can anyone tell me please why whelping boxes are recommended but my pups keep jamming themselves behind the bars.am i supposed to remove the poles after theyre born,are they just for whelping or do they stay?
ive got the bottom slats in and a blanket under the vet bed sheet i bought that covers the entire box.why are they insisting on going to the edge of the box?ILL GET THE ODD PUP WHO WILL LAY FLAT OUT ON ITS BACK AND STAY ASLEEP BUT THE OTHERS JAM THEMSELVES IN THE CORNERS IN TWOS AND ONE GETS STUCK.WHAT CAN I DO TO SOLVE THIS MY PUPS ARE NOW 7 DAYS OLD
sorry bout caps looked up and saw it.

these pups are now starting to settle in the night after the feeds but theyre keeping me up with getting stuck!!!!
hmmmm
anyone awake???

Hi Tamara.. I'm still here, but not sure if I can be of any great help

I have never used pig rails for whelping.. but my understanding of them, is that they should be high enough for pups to get under, and far enough from the box sides, so that mum cannot squash pups against the box itself.. creating a type of 'tunnel system'

Is there a way you can raise the rails slightly perhaps just an inch, and also bring them an inch further into pen

This means pups who get squished in by other pups (not mum) can manouvre more easily and not get stuck..

hope that made sense

Hi Tamara

I'm awake!  I can only tell you what I do....I don't have pig rails because of this very reason - I would remove them if the pups are getting stuck.  What's your mum like?  Is she clumsy?  Does she lay on them or does she seem sloppy when she's in the box with them?  What sized breed do you have?  Admitedly my mums have all been very good regarding knowing where their babies are and not lying on them - in my experience the squashed pups tend to be in the middle when they're laid on and as flat as a pancake.  At 7 days they should be more robust - are they all well in themselves?

To be blunt with you, your rails are not doing their job properly anymore and I would most certainly take them out if this was my litter.

Airla

I would remove the rails if it is a problem but I would replace with flat wood  and make a ledge. This is what I used instead of rails :)

Thank you both for still being here.Yes she is clumsy and is a large breed. this whelping box is one o bought its a linkaboard i belive is the name.i have two thick blankets (not on )for extra warmth under the vet bed if i remove the blankets i dont think the bed will be as comfy for them.the thing is she does lay on them,she will stay laying on them even when theyre crying! they are looking chubby now yes but i have one small girl,she doesnt worry me but i dont want her especially being layed on.i think i will take out two side poles and see how that works as it is the corners they get stuck in
thank you both for your help though i needed advise like this thanks.xxx

It sounds as though your 2 thick blankets are making the rails too low to the ground.  I use a few sheets of newspaper under the vetbed to soak up any liquid.

I don't use pig rails but I don't leave the whelping box unattended until the pups have their eyes open but I still sleep with them until they are about 4 weeks old.  And I expect to get up a few times every night when they get lost or stuck. :)

I agree with westcoast a blanket shouldnt be needed under the vet bed just newspaper which also keeps in the heat without bulking it up, that is probably why they are getting stuck I leave the rails in until they are up on thier feet .
In the first weeks I cover the vet bed with flannelette sheets I find this easier to change regularily through the day rather than disturbing the puppies to change vet bedding  they can still move about on it easily, quick to wash and dry.

I sleep with mine until the last pup leaves for thier new homes!!

Hi Tamara,
We do use pig rails for our large breed puppies. More recently we have used cardboard whelping boxes so the rails are easy to adjust as the pups grow. But one thing that sounds slightly daft is that when we found we were getting traffic jams in the corners, we put in large jars of Dolmio sauce or similar, one in each of the back corners. The pups were then not coming face to face with each other and seemed to be able to slither out when they met a jar rather than getting stuck. Sounds weird I know but they say necessity is the mother of invention, and it seemed to work!

> Hi Tamara,
> We do use pig rails for our large breed puppies. More recently we have used cardboard whelping boxes so the rails are easy to adjust as the pups grow. But one thing that sounds slightly daft is that when we found we were getting traffic jams in the corners, we put in large jars of Dolmio sauce or similar, one in each of the back corners. The pups were then not coming face to face with each other and seemed to be able to slither out when they met a jar rather than getting stuck. Sounds weird I know but they say necessity is the mother of invention, and it seemed to work!

you know what i never thought about blocking the corners.thats a really good idea.
i do sleep with my puppies til theyre about 4 weeks,ive not left theyre side since theyve been born.ive had shower and oh sat with them hes done the shopping ect.i am awake pretty much all night for them,lol.

I don't have pig rails but a ledge as said, and we get jams in the corners too, I wonder if you are keeping it too hot? large breed pups like mine get too hot and go to the edges to get off the vet bed onto the paper, mine at 3 weeks only have half the box with vet bed and half just paper, although saying that they now have a run and spend most of the time out in it and ...you got it ...on the paper!! If they are not heaping up on top of one another and the room teperature is steady at about 70 degrees they may need to cool off a bit? Cold pups wine and pile into a heap, pups that are too hot spread out and try to lay on something less insulated than the vet bed.
Just a thought.
Aileen
PS I would not get rid of the rails just yet better safe than a squashed pup!!

Must admit I have rescued mine a ew times but as you say better safe than sorry.

Linda

hi hun :) ....its a worring time when their this age isnt it :( your to frightend to sleep incase they lay on pups ....hubby made ours and it had pig rails in ours would still get stuck in the corners so i had to put rolled up blankets there ....every noise makes you shoot up x

> we put in large jars of Dolmio sauce or similar,

Very innovative!!  :-)   Nice one Misty.

I agree with  Airla, the only pup I ever lost to crushing was in the middle.

Hi Tamara

I have had the same problem with pups getting caught in the corners - I now use toilet rolls in the corners!!  Softer than a jar! and it works too. Hope this helps.

> Hi Tamara
>
> I have had the same problem with pups getting caught in the corners - I now use toilet rolls in the corners!!  Softer than a jar! and it works too. Hope this helps.

lol its funny you should say that cos thats exactly what ive done lol.
and white lilly,yes its very worrying and i DO shoot up at every noise lol.

Never used pig rails and nor blankets.  Have them in my parents front room which is plenty warm enough.

hi Tamara, I took my pig rails out today as puppies have almost trebled in size in 12 days and are wedging themselves between the rails and the sides of the whelping box.  Their eyes are beggining to open now :-) Oh i dont want them to grow up and leave home :-)   xxx

Hi Tamara,
I have always had Pyrenean Mountain Dogs and always used pig rails made from broom handles.
I drill holes in the sides of the whelping box, and then just push the broom handles through.
When I need to clean them and the box, I just slide them out again and give them a good scrubbing!! works for me every time.
However I now have a second breed "Welsh Sheepdogs" and I am building a new whelping box to suit them. I have used exterior grade ply as a floor and Chipboard Melamine sides. I've bought my broom handles ready to fit,  but have now hit an unexpected snag!
Can anybody please help? At what hight should I place the pig rails for this breed? There must be a calculation, to work out the hight and distance from the sides of the pig-rails, for the different breeds?  Does anybody out there know what this calculation is? or have any suggestions?  here are some  Welsh Sheepdog vital statistics 36 -24 - 36 Ops! only kidding!  Height at withers: 45 cm approximately. Weight: 15-20 kg. a great deal smaller than my Pyreneans!

I like to have the pigrails at the height of the bitch's spine when she's lying on her side.

Diolch yn Fawr/Thanks very much Jeangenie for granting my wish! I had a temporary blockage of my mind, I could not think! - thanks for unblocking it! Now I can move on - very good starting point !! Diolch/Thanks , once again.

We've just made our first whelping box and measured our bitch whilst lying down at her spine level. I hope that was right, but it seemed to make sense at the time:)