Hi all. My young whippet is going through somewhat of a fussy stage. (i think)

She used to eat anything - and never leave food in her bowl. But now it's a different kettle of fish.

She picks at it and walks away and is quite happy to leave a bowl full. I've tried feeding her and when she walks away to get her back and repeating it.  But to no avail. Have even stopped treats completely so it's not as if she's full up. When we eat a meal she is left in another room as she attempts to steal my daughters food so she's now banned. So she's not having other opportunities to eat 'nice yummy food'.

We've tried her on various complete foods, from Skinners, Sneyd puppy, Bakers, Wagg and Field and Trial Puppy foods, and the most success has been Bakers - but still not 100% successful.

She went for a checkup in the week to ensure no health related probs, and our Vet gave her a clean bill of health and said she'll eat when she's hungry. Which i must agree with, but she's a whippet, so not as if she can comfortably lose a pound or 2 like some other breeds possibly could.

There has been no loose stools or anything to suggest any foods reacting on her.

Has anyone got any advice? Or am over-reacting?? I'm wary of making it worse by pampering her etc, and making her not eat cos if she refuses whats in the bowl, then mum'll give her summit nicer!

Also, you may remember that we purchased an American Bulldog. But sadly he had to have her put to sleep due to a sudden illness. This was nearly 3 weeks ago now, could she be pining? The Am Bull wasn't with us long, but she and the Whippet definately bonded and adored each other.

Can anyone recommend a food brand? Or whether to feed RAW diet, and if so how do i go about it?

Any advice greatly appreciated.

How old is she ? Has she been spayed ?

When my dogs go off their food for any reason I buy a tin of sardines, or some cheese to add a little something to get them to eat again. You just need to stimulate the appetite a bit. I would also try to up her exercise a bit, the more energy she uses might make her hungry.

Yes, she could be pining for the other dog, but if it hadn't been with you for too long I wouldn't expect it to be such a big thing for your dog.

It doesn't do them any major problem to not eat for a little while, but keep an eye on her. As the vet said, if she is hungry she will eat, but adding something to her normal food to gain an interest can help ;-) I wouldn't keep changing her food, though, you could be maiking a rod for your own back. My ex did that with his CKCS and she ended up only eating heart and liver (ew!) That changed once I got my hands on her though, she got a more varied diet when we started going out. :-)

she's 8 months old and no she isn't spayed.
I've added some water to her meal about an hour ago and left to soak. Handed it over 10 mins ago and she ate about half so i took it up - much to her displeasure and annoyance. She really whined and cried and tried to jump up onto the surfaces. So i told her to sit and wait and gave her the rest.
AND SHE DEVOURED IT!!!!
the vet did say she should bounce back after the Am Bull leaving us, but that it prob wasn't connected cos of the eating issue has only been present for little over a wk, but i just wanted a second opinion...

Another query though i have asked the same question on another forum, and was told to steer clear of Bakers. Does anyone know a reason for this??
Thanks!

> and was told to steer clear of Bakers

Well Bakers is the MacDonalds of the dog world. Full of addictive, colourants & sugar !!!!!

It could be that she is coming into season & sometimes on a first season bitches can go off their food, as the hormones increase

Well Bakers is the MacDonalds of the dog world. Full of addictive, colourants & sugar !!!!!

OMG!!!!!!!!! the rest of that box will be binned then! It was Field and Trial Puppy food that she ate just.So will attempt again later on today.

Regarding the season - i'll keep a close eye on her over the coming weeks, to see if it is.

Thanks again for your help, my vet is very good but just wanted to check.

> Well Bakers is the MacDonalds of the dog world.

Of course it isn't :-)  Even MacDonalds do not market their product as a balanced complete diet which is what all dog foods on the UK market are.  If she has no intolerances for colourings etc there is no reason not to give them although colours are rather wasted on a dog :-) Nor is sugar remotely toxic, so again unless your dog is inclining to obesity should not be a concern.
I think your vet is right and the best way to deal with this is to remove food not eaten immediately and give nothing until the next meal.  Although I would not suggest you take it away halfway through eating it even if it has appeared to get her going on this occasion.  I would also opt for one food that she has been happy to eat.......whatever it is ;-) and stick to it.

>> Well Bakers is the MacDonalds of the dog world.
> Of course it isn't :-)  Even MacDonalds do not market their product as a balanced complete diet which is what all dog foods on the UK market are.  If she has no intolerances for colourings etc there is no reason not to give them although colours are rather wasted on a dog :-) Nor is sugar remotely toxic, so again unless your dog is inclining to obesity should not be a concern.

So you would feed your dogs on Bakers then Isabel ?

Dogs do not need the colourants, additives , preservatives, sugar etc etc etc in Bakers. The number of hyperactive dogs seen at dog clubs & by vets that are fed on Bakers is huge. A veterinary canine Nutritionist(not employed by any food manufacturer he is a practising vet, specialising in nutrition) I know considers feeding a dog on Bakers is like feeding it on a MacDonalds diet. As the Nutritionist has spent the last 20 years being involved in correcting dogs diets & sorting out dogs with digestive etc food related problems, he is more qualified to advise on canine diet than a lay person & if he believes that Bakers is a cruddy diet I would side with him.

> he is more qualified to advise on canine diet than a lay person

Indeed but I suspect those that devise the formulas for Bakers are similarly qualified :-) 
Can your friend elaborate on why he thinks MacDonalds qualifies as a complete food?
No, dogs do not need colouring, as I said, but nor does that mean it will harm them, similarly refined sugars.  As for preservatives, if you wish your feed to be good for more than a day or two and do not wish to can or freeze you are going to need them in some form or other.
If it suited my dog and my budget and was not entirely happy with what I am feeding I might well consider it. I personally know people who do feed this.  Not virtual chums but dogs I actually clap on the head several times a week :-)

I often describe Bakers as the equivilent to MacDonalds :-)  as said it contains a load of additives, sugars and colourings, that can lead to problems.  Often dogs that I see with behavioural problems are fed on bakers or similar and just changing the food alone can have an impact on their behaviour.  It also contains BHTs and BHAs which have been linked to cancer in humans and I think are now banned in human foods. There are much stricter regulations on human food than there is on dog food, so a dog food that may be marketed as a complete diet, but the human equivilent couldn't be.

Bakers isn't exactly a cheap food price wise - there are many better qulity foods at a lower price.

It could well be that she's feeling unsettled due to the situation with the AB or that she's coming into season.  Your vet is right she is very unlikely to starve herself, that said I like to see my dogs loving their food and really keen to eat.  Maybe mixing the kibble with a good quality wet food like Natures Menu or Mature Diet, it only needs a couple of table sppons mixed on as it coats the kibble when mushed in :-)

Although I would not suggest you take it away halfway through eating it even if it has appeared to get her going on this occasion.

sorry i probably wasn't clear, i hadn't stopped her halfway through, she'd walked away from it and was going to leave the room. so i said 'all gone' and put it on the side. To which she had her tantrum to it.

Perhaps i have just been naive, as i see it in every dog food aisle in all supermarkets, and it's at local and chain pet stores, i assumed it would of been fine. Esp as i do know of 1 or 2 dogs that feed on it well.
That and it was recommended to me by a family member who's Yorkie is a very fussy eater and will only eat the big chunks from Bakers!

> There are much stricter regulations on human food than there is on dog food

In the UK dog food has to meet all the same safety requirements.
If you are noticing differences when certain dogs don't eat a food then I would say they do have an intolerance to some ingredient or other but that is not to say all dogs or even the majority of dogs will be similarly affected. After all these will not be coming to you with behavioural problems :-)

In the UK dog food has to meet all the same safety requirements.

I'm fairly certain that BHTs at least if not BHTs and BHAs are banned in human food but they aren't in dog food.  There are also dog foods that state are not fit or safe for human consumption. The things that go into foods, not just bakers but foods that's main first one or two ingredients are meat and animals derivitives can be absolutely grim - I know someone who used to work in production line in a factory making dog food nad lets just say that people wouldn't worry so much about their dogs picking up old rabbit carcasses on walks if they knew what was in some of the food.

If you are noticing differences when certain dogs don't eat a food then I would say they do have an intolerance to some ingredient or other but that is not to say all dogs or even the majority of dogs will be similarly affected. After all these will not be coming to you with behavioural problems 

It's a difference when they do not don't eat a certain food and it's particular behaviour traits and it certainly does suggest a pattern, of course it's not in any way conclusive and yes lots won't be affected in the same way but it seems with foods like that with colourings and additives, sugars etc that they can cause certain problems that there isn't an obvious pattern with with other foods.  I think a lot of dogs have problems with sugars, whether that's an intolerance or not I don't know but it does cause problems, least of which is about 70% of the dogs that I know are on Bakers are overwieght and have poor teeth/dental hygene, whether that's a coincidence or not I don't know but again it does show a pattern.

With the dogs on it that we don't know about doesn't mean it hsan't affected their general health or behaviour in any way because there hasn't been enough research :-)

> There are also dog foods that state are not fit or safe for human consumption.

Can you tell us which?

>The things that go into foods, not just bakers but foods that's main first one or two ingredients are meat and animals derivitives can be absolutely grim

Not to our dogs they are not :-)

>It's a difference when they do not don't eat a certain food and it's particular behaviour traits and it certainly does suggest a pattern

But all the other thousands that are not showing these traits are not going to be bringing their dog to you. 

> With the dogs on it that we don't know about doesn't mean it hsan't affected their general health or behaviour in any way because there hasn't been enough research

Well we know the general population are healthy and living long lives from the studies that the KC and MoreThan have conducted and we know a goodly proportion are eating this and similar foods.

Two things come to mind here

1. She could be coming up to her first season and may get a little off her food and fussy

2. She could be slowing down growth-wise and not needing quite so much food.  If she's reached almost adult height and weight then she may simply not be hungry and will be happier with less food ;)  I have seen this in all my dogs and the dogs of friends at this age and it can be quite worrying until you realise that the dog has simply reached the stage where they are no longer growing quickly and do not need the extra food ;) 

My advise would be the same as others'.  Give the meal and wait until the dog walks away - about 10 mins, then pick it up.  Do not offer food until the next meal.  You'll soon find that your pup is eating again ;)

Personally, I wouldn't feed Bakers, as I wouldn't feed any food that didn't disclose the actual amounts of key ingredients in it ;)  any food manufacturer that states only a min of 4% meat in the meat kibble etc. can't be very proud of their food ;)  and if the whole food contains only 4% of meat, then the majority of the rest is probably cereal, making it a very expensive mixer biscuit ;)

For 8 months old you have tried her on quite a lot of different brands of food? Can i ask why you felt the need to keep changing?
Maybe you just need to find the best food for her and stick with it. Maybe adding gravy, cheese or fish to it initially to make it more tempting.
Good luck

For 8 months old you have tried her on quite a lot of different brands of food? Can i ask why you felt the need to keep changing?

she's been on field and trial alone until last the few weeks when she just turned her nose up at it. so i tried all the other foods that i previously mentioned in an attempt to get her to eat.
At crufts i was told to 'force feed her' if it continues, should i? was told special nuggets (Defrosted from the P@H frozen range). can anyone tell me more? (just incase it happensagain - should i do this?)
She ate a meal of field and trial (which i have discovered is skinners) last nite and again this morning. last nite she went to walk away so i walked over - just to see and she stuck her head down and polished it off!! she's not impressed i don't think!
but this morn she polished it off with no complaints - so i'm leaning towards that it may just of been a phase??

any help though on this 'force feeding'. how do you do it? is it recommended?
thanks!

force feeding???? what? no idea how you would do that.

as suggested find a good quality food and stick with it stop chopping and changing. like your vet said a dog will not let it self starve.
IT WILL however get on to the fact if it doesnt like what you are giving it at that time you will change it.
my first dane, i swear she had me cookong everything, mince, fish, STEAK!!!
If she has been eating skinners just give her that, offer it at breakfast if its not eaten PICK IT UP and she gets nothing even if she asks until dinner time. she will soon learn that if she doesnt eat whats given she doesnt get to choose.
she basically has you where she wants you!!
I personally dont offer extras like cheese, etc... unless they usually eat well and they become ill or for another reason like a phantom.

force feeding....

she said summit about placing the defrosted nugget at the back of the throat (as far as i could) so she has to swallow it down. She said it helps to expand the tummy??
Cos if it doesn't now - it never will? she was saying the stomach needs to expand now due to the sort of dog she is.
i've never heard of it - so i'm asking you lot as i've had some sound advice before.

i have no idea about your breed, but that doesnt sound like a nice experience for anybody never mind a dog that doesnt understand what is happening, you would give it a negative experience with not only you handling it but with eating.
i think shes just being fussy and knows how to wrap you around her paw.
i would not consider doing what has been suggested to you.
a dog will eat when its hungry and yes perhaps her stomach may shring but like us with time (short amount im sure) it will expand again.

> so i'm leaning towards that it may just of been a phase??

I think you're right on the money there, so sit back relax..... ;)
   I don't think there is any need nor justification in this instance for force feeding! (what a stress that would be for both of you, totally unecessary)

My mother has Whippets and they do tend to become discombobulated when home environment changes are made.Seems from your post now she's showing signs of settling back now, so, so should you! :)

( One of my Mum's bitches was called 'Robin'... because she stole from the rich (us) to give to the poor (herself! ;)) like all my mum's whippets they are very close to the cats in the house and Robin would mourn for weeks when anyone of them passed on as I recall 'Natures menu' (wet food in pouches) was the only thing that would tempt her out of her food fugue!)

(( Hug for the Woppet! ))

Its very hard for the owner in a 'which food' dilemma as the old adage "One mans meat is another mans poison' should've been 'dog'!! You will find some folk recommend a particular brand on which their dogs have shiney coats and great condition only for another to say the exact opposite with explosive diahorrea!
          Keep it simple for now and when she's on an even keel change then after she is settled and you have time to look into different options and what suits her nutritional requirements,lifestyle and your requirements too :)

i didn't know about the forcefeeding.... i called my breeder and he said it's not ness - and that a lot of 'Whippet' people recommend it - but he's had them 30 yrs and never did it - so thats fine by me.
I didn;t want to forcefeed her, i didn't want to upset her (she's a big baby - and runs off to my otrher half when i scold her, and vice versa) so i think she'd of broken her heart at it!

i have had a snake before thats a forcefeed (better known as assissted feed). and it's not nice - yes i no its apples and oranges blah blah! but they snake didn't enjoy it, nor did i - so i don't want to do this to my dog.

I'm glad u have mentioned Whippets you know - i call her a tea leaf!! - she's always stealing EVERYTHING! So if i can't find anything - it's in her bed or crate!!
My hairbrushes are her fave things to steal! - o and shoes!!
She was very close 2 the Am Bull ( i callled them the gruesome twosome!) i no she wasn't with us long, but it did knock the whipet i think. She has handed me the Am Bulls toys a few times but when i throw them 2 her to play with she wanders off. Its only been a few wks since she left us, and i'm not ready for another dog yet. But wen we do i'm tempted to go the greyhound rescue route.
On hindsight - i've prob been my own worst enemy. If some1 was gonna offer me 3 or 4 meals - i'd prob have a bite of each then wait patiently for sumit else 2 come along!
Luckily the various foods havn't affected her, and she is eating her 'normal' food (well 3 meals in a row so heres hoping!)

Hopefully i can relax now!!

Thanks again

Has she had her first season yet?  If not it may be approaching and could well be the cause of a temporary loss of interest in food.

Has she had her first season yet?  If not it may be approaching and could well be the cause of a temporary loss of interest in food.

no her season has not arrived as yet.. maybe it is due soon. time will tell i suppose!

>> There are also dog foods that state are not fit or safe for human consumption.
> Can you tell us which?
>

the frozen meat i buy for tio (natures something) state for pet food only

sorry about your AB.

Does it say unsafe or are they stating it for a different reason such as VAT?

think it says unsafe but not sure and don't have one to hand

sorry about your AB.

thanks. like i said, she wasn't with us long - but forever in our hearts.

For pet food only must still be fit for human consumption... please see point 2 of Gov document... for example :)

Can you tell us which?

I don't know if the one I saw recently is the one Astarte mentions but it was in the frozen section at PAH.  I'm sure I read that any dog food containing animal by products should state that it's not fit for human consumption?  Also bakers contains the additives that are banned in human food how could they not be unsuitable for human consumption, unless bakers have changed that part of the ingredients?

Not to our dogs they are not

I'm not talking about taste :-) I'm talking about nutritional benefits, although neither of my girls would be interested in eating a rabbit head with creepy crawlies in, although I appreciate many dogs might. However mix it up with a bit of filler, some sugar etc etc and they might eat it but wouldn't be giving them a balanced diet.  But the rabbit heads was the meat derivitives required percentage content for the food I mentioned above.

But all the other thousands that are not showing these traits are not going to be bringing their dog to you. 

I wasn't really meaning me, I know a lot of people that work with dogs in a professional capacity and there is a trend notived by lots of people.  Of course there are thousands of people not taking their dogs to trainers etc but that doesn't necesarily mean that all those dogs aren't being affected in a negative way.  I didn't say all dogs would be affected just that there seems to be more of a trend with it with foods like this than with other foods.

Well we know the general population are healthy and living long lives from the studies that the KC and MoreThan have conducted and we know a goodly proportion are eating this and similar foods.

They aren't very specific studies, that show benefits or disadvantages of one food over another.

I hope the ops dog gets their appetite back soon :-)

I think you need to have a look at the link HG has given.  All food has to be safe.

>I'm talking about nutritional benefits

Whatever they put in it has to a) be safe and b) make up the balance of nutrition promised on the packaging.

> They aren't very specific studies, that show benefits or disadvantages of one food over another.

No they demonstrate that whatever the population are eating they are doing well and these are very popular foods fed to thousands.  If they were not meeting all their needs we would see this reflected in these studies.

think you need to have a look at the link HG has given.  All food has to be safe.

I've looked at the link ta, and I guess it depends what you call safe, things aren't always that black and white.

b) make up the balance of nutrition promised on the packaging.

I never said anything about the nutritional value not reflecting what it says on the packaging; it's the nutirtion value that is in it that I question not that it's not what they say it is because with foods like that you can't know what is in them.

No they demonstrate that whatever the population are eating they are doing well and these are very popular foods fed to thousands.  If they were not meeting all their needs we would see this reflected in these studies.  

How, because what is there to compare it to - and I'm talking about overall welfare, including effects it has on behaviour.  I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.

> it's the nutirtion value that is in it that I question not that it's not what they say it is because with foods like that you can't know what is in them.

I think you are confusing ingredients with nutrition.
People will know if they have a behavioural problem.  If they haven't why shouldn't they feed whatever they are doing?

Many many people are unaware of the effects of diet on behavioural problems or the type of behavioural problems that can be effected by diet.  I'm not confusing ingredients and nutrition, they are pretty well connected, the amount of nutrients a dog can get from for example protien depends on the quality of the protien source.  I think this is probably at risk of being too far off topic so will leave it there.

> Many many people are unaware of the effects of diet on behavioural problems or the type of behavioural problems that can be effected by diet.

I'm not sure if that is the case, I think they very often think of diet, but they certainly know if they have a problem or not and if they don't have one they don't need to blame it on the diet :-)

>I think this is probably at risk of being too far off topic

I think it probably is.  The OP has not complained of any behavioural problems.

no there has been no concerns of behavioural issues.
She is a typical young dog - cheeky and mischievious (sp?). she loves the fields and has fun chasing her ball, then comes home and sleeps to recoop her strength... then its time for round 2 and wants me to play with her and some toys. She's not hyper or unable to settle or anything like that.