Just a wee question

I have not noticed many Airedale owners on this forum and was wondering why ? or am I wrong ?

As I have one of , course I think they are great dogs.
They are-

1/ Very intelligent so easy to train
2/ Loyal
3/ Full of fun
4/ Great with children ( have been known to knock a few over with over enthusiastic greeting ! )
5/ Do not have many if any serious health issues

My girl gets on with most dogs and is not aggressive but have been told that they can occasionally be a bit off with smaller breeds ( my girl lives with 2 JRt'S and is allways the one who ends up without a toy or chew !!! )
I know they are a high energy breed and can be strong but as they are easily trained this is not really a problem

So IMO apart from the grooming side of things they are great dogs so why are they few and far between ?

What do you all think ?

All coments and opinions welcome and no offence will be taken to any negative ones !!! ( unless I get upset  Ha Ha !! )

Have to say that I don't see many Airedales in Somerset. 
When I was in Berkshire there were a good number because there was an excellent breeder in the area.  All that were sold locally as pets came in to be rolled every 8 weeks and owners found their coats easy as they were course coated and a quick brush with a slicker after a run in the woods and a comb through their beards after their dinner kept them in good condition.  The only nasty one that I've came across was pet bred and bore little resemblance to the breed standard. :(

Now don't take offence  - but the only two Airedales I have met seemed to take a real dislike to my 2 toy breed dogs! One especially almost got my girl run over by chasing her off a beach and into the car park before I caught her! The other one I used to meet on walks always lunged at them and growled. I expect these are not representative of the breed as a whole! I am sure yours is lovely! 

My nearest neighbour has a young airedale and quite an excitable chap he is.... no malice - just a handful :-)

No I know what you are saying.

Callie is great when she meets other dogs off the lead and generally is the biggest coward I have ever met but when she is in the back of the jeep she barks at other dogs and must look and sound quite wild.

She will sometimes growl at other dogs when she is on the lead , she gets told of when she does and then she is fine and will talk to the said dog, but really I think it is just a big show and as I am on the other end she thinks she can be tough !!!

I have heard other people saying that Airedales are agressive but after all they are terriers but big ones and As with all breeds I believe that they should be socialised when young and that any agressive or dominating behavior is nipped in the bud especially in big dogs. I expect I was stricktish with Callie when she was a pup and she does get to meet her doggie friends all the time so maybe that is why she is so good.

Also I find she is very vocal and does grumble alot even when she gets a cuddle but I know she is just moaning . However I know someone who ,if their Airedale grumbles they think she is being nasty and they let her away with with all sorts of things because they are frightened she may bite them !!! That is when the problems start and again it all comes down to badly  trained humans!!!

Are they , Airedales classed as a rare breed these days ?

> The only nasty one that I've came across was pet bred and bore little resemblance to the breed standard. :-(

Are you saying that the pet owners did not know what they were doing when they mated the dogs ? or that it was just not a good looking dog and the owners had not been very good at training and disciplining the dog. less why would being pet bred  rather than from an approved  breeder produce a bad resemblance of the breed standard dog ? As pet breeders can breed and produce good litters, my dogs owners were pet owners but they did do a lot af research before they let their dog have a litter and Callie is well up to the breed standard.

> a comb through their beards after their dinner kept them in good condition

That is if they don't find a couch or some ones leg to rub their beard on first !!! TEE HEE !!

>my dogs owners were pet owners but they did do a lot af research before they let their dog have a litter

So they bred for quality pups with great temprement rather then putting any dog to their bitch :)

As for not being popular, well thats just down to personal taste,  I own one of the 4 setters and the rarest at that....why do people buy a red setter when they could have a red and white?  Just personal taste and knowledge :)

Are you saying that the pet owners did not know what they were doing when they mated the dogs ?

Yes.  All pet owners think that their dogs are wonderful, and that's just the way it should be!  But that doesn't mean that they are good representatives of their breed.  It takes time and comparing a lot of the breed for a novice eye to be selective. 

When I went to my first show, apart from colour, I thought that all of my breed looked the same.  Once the differences were explained, then over time I could see that they were all in fact VERY different.

So the pet bred Airedale that I trimmed was the wrong shape - long in the body (very long coupled) and slab sided too.  It's head was very plain, broad in backskull and snipey in muzzle but most of that I could disguise with trimming! :)  But I couldn't disguise it's light eye that was too big!  All very untypical for an Airedale and so the soft coat and grumpy temperament (when the breed standard says something about them not being aggressive) was no surprise. :(

It's not easy for a pet owner whose only experience is their own dog, to interpret the breed standard.  Without experience you can read anything into the words and make them fit your own dog, which is why every owner thinks that their dog is correct and so I always recommend that anyone looking for a pet of any breed finds an experienced breeder and preferably one who shows.  As in all areas, there's always the odd exception.....  When a pet breeder says that they've checked that stud dog and their bitch are compatible, they normally mean that they have looked at the pedigrees and found no shared relatives!  That's exactly a mating that I try to avoid! :(

In the park (or grooming parlour) it's very easy to spot the pet bred dogs from the quality ones. :)

I have 2 Airedales. 

Our oldest is now 12 and was a rehome that we took on when he was aged 10.  He's still fit as a fiddle and settled in with us beautifully.  He has a great temperament, and although a handsome devil in our eyes, he is not great conformation wise (mad ears, soft coat, little rear angulation, too big all over).  He had never been off lead before coming to us but loves romping free now with only occasional old age/terrier related deafness.

Our youngest is just 18 months.  She is from a show breeder and is very typical of the breed and has been doing well in the show ring.  She also has a great temperament,very confident with personality plus but with no aggression whatsoever.  She bosses our old boy around, but I think he secretly rather likes it (plus he came from a house with 2 females, so knows his lot in life!).

Our two play happily with dogs of all sizes.  I don't think our boy realises how big he is, and loves puppies and small dogs and cries if they don't want to say hello to him.

We know lots of Airedales through showing and also a grooming class we go to monthly in Somerset (Westcoast,you obviously don't live in that Somerset village or you would regularly see 15 or so Airedales running around and playing in a village hall yard, quite a sight!). 

I only get 2 Airedales in to trim, there are hardly any around my area NE Scotland, and I love Airedales, would definately own one or two!!

Westcoast,you obviously don't live in that Somerset village or you would regularly see 15 or so Airedales running around and playing in a village hall yard, quite a sight!. 

No I don't but I'd love to see that! :) :)

I have to say that when i worked in kennels there was the most nasty, horrid airedale- I dreaded her coming in and as I was management I was the one who had to deal with her as the other staff were too scared. She was fine once the lead was on but trying to get it on without being bitten was a nightmare. She stayed at the same kennels for over 10 years at least once a month so she was relaxed and happy in the environment-just didnt like anyone but her owners!!

The ones I have known (not many) have been lovely.  One of the nicest lived with a Border and both were lovely well trained boys friendly toward other dogs, and both entire.

There's a man who walks a lovely Airedale bitch (called Lola) past our house most weekends. She is lovely and friendly with people and with other dogs, but she doesn't listen to a word her owner says :-D

> Yes.  All pet owners think that their dogs are wonderful, and that's just the way it should be!  But that doesn't mean that they are good representatives of their breed.  It takes time and comparing a lot of the breed for a novice eye to be selective. 
>
>

> It's not easy for a pet owner whose only experience is their own dog, to interpret the breed standard.  Without experience you can read anything into the words and make them fit your own dog, which is why every owner thinks that their dog is correct and so I always recommend that anyone looking for a pet of any breed finds an experienced breeder and preferably one who shows.  As in all areas, there's always the odd exception..... 

Are you saying this is what I think about my Pet Airedale and that as I do not show and got my dog from an Airedale home that was also a pet and only bred 3 litters from her dog , I do not have an eye for a well bred dog ? Because some people have an eye for this sort of thing and do know what they should be looking for in a specific breed like myself !

> When a pet breeder says that they've checked that stud dog and their bitch are compatible, they normally mean that they have looked at the pedigrees and found no shared relatives!  That's exactly a mating that I try to avoid! :-(
>
>

So you would breed from dogs that had shared relatives ? And can you be sure that the pet breeder had not done more research than you are giving them credit for and the dog was just one who turned out not to be show quality as happens with experienced breeders too ?

> All very untypical for an Airedale and so the soft coat and grumpy temperament (when the breed standard says something about them not being aggressive) was no surprise. :-(
>
>

Do you think that when I said my dog grumbled that I meant she had a grumpy temperament ? all or most airedales are very vocal and grumbling is part of their language ! it does not mean that they are agressive they are just talking and is one of the breed traits along with [i]singing and barking just to make people jump that is just their way of having fun and getting your attention.It is what they are all about they all have very strong characters Ask any Airedale owner.

Any way ------ my origional post was what do you think of Airedales as a breed and  not on whether pet bred dogs were representative of the breed or how you can tell a pet bred dog from one bred by an experienced breeder.

So do you like them as a Breed or not !!!

lilacbabe i think you've read that post with a particular slant and are reacting a bit strongly.

the poster was saying what the majority of this forum think, that a dog should be compared against its peers and judged by experts before breeding. i don't think they were attacking you, just voicing that perhaps the number of incorrect airdales appear because of pet breedings.

> I do not have an eye for a well bred dog ? Because some people have an eye for this sort of thing and do know what they should be looking for in a specific breed like myself !
>

without wishing to start an argument, how do you know you have an eye for that sort of thing? i'm not suggesting you don;t, just asking how you can know if thats not been tested?

> and only bred 3 litters from her dog

thats not a tiny amount actually.

> So you would breed from dogs that had shared relatives ?

whats wrong with line breeding? no one said close relatives but related animals is fine, it's the best way to gain a specific trait.

The Airdale Terriers I've come across have all been lovely dogs. They seem less "terrier like" than other terrier breeds. (no offence meant) Very nice around other dogs, and rock steady temperament wise. When I was a child, in the sixties, the Airdale Terrier was a very popular breed here. Nowadays you very seldom come across one. If I had to own a terrier breed, it would definitely be an Airdale :-)

Hi Astarte

I am not acting strongly but what kind of slant do you think I have taken on westcoasts post (No argument intended here either ) Apart from the fact that everyone else has just comented on Airedale dogs they have met , talking about their temperaments and whether they thought they were nice dogs or not .The origional post was what do you think of Airedales not whether a pet bred dog was a good example of the breed or whether Westcoast could tell a pet bred dog or one bred from an experienced breeder.

> without wishing to start an argument, how do you know you have an eye for that sort of thing? i'm not suggesting you don;t, just asking how you can know if thats not been tested?
>

There are no argument issues with me here again but Why does it have to be tested ?  having an eye for a good bred dog does not neccessarily mean owning one ,showing and winning,but I have shown and won. Yes it may not have been at a champ show as I have never had the opportunity to do so but I do know a crufts judge who has told me that my dog is a good example of the breed and I should show her more at dog shows.
I have worked both with horses ( Riding and in hand classes and won with both my horses ) and dogs all my life and I would say that I know a good looking, well bred animal when I see one. I know everyone thinks their pets are the best , but I also have 2 other dogs who are sisters and one of them I show at local shows and the other I dont as she is just not quite up to scratch so have never aven attempted to show her.

>> thats not a tiny amount actually.

>
>

I did not say that it was a tiny amount but she let her dog have 3 litters as she allways produced good pups and she had waiting lists for them because of this. she had her last litter last year and will not be having any more.

>> whats wrong with line breeding? no one said close relatives but related animals is fine, it's the best way to gain a specific trait

I never said that line breeding was wrong but there is also nothing wrong with trying a completely new breed line to add new blood so to speak ,  in to the breed. When I was looking for a stud dog for my girl it was very hard to find one as the pedigrees  of dogs I looked at and researched were IMO getting too close. I was also advise by my vet to try and look for a dog who was in no way related no matter how far back in the pedigree . This I eventually found and the breeder was in Ireland as all the breeders in Great Britain all had some sort of connection. I may add I have not as yet bred with my Girl as I am still having a good old think about things stud dogs , financial climate ,demand etc etc .

Also the poster had no real proof of what parentage the said dog she was talking about came from. She was obviously making assumptions because it was a pet bred dog.

> They seem less "terrier like" than other terrier breeds. (no offence meant)

They are not as yappy as the some of the small terrier types but they still love to hunt bunnies and dig holes. They are just too big to get down them  TEE HEE . They do have a slightly  "I am the best" kind of attitude and will act all snobish at times trying to pretend that they are not really a terrier and Would NEVER think of acting silly and running about looking for rabits !!!

Perhaps that is why the name King of Terriers is so appropriate. They should just take alook at themselves after they have been digging in a big maddy hole, love them ! and they are always doing something to make you laugh

lilacbabe, you seem to be confused.  My reply was to your question "Are you saying that the pet owners did not know what they were doing when they mated the dogs ?" which is why my post starts with your question, not your original post.

And you make a lot of wrong assumptions about my knowledge of the dogs that I talk about.  But your post speak volumes about your understanding of the breed and breeding in general. :)

I am going to steal Dollface's signature quote - I don't argue. :)

We had neighbours many years ago who had an Airedale called Champ, he was a brilliant dog, so friendly and very well behaved yet I'm not a big fan of terriers!

They do seem to have fallen out of favour.  If we had a pound for every eldery person who's said "oooh, we used to have an Airedale" or younger people saying their parents or grandparents had one I'd be able to afford to buy another!

IME opinions may be varied on a breed if experiences are solely of one or t'other, i.e. a long line of pet produced -v- long line of show/work lines.  In any breed there are natural differences in make, shape, temperament and stamp even among the best bred show and working lines and anyone with wide ranging knowledge of various dogs in a breed from differing breeding/backgrounds is better placed to have an educated opinion on a breed in general :)

I've met some lovely out and out pet bred examples of some breeds which have the sweetest of natures and are clearly happy, healthy dogs but they often (but not always) don't bear much resemblance to the breed they allegedly represent.  That matters not if it's a healthy, good natured and loving family companion but anyone who has fallen in love with a particular breed of dog on the appearance of the 'real deal' may well be disappointed if their puppy is taller, shorter, or longer and leggier than the dog they expected or has a totally different head and expression because of a snipey muzzle, droopy eyes, converging or flapping ears which were expected to be erect etc .... hopefully that explains what I mean :)

As to my own opinion on Airedales, I think they look magnificent and majestic and I love to watch them on the move however of the few I've met up close and personal (6 or so outwith shows), sadly all have been very aggressive to other dogs and one more than a little dodgy with people too :(   However the show bred ones that I've met seem calmer but perhaps just better trained and/or contained :-p therefore in my fairly limited experience of the breed I'm wary of them but less so if they are bred by established and knowledgeable breeders.

As it happens I prefer long coated breeds and don't like fiesty temperaments in general so that rules out a lot of terriers - although there are some exceptions which have me sorely tempted ;)  From what I can gather the Airedale is potentially a high maintenance breed and already having one of those (for my sins LOL) I'd steer clear of another should I be tempted to widen my interests!

Yours sounds as though you've got yourself a darling and that's what matters most!   As to wider opinions, Viva la difference :)
regards, Teri

> Apart from the fact that everyone else has just comented on Airedale dogs they have met , talking about their temperaments and whether they thought they were nice dogs or not .The origional post was what do you think of Airedales not whether a pet bred dog was a good example of the breed or whether Westcoast could tell a pet bred dog or one bred from an experienced breeder.
>

you seem to have read an aggressive tone into westcoasts post, though of course perhaps i'm reading your reponse wrongly myself :) you say here that everyone else has been commenting on the breed and seem to think that westcoasts post is on a tangent to this. i took from the post that westcoast feels her view of the breed has been skewed by badly bred examples being in the majority, which i think is a perfectly reasonable statement.

> There are no argument issues with me here again but Why does it have to be tested ?

because just believing your good at something is not an indicator that you are so. i'm not saying your not but for example have you ever watched the first episodes of the X Factor where they do the first cut? see how many awful singers think they are the next whitney houston :) this can also be said for many (of course not all) pet breeders. Showing introduces a Simon to the mix :)

Astarte - what a brilliant way of explaining dog showing :-)  (X-Factor is so cringeworthy in the early days lol)

lol, its true though- we all thing our dogs are gorgeous but we are biased and as such can be poor judges. though once i get into showing i hope i never meet the dog showing worlds simon!

I think many of us know that we take the best dog home at the end of the day but if you have a critical eye you can also look at your dog and know it's good points and bad (or not so good) points, same when you are watching judging from the ringside but that doesn't tell you what the dog is like hands on. My mum has been showing dogs for 20 odd years now and doesn't judge but knows a good one from a bad one. I breed and show rabbits and she will come into my shed and tell me which ones she likes, usually the ones that have done the winning at stock (breed) shows! I think taht a lot of folk have an eye for a good speciment be it rabbits, dogs, cows horses or whatever.

> once i get into showing i hope i never meet the dog showing worlds simon!

LOL - you could do a lot worse ;)  He's honest, doesn't mince his words, doesn't suffer fools gladly (with exception of Paula Abdul pew-uke), appreciates qualities present but needing time to bring on, and pretty much hits the nail on the head everytime when it comes to finding the true star! 

Now that's a good judge :)

Lol, but we don't want to run out of the ring crying Teri :-) (although you are quite right of course)

Ah but dog show judges aren't permitted to do a running commentary so the barbed remarks would be kept for the critiques!

sorry rjs, i didn't mean it to sound like no one but a judge can pick a dog. i was simply trying to clarify why judging is important.

also i am a dark and busty lass so he'd be nice to me lol

> Lol, but we don't want to run out of the ring crying Teri :-) (although you are quite right of course)

it would be awful reading the reviews! imagine how much venom he could get in writing rather than a quick comment!!

> They seem less "terrier like" than other terrier breeds. (no offence meant)

That would be the hound in them.  I've got Welsh and if I was given a £1 everytime someone told me I'd got small Airedale's I'd be a rich woman.  For personal taste they're way too goofy when young and seem to slow down quickly as they get older.

> And you make a lot of wrong assumptions about my knowledge of the dogs that I talk about.  But your post speak volumes about your understanding of the breed and breeding in general. :-)
>

I believe you do have a lot of knowledge , I am not disputing that but we  always seem to dissagree  on things no mater what topic I post on here.

Did you mean I seem to know what I am talking about or that I have not got a clue?

Just asking as I do not want to take your comment the wrong way.

lilacbabe probably best not to turn this into something unnecessarily personal.

It's easy to find some posts or individual posters confusing - perhaps that's all that's happened here.  Only a couple of weeks ago you were asking "do you have to take the dogs inocculation cert to shows and I expect that kennel cough is one of the the ones that is needed is this correct ?"
yet in this thread you've stated that you've "shown and won before" - which is a bit confusing too but there's probably a perfectly simple and logical explanation :)

You've got a bit het up at what you perceived to be a criticism of your breed - not everybody likes our chosen breeds as much as us or perhaps may only like certain lines within some breeds.  No big deal and NOT personal - happens at dog shows and working trials all the time!

> I do know a crufts judge who has told me that my dog is a good example of the breed

Hah hah, this reminds me of an occasion when I was stopped on the seafront by 'a Crufts judge' who insisted that I was walking a fabulous example of her breed and would buy her like a shot. Luckily I loved the ugly old bag or I would have taken the money and run. :-)

> Luckily I loved the ugly old bag or I would have taken the money and run.

classic :-D 

'Crufts judges' seem to come out of the woodwork when we least expect - but never at Crufts nor come to think of it at any CC show in our lifetime where we could scoop the top spot with our 'fabulous examples' :-p

> because just believing your good at something is not an indicator that you are so. i'm not saying your not but for example have you ever watched the first episodes of the X Factor where they do the first cut? see how many awful singers think they are the next whitney houston :-) this can also be said for many (of course not all) pet breeders. Showing introduces a Simon to the mix :-)

Understand what you are getting at but I am not one for making a fool out of myself and if I did not think I had an eye for telling a good dog , horse etc from a bad one I would be the first to admit that I had'nt got a clue. 

OH and I would not go on X factor either as even my Callie can sing better than me !!!! > :-)

Also it was not the comment about the breed that bothered me ,it was the fact that the words Pet bred were refered to  as IMO pet owners are not the only ones who can breed nasty dogs.

> if I did not think I had an eye for telling a good dog , horse etc from a bad one I would be the first to admit that I had'nt got a clue. 

I think Astarte's point was - that many people truly believe they have a gift or talent and are quite shocked to be told they dont.

>I think Astarte's point was - that many people truly believe they have a gift or talent and are quite shocked to be told they dont.

They might be the people who think all judges are facey ... :-D

I think Astarte's point was - that many people truly believe they have a gift or talent and are quite shocked to be told they dont.

Absolutely.  Just like many pet breeders sincerely think that they are producing quality pups ... :)

Well there were 865 Airedale Terriers KC registered in 2008 so they aren't that uncommon. :)

> If we had a pound for every eldery person who's said "oooh, we used to have an Airedale" or younger people saying their parents or grandparents had one I'd be able to afford to buy another!

LOL, the only Airdale I've ever met was my best mates grandparents dog, when I was a very young. He was a very handsome dog. :)

Now you mention it I am on the look out for them. Met one this morning, he seemed nice, however his poor owner looked so fed up his dog wouldn't recall and managed to duck him even when we stopped for a doggy chat and was steadily walking his way back to the car(the dog not the owner)I just hope he got hold of him then

sorry lillacbabe i didn't get notification that you'd replied- i take it you didn't actually reply to me?

i'm still of the view that no matter how good anyones individual eye may or may not be choosing to breed should take the views of many into consideration

sorry Astarte
still havent really got this replying thing right and I did mean to send you the reply

sure understand what you are saying. I would not breed without taking other peoples views . I understand it is very important to get it right and that is why I have spoken to other breeders ,vets, people on here etc and done my research, have had people see Callie and now I feel that I am ready to take her to some showsto see how she gets on. As for breeding that can wait for the time being.

If I am told she is not up to breed standard I will be the first to admit I was wrong but I am confident enough that I will do ok otherwise I would not even bother to take her.

> Now you mention it I am on the look out for them. Met one this morning, he seemed nice, however his poor owner looked so fed up his dog wouldn't recall and managed to duck him even when we stopped for a doggy chat and was steadily walking his way back to the car(the dog not the owner)I just hope he got hold of him then

Thank goodness I dont have that problem. Callie is really good , as for one of my JR'Ts if she smells a rabbit she gets selective hearing !!

> I think Astarte's point was - that many people truly believe they have a gift or talent and are quite shocked to be told they dont

I expect there are a few like that but you have to have a bit of confidence in yourself or there would be no point in showing !