Hi, I am looking for a mate for my male dog (small breed) that is 5 yrs old.

Mod edit: name of breed removed

usually bitch owners approach you to ask for stud usage. has he had all his tests with good results?

I will respectfully assume this is not a show dog otherwise I feel you would now how the breeding of dogs is generally conducted and would therefore suggest that you have a read of this thread.

Nohe isnt a show dog; I really havent come across any bitches hence am using this forum. Any suggestions to what I need to do?

> Any suggestions to what I need to do?

Have you read the link I have given?  The most compelling answer to that question must be give up any idea of breeding from him.  If you are keen to own another dog of similar genes it would be better to go back to his breeder and book a puppy from the line.

yes thank you for the thread; and i do understand the responsibilities I definately want him to breed. I am not looking for a second dog at the moment.

> i do understand the responsibilities I definately want him to breed.

Then I would suggest you start with showing him to discover if he is considered by the experts to be a worthy example of the breed.  He is rather older than most but if you look for a local ringcraft group they will help you learn how to show him to his best advantage.  As he is rather older you may wish to investigate the required health testing from your breed club and get on with that at the same time although most would probably wait to see how he showed first.

> I definately want him to breed

Why?

I've never 'wanted my boys to breed' They've been very successful at shows, have been assessed and commented favourably on by many breed specialists, shown themselves to have the correct breed type and temperament and then, and only then, bitch owners have approached me and asked to use them.

I've then seriously considered the bitch in question, her lines, temperament and show career before allowing my dogs to be used.

My breed don't require any health tests, but if they did, this would all of course be done first too.

So again.... why do you want to breed from your dog, what can he offer the breed? You need to be able to answer this question before people will consider asking to use him at stud.

> I definately want him to breed. I am not looking for a second dog at the moment.

What is the purpose of your breeding plans with him?  Most good bitches will be put to stud dogs that have proved themselves in the show ring.  Even those bitches that are pet bred will often look for the best dogs available as they will inevitably come with an owner or handler who has a lot of experience in these matters.

Using a dog at stud brings a big responsibility to the dog owner and isn't without complications.  You do need to be really honest - what does your dog, and his breeding, have to offer?

So, if you don't want a puppy from him, why do you want to breed from him?   Is it, perhaps, in this economic climate, you think that you might have another source of income from your dog?   If so, forget it!

Do you realise that, as the owner of the stud dog, you would have equal responsibility with the owner of the bitch if there were to be any health faults in resulting puppies that could have been avoided had you health-screened your dog?    Are you aware of the health tests necessary in your breed, that your boy should have before you offer him at stud?  No, I'm not asking the breed of your dog - that, and advertising a dog for stud is against the terms of service of Champdogs.

Did you notice the name of the forum when you registered?  Yes - thats right - its CHAMP dogs.    Now not all of our dogs are "champion" dogs to any one other than the owner - but as a forum/information exchange we do adhere and aspire to breed champ dogs - which means dogs that are KC registered, with pedigrees of the dog and bitch which complement and enhance each other.   We breed to breed standards - so that might be a start for you - looking at the standard requirements for your breed.   We only breed dogs that have passed the necessary tests/criteria of each breed.

So you will see, you should be prepared to pay out quite a goodly sum for health tests for your boy - and I'm not just meaning having your local vet look him over and say - oh yes - four legs, one at each corner, nice coat, tail, bright eyes .......  

Then of course, you will want a good stud fee for him - but the owners of bitches prepared to stump up such a sum will want to know - what has he won - what has he achieved?  So then, you should be thinking of showing him - or competing in obedience/agility with him - again more expense.

If the owner of a bitch does decide that you own the ideal stud for their dog, and you do have a successful mating (have you ever supervised one - it's not just a case of letting nature take its course, you know!) and the bitch does become pregnant, do you have contacts who you will be able to put forward as being prepared to buy a puppy?   The stud owner has a responsibility there too!

In short, contact the breeder of your dog, ask for his views as to whether your boy is a good example of the breed, find out about the tests required by your breed society - read up a bit about it all first before offering your boy at stud.   After all, I take it that you do want to do everything properly, don't you?

If you are not looking for a second dog why do you want him to be bred?

just in case, but you are aware that you will be expected as a stud owner to have a dog that has excelled in the show ring or at work, have passed each and every health test for your breed with good results, have a fantastic temprement, know your bloodlines back for many generations, similarly know the bloodlines of any bitch you allow to be mated with your stud, you will need to put up the bitch and in all likelyhood her owners for perhaps several days, you will be equaly responsible for every single puppy produced from the mating- can you afford and do you have the room for potentially several dogs?

bics really truely why would you want to breed your boy? its frankly a nightmare if you are not desperate for a pup from him for a great reason.

and, please do not be offended if this is not the case, if its about the money you feel might be made i am afraid not... in this economic downturn many breeders of FANTASTIC pups from great parents are having trouble selling them. its no area for dangling feet.

How dare you presume I thought of doing this for money cause of the economic condition? I am a very successful business woman and would not consider using my dog that is a part of my family as a mere source of income. Although I understand the concern everyone is showing I cannot for the life of me understand the hostility. I am not sure of having him spayed and think its quiet a nasty procedure. The fact that I haven't thought of breeding him for 5 yrs maybe tells you all that he is not a source of income! As I may not have him spayed I thought I'd have him crossed if that is the right term. I am financially sound to care for any expenses that may occur and am all of 35 yrs of age to understand the responsibilities that will follow.

The reason I joined this forum is to get advice and to consider my next step.

I didn't buy him from a breeder he was a gift from a friend who has a male and a female of the same small breed. I think it would be wrong to cross him with his mother??? I didnt realise that show dogs were crossed?? your are right I should consider the name of the forum.. Champs just can't see the small print that says self righteous!

How dare you presume I thought of doing this for money cause of the economic condition? I am a very successful business woman and would not consider using my dog that is a part of my family as a mere source of income. Although I understand the concern everyone is showing I cannot for the life of me understand the hostility.

So can you please tell us why you feel the need to use him for breeding?

read the above again

> I think it would be wrong to cross him with his mother??? I didnt realise that show dogs were crossed??

who said this??? sorry you feel everyone is being hostile, but we are all just concerned about the dog and any future puppies. as many people have said, in this economy pups are difficult to sell, and i dont see why you would want to get involved in that, unless you have a top quality dog who has much to offer the breed.
what are your reasons for breeding from him? not being nasty, genuinely want to know.
also spayed is the term used for female neutering, it would be castration if he were to be done :)

I dont think anyone is trying to be self righteous, but there are so many unwanted dogs out there why would you want to mate your dog if not to improve the breed. I was showing for 5 years before I even consider using my dog, and then you have to think it can change the personnality of you dog. Are you prepared for him to become more dominent or not come back when he is called because he smells a bitch in season. Where will the pups end up in good homes or will people buy them because their cheaper than from a good breeder, and end up in the wrong homes, just a few things to thimk about, and if there not sold are you prepared to take them on. Not being self righteous just thinking of the pups.

> I didnt realise that show dogs were crossed??

they are not, you cannot show a cross

> I think it would be wrong to cross him with his mother???

yes it would be

crossing means breeding two dogs of a different breed- not something anyone here would reccommend.

> I am not sure of having him spayed and think its quiet a nasty procedure

its a very standard proceedure, vets do it so often prices etc tend to be listed on web sites. though no one would suggest you should do it if your not comfortable. you can choose not to spay him and choose not to breed him- if you've not got any entire (un neutered) bitches in the house then it shouldn't be a problem. my boy is still entire and i definately will not be breeding from him (imperfect temprement and a problem with his leg as well as not fitting the breed standard)

> Although I understand the concern everyone is showing I cannot for the life of me understand the hostility

it springs from the number of people who come on looking to just make money from their dog, and unfortunatly your initial posts read similarly, sorry for the misinterpretation. people on this board are very very passionate about dogs and their welfare and that passion can be misdirected.

in honestly and without hostility i would advise against breeding from your boy. so many dogs lack homes these days i think that only the best of the best should be bred from and then by absolute experts.

read the above again

I did and couldn't find the reason you wish to breed. Do you think every dog that isn't neutered needs to be bred from?

no i am not talking abt every dog; i am talking about mine

no i am not talking abt every dog; i am talking about mine

So what advantages do you think it will give to you or your dog?

thank you for your opinions and advice.. i am extremely passionate about animals as well ... I have been brought up in house full of well looked after and well cared for animals.. we have always had dogs rescues, strays etc bics is my first pedigree and just thought that since he has started showing signs of domination i may consider having him bread... i have been advised by my vet today that even if he is castrated he may not change his behaviour.. although i do understand not all dogs need to breed; since i feel i can handle the responsibility if the opportunity presented itself, may consider it

>I am not sure of having him spayed and think its quiet a nasty procedure.
>As I may not have him spayed I thought I'd have him crossed if that is the right term.
>I didn't buy him from a breeder he was a gift from a friend who has a male and a female of the same small breed. I think it would be wrong to cross him with his mother??? I didnt realise that show dogs were crossed?? your are right I should consider the name of the forum.. Champs just can't see the small print that says self righteous!

If this is not a WU then you obviously know very little about the biological side of dogs physiology.

To spay-To remove or destroy the ovaries of (an animal) in order that it cannot become pregnant. so you cannot have your male spayed, he would be castrated.
To cross(referring to dogs)-means breeding one breed of dog to a different breedso you cannot"cross"your dog with his mother as she should be the same breed as he is if he is a pedigree breed of dog & not a cross bred dog

So lets get things straight:

You have a male entire pedigree dog that you want to use as a stud dog-Yes ?

Questions
1.Is he a Kennel Club Registered pedigree dog?
2.Are there any health testing requirements for his breed ? Were his parents health tested before being bred from ?
3.For what reason do you want to use him as a stud ? For example I hope to use my young BC to breed from because he comes from very good bloodlines, he has had all the DNA tests available & has normal results for all of them, he is a typical Border Collie & in the opinions of experts in Border Collies using him will improve the breed. Initially I will use him once myself on a bitch I will "buy in"especially for him, but also to do obedience with as well.(if his hips, elbows & eyes are clinically tested normal or within the boundaries acceptability for breeding). Can you say the same about your dog ? Will using him to produce puppies improve the breed & produce healthy puppies that are"fit for purpose"
4.Have you been involved with owning a stud dog or breeding dogs before ?
5.Have you facilities to take back all the puppies he produces at any time in their lives if they are no longer wanted(you will be the next port of call after the owner of the bitch)
6.Are you aware of the behavioural changes he may undergo after being used at stud ?
7.Finally do you have a deep enough knowledge of his breed to be able to select bitches that will be suitable or unsuitable to produce puppies by him ?

> As I may not have him spayed I thought I'd have him crossed if that is the right term

The term is neutered or neuter for a male (spayed or spay for a female).  There are often very good health reasons not to neuter but the ability to father puppies is not the primary issue, dogs do not NEED to sire puppies.

Crossed is not the right term but I may misunderstand what your intentions are.  A crossbreed is a dog produced when the parents are a different breed to each other.

> bics is my first pedigree and just thought that since he has started showing signs of domination i may consider having him bread... i have been advised by my vet today that even if he is castrated he may not change his behaviour.. although i do understand not all dogs need to breed; since i feel i can handle the responsibility if the opportunity presented itself, may consider it

Signs of "domination" over who ?

& do you really believe that this will end after he has been used at stud

Who told you that ?

>just thought that since he has started showing signs of domination i may consider having him bread...

I think you may have been mis-informed.  Breeding from a dog will make them more dominate as he will become, if you like, an Alpha male.  He will then, possibly change his temprement to keep other male dogs off his turf. 

You are also right that castration may not change his behaviour and if his dominance is in an aggressive manor he should not be bred from as this could be past to his pups and he will become worse, most likely.

If he is becoming dominate I think you should consider a behaviourist to sort his temprement out before anything becomes of it.

If you really want to get into breeding as a hobby then I would suggest you start with another dog and buy from a breeder who will also be able to be your mentor :)  This way you can have all the expert guidence to strat off with.  A fantastic way of doing it IMO.

"The reason I joined this forum is to get advice and to consider my next step".

OK - lets start again :)

Welcome to the forum, Bics!    

You have, as often happens, started off on the wrong foot - that is the trouble with typing questions onto a screen and sending them out into the ether ....they never turn out the way you actually mean them to!

I now understand that you are asking for advice as to the advisability of offering your 5 year old dog at stud.    You may already, from the answers you have received, have gleaned enough information to think that this might not be the best step to take. as at 5 years of age, he is probably a bit too old to start showing.    But you don't need to have him neutered - with bitches it is generally considered to be better for them, healthwise to be spayed because of the increasing chance of pyometra (sp??) with age - but unless you have a male which is humping everything in sight, it isn't really necessary.  

Is he KC registered?    I certainly would never recommend breeding mother/son - an absolute no-no in my book.   And no, we certainly don't recommend cross-breeding - but too often, we have people with £signs in the eyes, coming to the Forum, wanting to breed their yorkie/shitzu/maltese to a poodle for deisgner crosses.    Sadly, we assumed that your first post came into this category.   I apologise for jumping to conclusions.

And the advice I would give to you now?   Enjoy your boy, don't offer him at stud (read the link that Isabel gave you it is so relevant)  - he is obviously your champ dog - and don't worry about getting him neutered!

Margot

> since he has started showing signs of domination i may consider having him bread

that would probably only make the problem worse to be honest. domination how? perhaps we could offer some advice?

> i have been advised by my vet today that even if he is castrated he may not change his behaviour

or it could even make his behaviour worse :(

i'd suggest that if you are perhaps interested in breeding do some good, deep research and find a breeder to get a pup from who can act as a mentor. show the pup and see how they get on, do the relevent health tests and if your lucky they might be a breeding prospect. it's a huge commitment, far bigger than can be stressed in a post, i do hope you reconsider.

if not though i cannot urge you enough to conduct the appropriate health tests

bics is my first pedigree and just thought that since he has started showing signs of domination i may consider having him bread... i have been advised by my vet today that even if he is castrated he may not change his behaviour

Breeding him, will most likely not change the issues you are having with his dominance, infact it could make it worse.  Vets will tell you that if you want to change your intact males behaviour in regards to dominance, that neutering him may help.  Do not know where you were told that if you want to calm him down, to breed him. 

We here, on the forum, are all very passionate about our dogs, and the welfare of dogs.  So some posts may not be what you want to hear, but those are usually the ones you need to hear.  Its easy to get people to agree with you, but when they dont, you need to ask why????  And really look at yourself. 

Has he had health testing done?  (you havent mentioned if he has or hasnt).  Has he been evaluated by people who know the breed inside and out?  What are his good points?  What are his bad points?  What does he have to offer to the breeds gene pool???  You need to look long and hard at these questions, and answer them HONESTLY.  Maybe not to us, but to yourself.  There is a lot of responsibility when it comes to breeding dogs, not just putting your male dog with a female, and letting the bitches owner deal with the rest. 

That is a very good post Lokis mum.
I do have to agree with the basis of what some of the other post have consisted of though.

I certainly would never recommend breeding mother/son - an absolute no-no in my book.

And the KC has banned it. :)

I meant to say that!!!!!!

The question may even be academic, as many 5 year old males that have never had a bitch actually don't have much of a clue about what to do.

I can understand that the OP is probably as surprised by the replies and we are by the question.

Best advice is forget the idea it is not a good one, at 5 years old the dog may not even be able to perform, no owner of a decent bitch would entertain a 5 year old virgin dog with an inexperienced owner and I am sure you do not wish to involve your self or your dog in breeding with an irresponsible bitch owner and legally the buck could stop with you.

No need to castrate, my dogs are not used for breeding but are left intact.

No dog showing aggression should be used at stud.

Some dogs following being used at stud are the same as before other are more possessive, more aggressive and inclined to mark their territory even with some in the house.
I do not advice for the sake of you, your family, the bitch, the bitch owner, the pups, the pups owners, it is all negative I am afraid there are no positives in breeding from a 5 year old dog that have nothing to recommend it except it is elderly and becoming aggressive.

If you are having problems now with him, they could be 10 times worse afterwards, I wouldn't even go there.