I have been attempting to breed my purebred bitch to my brother's stud. (Also purebred.) These two spend allot of time together. The female has always dominated him, and he is a pretty "low on the totem pole" dog. Before she came into heat, she ABSOLUTELY hated his guts, more so than other intact females during their "off" time.

He had learned that she was the boss, and to be frightened of her. She bled for about a week, and then decided she loved him (of course). I left her with him for an entire day when she stopped bleeding and was starting to flag him. He clumsily tried to mount her and penetrate several times, but seemed to get tired and gave up. I didn't watch them for the rest of the day, but assumed he did not "get" her, as they did the deed the next day and she cried in pain when he was about to tie with her. (She is a maiden, and I assume if he had tied with her the day before, she wouldn't still be having pain when he attempted to do it that day. That is why I assume he never "got" her the first day.)

In any case, the second day she was not bleeding, I witnessed a mating. He got on her about five different times with allot of slow thrusting. Finally, he got on her the last time and he did allot of very fast, vigorous thrusting for probably a whole minute or two. She then squealed and turned on him, trying to bite at his "private parts". He has refused to mount her again since then, even though she has been flagging him somewhat the past two days. I assume he is afraid, and it probably hurt.

She was showing ALLOT of interest on the day they had the slip mating, climbing all over him and more or less demanding he do the deed. After that, she has shown him very minimal interest. She sniffs at his belly a little, and will flag him a tiny bit when he sniffs her rear end, but then walks away. He will do no more than sniff her, and then wanders off and lays down.

My question is, does her decreased interest mean she might have caught? It was the very first day she had started flagging, so she should have been fertile at least the next day or so as well. Also, I have heard of slip matings producing puppies, but what dictates HOW successful it will be? I know any time the males enters the female at all, it is considered a slip breeding. However, he didn't JUST enter her, he did ALLOT of very vigorous and fast thrusting, leading me to believe he ejaculated. How much semen generally is pushed back out of the female if they do no achieve a tie? I ran out to grab her when he was thrusting so that they could achieve a tie, but did not make it in time. She did not sit down, however, after he dismounted. Instead, she just kept trying to sniff his belly. She also has a little bit of a downhill build.

The day after the slip mating, we attempted to get a successful mating. He didn't seem to want to mount, but I convinced him to get on. He ejaculated, but I do not think it was actually IN her, though he might have been, as he fell off right when things started to exit his body (she leaned sideways abruptly.) I don't know if I can consider this another slip breeding as he was not in her long enough during ejaculation.

I am a newbie breeder! I only intended to breed the pair once, although they are both PB, and registered, so I am not out breeding mutts. My parents used to breed poodles, so they are trying to help with some information, but that was a very long time ago that they were breeders. (And they, unfortunately, were more or less VERY BYB even though their poodles were reg.).

I am not a breeder, but even I know that you should have taken advice from an experienced breeder before attempting to breed. The dogs should have been supervised at all times.
Have they had any health tests done, are either of them shown?

If I were you I would get her to the vets for the mis mate injection to end this possible pregnancy.

how should we know if she is pregnant? the dogs should have been supervised at all times. when she squealed and turned to attack him, you should have been there to hold them together for a tie. he or she could have been easily damaged, no wonder he doesnt want to go near her.

> I didn't watch them for the rest of the day, but assumed he did not "get" her

It isn't acceptable to just leave 2 dogs together and let them "get on with it".  I have a bitch arriving tomorrow, and the bitch owners are expecting a "supervised" mating.  I would be mortified if they thought otherwise!

I need to know if the act was a success, not just a maybe.  I need to know that my stud dog doesn't get injured, or put off for life.  While you obviously have a little knowledge, with the greatest respect, it doesn't sound as if you have enough.  To leave an inexperienced dog at the mercies of a hormonal bitch is very unfair, and I am honestly trying to be polite here.  My boy knows if his girls are ready, and after a cursory sniff, won't waste his energy.  But that is just it - he is experienced and far less likely to get beaten up by a rampant female.

> He had learned that she was the boss, and to be frightened of her

And you allowed them to be unsupervised?  How cruel to the poor male, you are responsible for his welfare you know. 

I won't even ask about the suitability of this pairing, or about test results, as that wasn't your question, but I would ask you to do a whole load of studying and get yourself a mentor. 

Hi,

I know things are different in the USA to the UK which is where most champdogs people reside.

The CD members who have replied have been correct in saying that no mating should be unsupervised. It is very easy to put your male dog off mating any bitch much less one he is already scared of.

Have you asked the breeder of your male or your female for advice and help? Most breeders are more than pleased to help a novice breeder get things right from the start, especially since there are a lot of people in the press and TV only too willing to jump on a novice or experienced breeder for the smallest indiscretion!

If the breeders you got your dogs from are not willing to help you, the next best thing to do would be to join a breed specific club or association, details of which you could get from the American Kennel Club, who have an online website. Other good sources of information are available from breeders you could meet at a show or a "discover dogs" type of exhibition, (which i have heard the AKC are planning), and of course several good books, which will detail all you need to know about your breed, breed specific health testing and what to expect during whelping. A good book which you might consider reading is called The Book Of The Bitch by Kay White and Jim Evans.

As you have not seen a mating with a tie, your bitch might be in whelp, but until she is well into a pregnancy you are not likely to know, so will have to proceed on the assumption that she is. As soon as you can you should get her scanned (or x-rayed which I believe some vets in the USA do), to find out if she is in whelp and make absolutely sure you know what to expect during the whelping and what signs to look for incase she has problems with the whelping.

This is the first time of breeding your dogs so you have as you now realise made a lot of mistakes. All you can do now is to learn as much as possible in the time before the pups are due arrive, and hope all will go well.

I think everyone else has already covered the rights and wrongs of what you've done, so in answer to your question about the effectiveness of slip matings, my bitch has just had a litter of 10 and we only managed slip matings (supervised) so a tie isn't necessary.

As far as the female attacking the male, she didn't attack him. She turned around and attempted to sniff him, very vigorously. As far as her being cruel to him, they hang out with each other all the time when she is not in heat, and she has never done more than growl at him. She has never been physically aggressive, she just seems to generally hate him unless they are actively playing. She WAS supposed to be being supervised when I was not there, but apparently I can not count on my father. When I WAS there, they were supervised. I was only about ten feet from them, and went to hold her when he started the vigorous thrusting, but I wasn't fast enough. I admit that I should have been holding her the entire time, but he refused to mount her unless people were not near him. The second slip breeding was much shorter, but was assisted with someone holding the female and the male as well, and it was very hard to convince him to do it.

I did NOT ask for if I SHOULD be breeding, etc. I frankly do not care about your opinions on the matter. All I wanted to know is the approximate percentage of a chance with a slip mating such as this. I know that any entrance into the bitch can be considered a slip breeding, but it was a much longer mating than a simple few seconds. Thank you for those who answered my questions. I did not ask about the morals of the situation, etc. and your opinions on me being wrong/bad do not matter to me one bit. They are my dogs. I am not breeding mutts, and it is my decision and my right. So get off of it already, it is simply annoying to get many useless answers and no real answers to my actual question about the effectiveness of a slip mating such as this. I did not do health tests, and I will not. I don't care about your opinion on this matter. They have been examined by a veterinarian who said breeding them should be perfectly safe/acceptable. That is all I need, and I don't care about what YOU think I need. Dog people are worse than horse people when it comes to breeding, and I thought THEY were bad.

>I did not do health tests, and I will not.

Please would you satisfy my curiosity as to why not? Most breeders would be concerned that the puppies they produce are at minimal risk of being crippled by HD, or blind by the age of 4, and all the testable (and therefore avoidable) possibilities. So I'm curious as to why you think it's unimportant.

You may not care what we think but if you are asking people for help or information unfortunately their willingness will be governed by what they think of what you are doing.

> Dog people are worse than horse people when it comes to breeding, and I thought THEY were bad.

Bad?  You think caring about such things as health screening is bad?

if you dont want to be judged then dont post on a public forum.

**sigh***
Yet another BYB

> My parents used to breed ........, so they are trying to help with some information, but that was a very long time ago that they were breeders. (And they, unfortunately, were more or less VERY BYB even though their poodles were reg.).

So you are continuing with the family tradition?   

Another greedy breeder :(

> I did NOT ask for if I SHOULD be breeding, etc. I frankly do not care about your opinions on the matter. All I wanted to know is the approximate percentage of a chance with a slip mating such as this.

> I did not do health tests, and I will not. I don't care about your opinion on this matter. They have been examined by a veterinarian who said breeding them should be perfectly safe/acceptable. That is all I need, and I don't care about what YOU think I need. Dog people are worse than horse people when it comes to breeding, and I thought THEY were bad.

You might not care, but we do. This is an information exchange & as such often comes up in search engine results on questions about responsible breeding of dogs. As your original posted appeared to mean that you had left the dogs unsupervised, which some web surfers may think is ok. Also doing health testing is not responaible & that is what this site is about.

Your bitch whilst willing could have turned on the dog when he was actually mating her despite the fact she knows him & was standing for him.

Yes slip matings can result in puppies, as long as the male has deposited his sperm in your bitch she can conceive, our HD free Serman import GSD stud had just one slip mating(te rest all had a tie) & the bitch had 11 puppies

Whilst I cannot comment on slip matings as all my dogs have tied sucessfully. I had an occasion once where my bitch in season opened the back door and got out in the garden with her mate. They tied before I even noticed.
And before you all jump on me I dont condone this and would normally supervise at all times. My point is accidents do happen, even to the best willed of us!!!!!

I realise you all care strongly for dogs and the breed as a whole you are all quite ruthless to newcomers on here!!!!!

> I realise you all care strongly for dogs and the breed as a whole you are all quite ruthless to newcomers on here!!!!!

This wasn't an"accidental"mating, it was a planned mating from two unhealth tested dogs

> you are all quite ruthless to newcomers on here!!!!!

No, not newcomers.  Old or new all that matters is they are breeding responsibly, then you will notice help and information pours forth :-)

ditto to the above comment
Well and truley noticed by a person who visits just out of interest..

Ditto,if your not in the "club" !!!!!!!!!

> if your not in the "club" !!!!!!!!!

The breed club? The club of responsible breeding?

My comment was a ditto to Isabel.

It is a compliment. I have received so much advise from here. Not always directly. I have asked and I have browsed but so far I have not gone away with out the information I needed.

Yes the club for responsible breeding