I had an e mail from one of the buyers of our puppies today saying..

'I have a little bit of bad news.  The vet is still unable to find his testicles.  She believes they are in his abdomen because she cannot feel them near his scrotum.  Which means that they cannot be manipulated down.  Statistically he is quite unique.  Only 1 % of all dogs do not have both testicles.  Unique, handsome & a lovely personality.  Since he is now 4 months old & cannot be felt she does not believe they will come.  There are however no side effects to this condition.  When he is 12-18 months old he will need to be castrated as they often become tumerous.'

what do you guys think of this, i have heard that the testicles often dont descend till later on anyway...

I think if they have not descended by 12 months it is very unlikely they will.  His owners seem to be taking this news very well and are understanding of these things happening and do not seem to be particularly phased by it :-)

She is a wonderful lady and always keeps us updated. She is very understanding and is definately a loving owner.. but I always thought that sometimes there can be no sign of testicles at four months?? Is this vet right to assume they will never descend? after all he is only 4 months

She seems to have said she does not believe they will but as they are not planning to do anything until the dog is at least 12 months I don't think it matters much.

Hi as Isabels says for this puppy at least the vet is prepared to wait a resonable time to allow for the puppy to mature and the possibilty of late decent. However I can understand from your point of view as his breeder you would wish to know the likelyhood of the vet being correct as you want all your pups to be "Perfect"( for want of a better term :) ) and  it then could affect your future plans with his mum and his sibling. Unfortunately it is going to be down to waiting as no one can offer a definitive answer the vet will be speaking from her experience and others may offer similar experiences or in other cases things will have worked out differently.

Have a word with the Health folk at the KC Angelic is it is a specialist in this area I believe.

I've had pups in the past have nothing showing at 16 wks only to have two fully descended testies at 18 wks I've known others in my breed to not have them down till 20plus wks.  I always check at birth and all of mine have had them sitting insitu at birth but a few hrs later they're gone again, needless to say they've all appeared by 20 wks so fingers crossed for you as the old saying is if they're out at birth they'll pop out again later.

Puppy dogs who have their owners constantly checking their testicles can draw them up & as they grow they canot later descend. Please tell her to stop checking & if they are going to drop they will

I find vets useless at locating testicles. I generally sit them on their haunches and shake them down...wait til pups is relaxed then voila.
Obviously some never come down.

Sounds like quite a good vet, unsual these days for one to wait so long, so looks like the owners have got a good one.

I would also tell her to leave them be for 6 months and stop checking.  If they come down brilliant, but if they've not by 12 months then they should have him done.

this has happened with one of my boys that a friend had from here.

Don't worry, he was 12 months old and only one testicle had come down.  The week before the vet was due to castrate him and told my friend that he would have to 'dig' for the other testicle,  Voila! it dropped down.  Somehow he must have known, bless him.  It was all o.k. then.

Another friend does the shaking that Toolz mentioned and that can work too.

When my little dog was 6 months old he still had the ability to make his testicles disappear when ever anyone at ringcraft when near them! We'd see them from time to time but it was always anybodies guess as to where they were at ringcraft and shows. They did descend as hoped and now he is more than pleased with himself!

I would think he is still pretty young and wouldn't worry to much as of yet- I no when they are cold/scared/what ahve you them lil things can disapear like that. I would def give it till he's fully mature and yes if still nothing then I would prob alter him just to be on the safe side- its more of an explority surgery when they have not dropped to find them and remove them.

> I find vets useless at locating testicles. I generally sit them on their haunches and shake them down...wait til pups is relaxed then voila.
> Obviously some never come down.

Tooolz, can you explain a bit more how you do this.  Do you shake the dogs haunches or what?  My pup's haven't dropped although I can feel 2 wee peas in there!  I feel sorry for the poor pup as he is now getting known as Obi-no-nuts!

Sorry for the delay, I was away.

I sit the little boy on my lap like a ventriloquist dummy and then relax him by stroking his 'tummy'. Meanwhile I jiggle my lap gently, up and down in a bouncing movement ( and usually with a suitable little song!) and hope for gravity to do it's work. Stop jiggling, and very gently feel for the 'goods'.
If you can gently feel '2 wee peas' and they are decended into the scrotum, I think it's a result ;-) With pups who retract theirs up and down it is quite some time until they 'hang' so don't worry if they can only be felt whilst in the 'V.dummy' position.

If they are stubbornly up in the abdomen then it's not so good, probably a short cord problem. Time will tell.

Thanks for that, I'll give him a shoogle tonight.

> but I always thought that sometimes there can be no sign of testicles at four months?? Is this vet right to assume they will never descend? after all he is only 4 months

Yes, I sold a pup last year, and they phoned me in a panic because their vet was "worried!"  The pup was 4 months old for crying out loud.

One month later they phoned me to tell me that they had "appeared!"

I've had dogs later than that though.

> I sit the little boy on my lap like a ventriloquist dummy and then relax him by stroking his 'tummy'. Meanwhile I jiggle my lap gently, up and down in a bouncing movement ( and usually with a suitable little song!) and hope for gravity to do it's work. Stop jiggling, and very gently feel for the 'goods'.
> If you can gently feel '2 wee peas' and they are decended into the scrotum, I think it's a result ;-) With pups who retract theirs up and down it is quite some time until they 'hang' so don't worry if they can only be felt whilst in the 'V.dummy' position

hmmm, even getting him into the VD position was quite difficult as he is over 3' long and I am only 5' but we tried to have a jiggle and even a wee song but not sure how successful.  TBH I couldn't stop laughing but will continue with the jiggle and shoogle method.  What do you do with the tail when you are doing it?  I was alternating between him sitting on it and it hanging down the side - hopefully none of the neighbours were watching!

Well you  did make me laugh.... a 3ft puppy :-)

As for the tail..well, it just hangs down but if the little lad gets shy he may curl the tail up and over the area in question and in that case trap it between your legs. I've just got back from my Mum's in Scotland and I bet you live there ( just seen Dundee...that's a shame it's close enough). If I got my hands on him I would know for certain whether he's got 'the wee peas'.Although if he's that big they'll be marrowfats!

When he's relaxed ( if that's possible) can you locate an empty scrotum? If so can you feel anything, between finger and thumb, in the vacinity?

> Well you  did make me laugh.... a 3ft puppy :-)

well, he is when he is standing upright peering over the extra tall stair gate...

If have given him a shoogle and there is definitely a wee swelling there but he wasn't too keen on me giving them a squeeze ;) I feel like a puppy pervert so will just leave them alone for a few weeks and see what happens.