If a dog and bitch have no patella problems, can they still produce a pup between them that has luxated patellas?

Yes, it can still be within the lines and so depends what lies behind them...I am beginning to realise that luxating patellas are one area where Breeders are refusing to face up to facts! Not you I might add, because you obviously are!

I feel quite strongly about the trait!  I bought a Toy Poodle years ago, and had a great time doing obedience and tracking with her (just to prove I could!)  :-)

When the knees went, they went bad  :-(   Her screaming was awful.  Had a super surgeon, and the operation was a huge success.  I obviously had her spayed.  But when you still see the breeder at Cruft's, and you know that she is still breeding from the line.  Grrrr!!  Get off your soapbox Jean.  :-o

However, it is because so many toy breeds do have the problem, that I have my boys and girls tested.  I would have loved a pup from my poodle, but couldn't, in all conscience do that.  I have had an email today from someone that had a pup from me about 10 months ago.  Neither parent have any patella problems.  The sire has never produced a litter with problems.  With the bitch, she had a difficult birth, and I had her spayed afterwards, so not lots of pups to compare with.  But I still have her, and she races around no problems.  I was asking, in case she could actually be carrying the problem, and how would I know? 

This person says her vet has told her that the dog has a displaced patella.  The dog wasn't bought as a show dog, so, as a pet, I didn't think they would want me to have it back.  I emailed immediately assuring them that I would contribute to vet costs should an operation be the route they take.  Although I don't have to worry about the dam producing more pups, I feel terrible that nothing was picked up on the pup when the litter was vet checked. 

Ohh dear, what a shame eh?

It really annoys me in Yorkies, we are so blessed with hardly any health problems, yet they still seem willing to ignore the problem? :-(

Just as a thought, I have a friend whose mini schnauzer developed displaced patellas as he matured.  Their vet told them it was most likely because he spent all day running up and down the steps of their near vertical terraced garden.  It was because some of his thigh muscles were much more highly developed than the opposite ones and were pulling his patellas out of place :(

So it's possible that exercise could play a part in the development of this condition in a similar way to HD ;)

Different scenario but same thing that makes me mad - one of my dogs was recently diagnosed with Pemphigus Foliaceus - although not your normal staight forward case (only pads and nails affected).  I have contacted through email someone who owns her litter brothers and uses them at stud but have had no reply and no doubt they will continue to use them and let other people use them without telling them about the problem a big grrr from me too!!

So yes I would be abit annoyed aswell!

> I have contacted through email someone who owns her litter brothers and uses them at stud but have had no reply and no doubt they will continue to use them and let other people use them without telling them about the problem

I don't suppose they are a breed club member in which case you could report it there as I expect this would breach their code.

Thats a point - i'm not sure but will have a look into it and find out.  Considering how serious the condition can be i'd be putting a stop to breeding that line and starting again! 

> So it's possible that exercise could play a part in the development of this condition in a similar way to HD ;-) <IMG class=qButton title="Quote selected text" alt="Quote selected text" src="/images/mi_quote.gif">

Thank you Dill.  I have just emailed them again.  As they don't live a million miles away, and sound apprehensive and worried, I've asked, initially, if they mind me discussing her with my own vet.  To be fair, they quite obviously adore her, and sound really worried about after care. 

They have even mentioned the possibility of using my vet.  It would certainly mean that I would be in a position to offer to give the bitch after care myself, if they feel they couldn't cope.  I am just glad that they had the sense to let me know.  I would have been horrified to hear it from someone else!  And, at least, by immediately offering to become involved financially, they do know that I stand by my promises made when a pup is sold.

As I said, the dam has been spayed anyway, but I'm still disappointed for this to happen when both parents are fine.  Will see how they respond to letting my vet examine her, I am sure that they will say yes.

Well done Jean, if only all were as concerned...you do exactly what I would do...hope everything turns out ok for the wee one x

You're welcome Jean! :)

You're doing exactly the same as I would be. 

I'd be wanting a second opinion too ;)  Vets aren't experts in everything and some can be positively over enthusiastic when they think they've found a juicy problem ;) - not saying this is the case here, just my experience ;)

keeping fingers crossed it's not as bad as feared.

Dill I thought you would be interested to know how right you are!!!!  :-)

I have just returned from my vet.  Took the owners with their girl, but just sat back and didn't interrupt.  He spent a full half hour with them, and couldn't have been more thorough.  After confirming that the kneecap came out, he checked the other one.  Messed for ages before saying that he couldn't shift that one.  Went back to the problem leg, and showed the guy where to feel so he could feel a nice deep ridge.  Kneecap was out at this point. 

Given that it didn't appear to be a genetic problem, he wondered if it was traumatic.  When he asked if she had had any accidents, the answer was yes, a couple of days before she started limping!  (They hadn't mentioned this to me!)  She had jumped off the sofa, landed awkwardly, and screamed like mad!  :-(

He did go into great detail for them, and even got a skeleton out to show them the difference between luxated patella and injury of this type.  I think (if I understood correctly) that a torn ligament needed to be repaired. 

I did go to the counter to pay the consultation fee, but they said no charge.  But I had been willing to pay it, as I'd told them I would be financially responsible.  I do feel that I have gone out of my way to be a responsible person, but not sure that I would be willing to pay for an operation required due to accident.

As this genetic problem is something I feel very strongly about, I am over the moon.  I didn't think I had a problem, and would always be available to anyone that had one of my pups.  But, as you can imagine, I'm thrilled to bits.  :-)  :-)

newfiedreams

I thought that you would be interested in this outcome!  :-)

Yes, happened to a breeder friend of mine, apparently is was way back in the pedigree (like GGG grandfather or something) and nothing appeared for that long, and then all of a sudden a pup with patella issues.  Too bad, she was a nice looking dog, good show dog. 

Well, now, aren't you so glad to be so responsible?! I think people tend to 'forget' things until they are prompted! The same sort of investigation/questioning is required by Doctors and Nurses...this is the way you find the information you need to make an intelligent and knowledgable diagnoses!

Well done Jean and yes I am very interested! Now I know what questions to ask if I ever have problems the same! I'm very blessed in that Jean(the Breeder of all my dogs) has excellent knowledge about the breed and it's heritage. I do feel that Yorkies generally are relatively problem free from ill health and genetic issues, thank goodness!!

Thanks for thinking of me! :-)

So pleased that you've had a good outcome :-D :-D

This is where getting a second opinion that YOU trust is so important ;)  

Re. The torn ligament, sometimes they can repair themselves with rest, it depends on where and what type of injury to the ligament.   

>not sure that I would be willing to pay for an operation required due to accident.

Surely that would be above and beyond the call of duty?  as the accident happened in their home - not yours ;)

> not sure that I would be willing to pay for an operation required due to accident.
> Surely that would be above and beyond the call of duty?&nbsp; as the accident happened in their home - not yours ;-)

and will surely be coverd by insurance anyway?

could you tell me what patella probs are, im very curious and tring to learn as much as i can

thanks

sami

> could you tell me what patella probs are, im very curious and tring to learn as much as i can
>

Hi Sami
It's a genetic problem, and affected dogs shouldn't be bred from.  There are folk on CD that are able to explain it far morer clearly than I can, but you could read up on it here.  Hope that helps.  :-)

http://vetsurgerycentral.com/patella.htm

oh thankyou ill read on it