Last friday I took my assumed pregnant girl (she was mated 5 weeks previous and I was seeing signs) to the vets as I had noticed a black discharge, the vets took her straight through to xray as they suspected Pyo but wanted to check there were no puppies first.  No puppies showed up on the plate so she was diagnosed with Pyometra. I had worked at a vets a few years ago and had seen plenty of Pyo's and she was not showing any symptoms so I said not to spaying immediately, so they suggested antibiotics until today when their scanner came round. She has been having one and a half tablets of Noroclav twice daily since friday, have been keeping her quiet and watching her like a hawk for any signs of her condition deteriorating as the vets said bring her straight in for spaying if this happened.
Anyway, went to the vets for an ultrasound to see if her womb was filled with pus and found it filled with atleast 3 puppies! Thank god I didn't agree to the spay! I'm angry at myself for doubting her, I had already told the people on my waiting list she was pregnant I was so sure, but when a vet tells you different you believe them.  What I want to know is is this an easy mistake or should I be considering changing vets? Are the anti biotics she has been on puppy safe? and has anyone else experience black/brown discharge and still had a healthy litter? She has now been sent home with no antibiotics so I'm assuming the vets are no longer concerned that she originally went in with a discharge.

I must admit I'm losing faith in vets just recently but it is SO hard to find a breeder friendly vet. Fingers crossed for your litter -I don't like the sound of the discharge but have no experience of it.

Noroclav is safe in pregnancy.

I'm sure someone will be on soon that can help you more.  But, as I don't have my girls scanned, I have always gone with my "gut feeling" and find that my girls always let me know.  I am so glad that you went with instinct :-)  Good for you!

Not sure what I would do about changing vet.  I trust mine totally, but don't know how I would have felt if he told me to spay and it turned out the wrong advice.  I guess it would destroy my trust.  You need it in bucketloads with your vet don't you?

I don't think that there should be a problem with antibiotics, but stand corrected if wrong. Congratulations and very good wishes for a healthy litter.  Jean

No wonder we are loosing so much faith in our vets, so many, many examples in particular with breeding cock ups, this would have been one of the most disasterous, thank goodness you held off the spay.

I am just under the impression that vets whilst going through their training are given no experience whatsoever of the breeding side, IMO the best vets for us breeders are those which deal with cattle, the real hands on country vets tend to know so much more about dogs in whelp than the town practice vets.

I think whilst breeding it is always best to be surrounded by mentors and dog folk, vets offer an invaluable service and of course often save our dogs lives, but boy they have made plenty of boobs too, in their defence I guess they don't like to take chances.

As already said the antibiotics will do her no harm, good luck with the litter, all I can say is Phew!

I had a friends bitch here to whelp and she also had a green/black discharge for the last 3 weeks.
She gave birth to two healthy pups.  Both pups and Mum were fine.  Pups are now in the show ring.

> I am just under the impression that vets whilst going through their training are given no experience whatsoever of the breeding side, IMO the best vets for us breeders are those which deal with cattle, the real hands on country vets tend to know so much more about dogs in whelp than the town practice vets.
>

even then its touch and go... my parents country vet (sheep horse specialists) scanned their girl when she was having a very very long labour and said there were 2 pups left. initially they would not section despite saying a pup was in distress- she suffered brain damage due to lack of oxygen (the vet so caringly, and uninformedly, said who'd notice if a bullmastiff was brain damaged) and later died :( then they sectioned for the other and there was no second pup! 

> IMO the best vets for us breeders are those which deal with cattle, the real hands on country vets tend to know so much more about dogs in whelp than the town practice vets.

I must disagree with statement. I changed my vets from a country vet practice to another country vet practice. The second lot of vets seem to have much more time to discuss problems, so think it really depends on the vet you see. In my experience the best vets have been the older vets who have more experience than those just out of training. The older vet is more likely to listen to you, whereas the younger ones know everything ;-)

very confused... you;ve replied to me lindylou but quoted someone else...

I was told the same about my Jasmine a few years back, she was passing like a dark purple discharge and my vet felt her, then scanned her at 28 days and said no puppies, so she stayed on Synulox.  Two weeks passed and the vet scanned her again to make sure infection had cleared up and he told me there was one pup with a faint heartbeat and not to expect it to live.  Went back again for more synulox 2 weeks later (by this time she was 8 weeks) and told definitely one pup possibly 2............1 week later she whelped 7 big fat healthy pups!

> 1 week later she whelped 7 big fat healthy pups!

:-)  :-)  :-)

To Sashandme:
At five weeks the pups' skeletons aren't filled with enough calcium to show on an x-ray. The pups need to be seven weeks to bee seen. This I would expect a vet to know.

Anyway, concratulations to the upcoming litter! Fingers crossed everything goes well.
Best Wishes,
Karen

I think he did know that, a really nice nurse I was speaking too afterwards whispered to me that she had bred dogs for 30 years and had told him the pups would not have calcified yet, so no point xraying, and that she knew my girl was pregnant the minute we walked in! Wish I had had a consult with her!! I think it was a big money making ploy, its one of those chain of practices where the vets are always changing and they never speak very good english I think I shall look around and find a more traditional vet, even if it means travelling a bit further, although its a shame as that nurse alone would be worth going to see. My girl is OK in herself still, but still passing the discharge, although its more like dark blood than black and I only see it when she has a wee as it seems to wash a bit out. Would any of you continue the antibiotics? Once the vet saw puppies he decided all was well, forgetting the discharge, and said to stop them. I was so shocked at what had nearly happened and going from pyo to puppies that I didn't remind him about the discharge. But the reason I originally went to the vets is still there after an enormous bill grrr. I think I will be counting down to April the 18th when they are due, this is going to be a very stressful few weeks.

Astarte, I was answering Carrington, not you ;-)
The reply comes under the last post anyway, so I just added to the last one I read :-)

>The reply comes under the last post anyway, so I just added to the last one I read 

Best to press the 'Reply' link to the post you're actually replying to (and quoting the particular part you're replying to, just to be certain), not the last one on the thread so that the right person gets the notification of a reply. Just hitting 'Reply' on the last post has caused a lot of confusion in the past!

For instance, if you're replying to Carrington's post, don't press Reply on Astarte's post!

For instance, if you're replying to Carrington's post, don't press Reply on Astarte's post!

another dig at me :) grow up !

>another dig at me  grow up !

No dig - just a friendly, light-hearted explanation of how the system works, that's all! :-)

Does it really matter, it was clear who she was replying to.

Calm down girls, calm down!

>Does it really matter, it was clear who she was replying to.

Astarte was confused ... ;-)

Never mind, at least we all know now and the confusion won't happen again. :-)

im sure it will with me lol ...lack of sleep does strange things to me ;)

lol, sorry, knew you were replying to carrington but was confused as to how you quoted her but replied to me, i'd never seen that before :)

Sorry, hangs head in shame ;-)

Put it down to being a certain age and certain things starting to happen (I'm getting older :-D ) My brain wants to do one thing, but my body wants to do something else instead ;-) The hormones aer runnig riot :-)

I wasn't even replying to white lilly in the first place so I have no idea why she should tell me to grow up! Astarte was wondering why LindyLou had replied to her whilst quoting Carrington - white lilly wasn't even involved, so certainly no 'digs' were directed at her!

See what problems and confusion this misquoting lark can lead to? ;-)

i have pm you to explain :) ...

a post was taken away so i carnt show you :( x

lol lift your head, you seem to have managed to befuddle the way the forum works :D