Hi there

My bitch finally came into season.  She had her first blood test last Tuesday and then on Friday.  They showed she was in pre-eostrus and to test in 2 days.  On Sunday my neutered male was showing a real interest in her so phoned the stud dog owner and we decided to take her down to try the mating.  She was due another blood test today.  There was lots of flirting etc., but the dogs kept losing interest when something distracted them.

Had her back for blood test today and it showed that she had ovulated and proceed to mating.  Both dogs are maiden.  I am planning on taking her back to the stud dog tomorrow morning and we will try again.

What sort of problems may I encounter with 2 maiden dogs and what help can anybody give me.  I've never been involved in a mating before and the stud dog's husband works away so it will be just the dog of us there tomorrow.  I don't want to miss this as I've waited 5 years for just the right dog, pedigree etc., and a lot of work has gone into research, health testing, showing etc., etc., 

I would really appreciate any help that you can give so that I can do all I can to ensure everything is done correctly.

Oh what a worry!!!!  Its very exciting but also very stressful.

Thanks in advance.

Kingdom

Well you have about 48 hours from ovulation until the eggs are actually fertilise and many males won't mate a bitch until then.  You have about another two days while the eggs are still viable.

In my breed with my girls it seems to be many of the males prefer the bitches to have reached the ripe egg stage before they will mate.

I have used maiden dogs and once had an older maiden male (had failed to mate my difficult bitch), two years later he mated a maiden bitch fine.

I have found discreet supervising the key and allowing the dogs to get comfortable with each other so the bitch is not to skittish as this will worry/discourage many maiden dogs.

If the dog is mounting but getting over excited and getting it wrong then removing the bitch for half an hour and trying again can help as is spreading your hands under her tummy and ensuring he is able to aim in the right spot, someone giving a shove from behind if he is aiming from too far, can also help, as will not allowing him to dismount too quickly once he has actually mated the bitch, so that a tie can occur.

Hi Kingdom

I know what you mean about the stress, I too have planned this litter for a long time and have done so much research into prospective stud dogs health and temperament tests to find exactly what I was looking for!  My bitch then came into season a lot earlier than expected so we had to change the stud dogs at the last minute.  She was a maiden but the stud was experienced and although the tests said go for it she became very worried and wouldn't mate, he was a bit full on and that made her nervous so we had to go for AI.  Fingers crossed it was successful!  I hope all goes well for you, and as Brainless said try to get the dogs comfortable with each other, good luck.

Jan

I see you're in France, Jan. You might not know that the British KC has strict rules about the use of AI, and it certainly wouldn't be approved under these circumstances, meaning any pups couldn't be registered.

Hi there

Thank you for your replies.  I think the trip on Sunday has made us both really nervous that it won't work!  My bitch isnt worried at all and seemed to quite like the stud dog so I suppose the trip on Sunday will have made them both feel more comfortable with one another.  He didnt phase her at all.  There was lots of playing and turning and even humping of her front leg!  What's that all about??????  I reckon if she ovulated yesterday then tomorrow will be a great time to try again.  I thought it would be really straightforward but while she seemed receptive as soon as he made any moves she jumped back and started playing with him.  Is that normal if she's not ready?

Wish me luck tomorrow.  I'll probably not sleep tonight!  I can't imagine why there are so many puppies born each year because it doesnt seem as easy as people make out!!  LOL

Kingdom

You may have to hold her head to stop her playing around. The stud dog owner may have to help him get into the right position. ;-)

I had a maiden bitch mated by a maiden dog 2 years ago. They were allowed to run around and play for about half an hour before I held my girl. She still didn't let him mate at first (she sat down :-) ) and he kept trying to get it all wrong and just mucked around. I was told to take her out through the gate, leaving him behind thinking she was going away. They were tied within seconds :-D He really didn't want her to go away. Is the stud dog owner experienced? It might help to have someone experienced to help out.

Hi Lindylou

No, neither of us are experienced.  The stud dog owner's husband normally does the stud work and he works away.  It had to happen that he would be away when my girl was ready wouldn't it?  I think the two of us are concerned that we get something wrong and somebody said that if my girl sits down she'll ruin the stud dog for life.  Obviously I want to make it as relaxed and enjoyable for them both as possible but I'm scared I'll do something wrong and do some damage.

Kingdom

Can neither of you invite an experienced stud dog owner to the mating, someone the dog knows. You can prevent your bitch sitting by putting your hand flat under her tummy with fingers spread out into her groin with two fingers either side of her vulva.  This way you will be able to tell if the male is hitting the spot and hopefully keep her in position for him.

Thank you again for replying.

Well, we had somebody on call at the weekend but the test showed that she was still pro-oestrus on Friday so we called them off.  We decided to go ahead yesterday thinking she had ovulated because of the interest of my neutered dog.  Because its midweek its quite difficult for either of us to get anybody with experience hence the problem.

I think we are probably both just worrying needlessly but I think the trip on Sunday made us both quite despondent and left us thinking that we were doing something wrong.  My neutered dog is a lot more interested in my girl today and she is standing firm for him.  There's not as much prancing around as yesterday so perhaps it was just the wrong time.

I'll just have to wait and see how it goes tomorrow.  Wish me luck!  I'll be absolutely gutted if it doesnt happen.  As I've said I've waited 5 years for this and have done so much work in preparation.  I don't think there's a pedigree in the UK that I couldn't recite back to you!!!! LOL

Thank you
Kingdom

Fingers crossed, if she is standing firm for the neutered boy sounds promising that she will give the boy enough confidence to get on with the job.

Where in the UK are you and where is the stud dog

If, as in the case of the above post by JanW that the dog and bitch were together and she just wouldn't let him mate her and they did AI - how would anyone know that pups were conceived by AI and not naturally?
 

It's down to the honesty and integrity of the breeder and stud dog owner. Unfortunately there will always be cheats and fraudsters. :-(

To be honest, if a person has never managed a normal mating there's no way they'd be able to deal with a sperm collection and AI!

> To be honest, if a person has never managed a normal mating there's no way they'd be able to deal with a sperm collection and AI!

I was told that in order to take a sample you need a bottle of something strong, which you drink prior to collection ;-) , plenty of towels (for the floor) and a very good friend :-D Oh, and a good sense of humour ;-) and another bottle of the something strong to drink afterwards, after you have managed to control the fit of giggles. As I am hoping to do a collection soon I'll let you know if it's true :-D

> To be honest, if a person has never managed a normal mating there's no way they'd be able to deal with a sperm collection and AI!

I would imagine that is why Paris is asking.

I was also wondering where you were, know a man who can :)  Takes all the stress and worry away from you to!

>I would imagine that is why Paris is asking.

I would imagine it's to make sure they're not tempted to break the rules about AI, which might happen if they're not told that the KC needs to approve the procedure in advance, and the dog and bitch mustn't both live in the UK.

We don't want people to think it's an acceptable routine procedure when it isn't.

Hope it went well.  My Dad has just taken a bitch to be mated and he hasn't got much eperiance and the stud owner had a little, however it wasn't needed, although both dog and bitch where maiden they only took 10 or so mins first day, second day only a couple till two great ties!

There we where worrying about them both being maidens when we didn't have to!

Also we did the swaps insted of the blood tests and vet must have got the timings right for us! :-D

Previous posts by Paris "Best of luck I hope in that case none of your members will have need to start topics such as this one ,re "is my bitch in pups coz we have not had a proper mating".I was attempting to offer advice based on my own experience but obviously it is not welcome" and "If you think that AI does not go on within the KC then think again,many of your "Top KC show breeders " cannot afford for their bitch to miss"

Perhaps looking to get involved rather than "to make sure they're not tempted to break the rules about AI"

Mmm, for a fee, no questions asked, forms completed fraudulently, you mean?

> no questions asked

I couldn't possibly comment ;-)

The reason why I was asking is that there is a wealth of experience on this forum and I thought that just maybe there would be someone on here that lived close by and would be able to physically assist the OP with the mating.
Unfortunately,having re read this topic from the beginning it appears that two posters merely saw it as an opportunity to launch a personal attack on me.More to the point neither of these two added anything to the topic which would assist the OP

Regards

> More to the point neither of these two added anything to the topic which would assist the OP

I think pointing out the circumstances in which AI is not permitted by the KC is entirely relevent.

The OP was asking for help and advice with a natural mating.
Can you help her,or are you wishing just to continue fanning the flames.
The last couple of comments made by the two posters,as,I am sure you are aware;defamatory but I shall take them as made in jest. 

I responded to your comment that I have highlighted.

My original post contain precisely 7 of my words...all the others were your own Paris...hardly defamatory.

On my second post I declined to comment as you have already made your feelings on the subject abundantly clear.

>The OP was asking for help and advice with a natural mating.

Yes, which was why the suggestion by another poster that in similar circumstances they'd used AI was one where it should be pointed out that it's not acceptable as a routine procedure, which is very relevant to the OP.

Sorry I opened a can of worms, didn't mean to wasn't even giving advice just saying what happened to us!  Now I know why I don't post very often, apologies to all concerned didn't want to start a mud slinging post!  Have asked for my account to be closed that way I can't cause any more problems. 
Jan

jan dont do that !!! you havnt done anything wrong , xx

I agree. JanW you have not done anything wrong and I am sorry that you now feel your account should be removed. I hope you will reconsider and not allow these comments to drive you away. If any accounts should be removed, it is not yours.