

exactly