Hi everyone, i have a very awkward situation here regarding a puppy i bought from a respected breeder. About a month after bringing her home she went lame, with no accident ,injury etc,x rays confirmed ocd in both stifle joints  she was 5 months old and as it was so bad in one of her knees she had had to undergo surgery to remove the overgrown fragmented cartiledge,she is due to go back for furthur xrays to see how both joints are doing,my problem is that as the prognosis is guarded and it can get alot worse,if the next xrays show more surgery required what would be the best plan of action so to speak,from the surgeons report it looks like she will have to be on constant inflammatory pain killers and will definately have osteoarthiritis, shes only a baby ,the breeder has offered to have her back  after knowong about this for a month but i almost get the impression from her that im not doing the best for my pup and was i sure that the treatment and diagnosis was right etc, I have told her that if things get too bad i will consider having my wee darling pts as i feel it would be kinder, the breeder doesnt want that to happen understandably so has told me that she would have her back . It feels as though she doesnt trust my judgement and im quite offended by it,why are some things shoved under the carpet and breeders arent really taking responsibility. Unfortunately what makes it more difficult is that she is a friend and has been in the breed for many years . I dont want to rock the boat and be classed as a trouble maker within the breed community but it would be nice to be able to ask if anyone else has this  problem and maybe get heads together to help. Question is do i return the puppy or carry on and trust my own judgement?  There is no test for this in our breed
Thanks for reading my speil  Sorry if i was rambling a bit  I would just would like some breeders thoughts

i'm sorry about your pup. i hope treatment helps.

In honesty it sounds like you know what you want to do, your going ahead with treatment and will consider pts when and if it becomes so severe (which sounds about right to me, what else can you do??). Your breeders opinion differs from yours (though i can't see how- what does she intend if the condition is dibilitating?)-so what? you've listened to her views i'm sure and since you took a dog from her i would think you trust her opinion but in this case disagree. Your the only one who can make the decision on what to do with your girl so don;t be put off by the breeders views if you are goign against them for a reason.

> why are some things shoved under the carpet and breeders arent really taking responsibility

not sure what you mean by this if there is no test for this in the breed? is it something thats been known in the line?

> I dont want to rock the boat and be classed as a trouble maker within the breed community but it would be nice to be able to ask if anyone else has this  problem and maybe get heads together to help

thats not troublemaking, thats trying to fix a problem.

don't panic yet, see how things go with treatment for your pup, it might be perfectly manageable- i certainly hope so for you and your pup.

As far as I'm aware there is no test for OCD until it starts to show, usually at about 4-6 months of age. The only tests anyone can do is to health test the parents by x-raying the hips and elbows, but there aren't any other x-rays that are recommended by the BVA/KC. I bred a litter that had ED/OCD problems. Both parents were hips scored under the breed average, and the dam was also elbow scored (0). What more can a breeder do at the time? As to what the breeder can do now, what do you want her to do? She has offered to take the pup back. If it were mine I would take it to my own vet (which I did with one of the said pups I bred) and get my own vet to check it out. Then take his advise. That pup is now on metacam, and glucosamine tablets, but still manages to put his house mates to shame when out on a walk ;-) He does have a funny gait, and will probably end up with arthritis when he gets older, but his quality of life is still good. He is almost 2 years old now.

My advise to you is wait and see what the vets recommend. It might not be as bad as you first think.

Why do you think that the breeder does not trust your judgement because she/he will take the puppy back?
My thoughts on this (and I could be wrong) are that the breeder is taking total responsibility for the pup!

I do think you need to wait and see, don't jump into having the puppy pts some dogs can lead a good and happy life even if not 100% healthy. 

I agree with Perry.  I see it as the breeder taking full responsibility.  What would you like the breeder to do?  Say "do what you like, I dn't care"?

Thanks for the replies What i was meaning was that the breeder was not accepting the fact that the puppy has ocd and waited a month before suggesting having her back that is not to me taking much responsibility and it was the fact she was questioning a specialist report and my care. Of course i dont want her not to care .This problem i have since found out has appeared in her lines before.I am a breeder myself and i would not wait for a month before trying to help or even acknowledge there was a problem.
She has more or less left me to sort it out myself she wasnt interested in her vet having a look at the pup either. Im sorry if this seems like a responsible breeder to you but it does not to me.Maybe i hadnt worded my post too well.
I would just like her to accept the fact there is a problem,

At 5 months old, I would also say wait and see what how things develop and not rush into any surgery or invasive treatment unless the dog was in a lot of pain and certainly not without seeing a specialist.  Maybe because of her experience, it's not such an unreasonable suggestion?  Maybe she knows that her Vet knows little about OCD?  Many don't unless they've seen it before. 
And unless they have a large kennel, it's not always possible for a breeder to immediately take back a puppy before juggling their situation to make it suitable.
There are lots of maybes here because we can only read between the lines of what you tell us but it sounds to me as though she's offered to take her puppy back because she's not happy with the treatment (not your care) the the pup is being given?

> I have told her that if things get too bad i will consider having my wee darling pts as i feel it would be kinder, the breeder doesnt want that to happen understandably so has told me that she would have her back

I too would have her back if she were one of mine. As a breeder I would want to know, for my own peace of mind, that there was nothing else to be done or what the alternatives were, especially if I was told you were going to put her down?

> It feels as though she doesnt trust my judgement and im quite offended by it,

Don't be offended, as a responsible breeder she is giving you the opportunity to release the responsibilty of what could be a heartbreaking decision.

> why are some things shoved under the carpet and breeders arent really taking responsibility

why do you think she is going to 'shove things uner the carpet'?

> Unfortunately what makes it more difficult is that she is a friend and has been in the breed for many years

As a friend, and someone who has been 'respected' in  the breed many years, I think she would be deeply offended that you see her in that way.

> Question is do i return the puppy or carry on and trust my own judgement?

Personally I would hope that we (as breeder and owner) could sit down and talk and come to an agreeable situation.
If the friend is willing to have the puppy back, pay for the treatment etc, then I would think this is would be seen as being responsible?

As a breeder who has had problems with ED/OCD I was in denial for the first few days. I just couldn't believe what the vet had said. I spoke to other breeders, and searched the internet for information. Once it all sank in I then went through the phase of never wanting to breed again, to get rid of my dogs and never have a dog again (didn't do that ;-) ) and hating everyone who had bred in the past, thus creating a problem that cropped up in this litter. I eventually came to realise that we are talking about living animals. As in humans, no-one can predict what is going to happen when we breed. You could breed form the best dogs with the best results, where there is no history of problems, and end up with a cripple. Unfortunately that's life.

If the dogs quality of life is such that there is no quality of life then the best thing is to PTS. This was discussed with the vet about the dog I have mentioned previously. In the end we decided to give him a chance of life, but he does see the vet regularly. If at any time it appears that his quality has changed then we will take that final decision, but for now he loves, and lives, life to the full. He is a happy dog. He chases around like there was nothing wrong. We know he won't live as long as he could have, but he will have a good life for the few years he is with us.

You really need to go back to your friend, once you have gone through all the pain you are feeling, and discuss the best way to go forward. It is heartbreaking, both as an owner and as a breeder, to know that this has happened. Maybe your friend is also in shock, and is trying her best to find a way out of it for both of you. She could be trying to save you the heartbreak of having to PTS. Even though it hurts breeders are aware that sometimes it has to be done.

> As far as I'm aware there is no test for OCD until it starts to show, usually at about 4-6 months of age

i didn't think so

We all develop relationships with our vets and breeders are likely to have a lot of of history and experience of their own vet.

You might want to consider offering to take your pup to to your breeder/friends vets for a 2nd opinion OR inviting her to a consultation with yours.  This will give her the opportunity to challenge or question the diagnosis which may be all that's needed for her to accept and understand the situation.