Just a quick thought, i was there last night when the judge was introduced to us as a terrier loving american...and what won? An american owned terrier....any thoughts???
Personally i think the poodle should have walked it.

Well it got through two other judges to get there so must have been worthy???

I thought the Sealyham looked great and was a real contender and believe I said so in the thread running at the time.   The Poodle was fab of course but seeing it striding out on the screen is obviously going to set it at the best advantage where as the judge is in much closer and of course gets to lay hands on so will have some different perspectives.
Hard to imagine someone at the pinnacle of their judging career would squander it on some unfair bias or other :-)

> Personally i think the poodle should have walked it.

we didn't have our hands on them so could judge little about the old english, parts of the poodle and some of the sealyham, the boxer was perhaps a smidgeon bouncy and did not really show its self hugely well to my view (lovely though) and apparently the pharoeh was mismarked (but very very elegant), the visla didn't show himself well either (pity as he was lovely)

i liked the sealyham, perhaps not as striking but what is in comparison to a poodle clipped like that? gorgeous face and lovely movement, a worth while winner. i liked him better the second time round as well.

ETA: a rare breed to so hopefully (fingers crossed) not one to be abused by the puppy farmers.

It would have been harder not easier for the Sealyham to win with the judge being a Terrier specialist.  When judging one's own breed or group you are often more critical in assessing the dogs because you are so familiar with all the finer points and differences in type.  For a Terrier to win under a Terrier specialist it would have had to have been extra special.

Debs

> Personally i think the poodle should have walked it.

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NO. ...
I really loved the terrier, again the poodle was stunning,however my vote was for the terrier.............
I believe when the final few are left out of so many thousands of dogs it has got to become a bit subjective, they are all 'prime specimens'.
Karen :)

mortified.....i dont have t'internet at home so i missed EVERYTHING

The Best in show Judge is WELSH
A valley Boy

He also judged the Terrier Group at
Westminster and give the Sealyham

second in the Group to a Scottish Terr
who was second in the Terrier Group at
Crufts 

He might be welsh but he handled in america for years and I heard worked with the kennel that the dog came from?

Well sums it up.  Thats what he must like. :)

I don't think it was a fix, it's just when 7 top dogs are put infront of you I guess if you cant decide which is better as the are both equal human nature says heart takes over!

Crufts BIS must be one of the hardest judging appointments because you will be faced with 7 top winning dogs all worthy of the BIS award.

Peter was born in wales but hasn't lived there for almost 30 years......he is a naturalised American.....and has also worked with the kennels that produced BIS.....

For what it is worth, Frank Kane said the Sealyham was the best he had ever seen.

I have been a friend of Peter for over 40 years
True he as lived in America since the late 60s
and still as the WELSH flag flying over the
GREENFIELD Kennels in PA,
Peter will tell you the same as I or anyone who
knows him YOU CAN TAKE THE BOY OUT OF WALES
BUT YOU CANT TAKE WALES OUT OF THE BOY.....

So are you saying that the three judges who put the dog up are bent?

Debs

I agree, it's harder to win under a judge of your own breed / group. That Sealyham was stunning even to my novice eyes, though I confess I picked the BIS and RBIS the other way round from what happened!

>I confess I picked the BIS and RBIS the other way round from what happened!

Me too. They had more star quality about them than the others.

And yes, breed specialists seem to be even harder on their 'own' breeds than on others, because they're looking for even greater perfection.

That Sealyham won BIS at the World Show in Sweden July 2008 (more or less the same size show as Crufts) so very obviously a worthy winner -different judge then!

floyd9t8, if you don't mind me saying this is a very bad way to start a showing career.  There is so much to learn before you start indulging in ring side gossip that you can't possibly know the real truth about.  Infact, even when you have learnt everything probably best left alone :-)

well said,

Well said Isabel! :)

I think someone's show career is about over, before it even begins lol

The Sealyham was not in my final line up, simply because I missed the Terrier group because my laptop threw a wobbler.. however.. when I saw the terrier on the move in lap of honour, I thought a well deserved win, (I had the poodle as BIS until I saw the Sealyham)  and thats from a gundog (through and through person ) lol..

to be perfectly honest.., ANY one of those dogs were good enough to take BIS.. however,,, we are not able to go hands on.. we dont know what is underneath.. only the Judge.. "on the day"  

He liked the poodle, he liked the Sealyham, and as with any judge for BIS.. He made HIS decision, ..

> I think someone's show career is about over, before it even begins lol
>

Yep i agree kayc.

I don't see how it can be a fix, its not like the BIS judge was chosen after Westminster or World Show, judges are chosen years in advance. Its just coincidence he's a terrier man and the sealyham has been doing so well.

I did like the Sealyham as it is a breed that appears to be "dying" out.   To be honest I thought all the contenders in BOS were superb - I did love the Pharoah Hound most though, so elegant.

As a breeder the main thing though would be to win BOB I guess?  What an achievement that would be LOL

Harriette

I think an expression of opinion in a year that has already been controversial for the kennel club is fair dibs. After  all arent we all entitled to ask why it is that so many show judges over so many years have courted controversy by their choices? I dont for one minute believe that the judge was a cheat..... a little biased perhaps, but then so many are by very nature of what they do thats human nature.  I feel it fair that someone can be permitte dto air their views on a given subject without fear of recrimination in a public forum.
jmho and one which I feel sure many more of you will flame.

oooh, you really are an incredibly friendly bunch in here arent you.....doesnt portray you in a very goodlight for genuine people wishing to learn does it.

floyd9t8, if you don't mind me saying this is a very bad way to start a showing career.  There is so much to learn before you start indulging in ring side gossip that you can't possibly know the real truth about.  Infact, even when you have learnt everything probably best left alone

I believe the original poster was only asking for other peoples takes on the scenario....... being new to the scene its a fair question and one which couldve been much more eloquently answered if people hadnt been so ready to try and 'scare them off' btw, a further question needs to be asked of showers as to whether it is really neccesary to make a dog yelp whilst having its ears cleaned ready for showing? or perhaps thats the difference between a show/owner and a pet dog owner?
I stand back and await the flaming.
:)

> further question needs to be asked of showers as to whether it is really neccesary to make a dog yelp whilst having its ears cleaned ready for showing? or perhaps thats the difference between a show/owner and a pet dog owner?
> I stand back and await the flaming.
>

??? i dont understand what your asking here?

As has already been said, he's not American but Welsh and furthermore, I've yet to meet anyone with a bad word to say about him. 

If he awarded it BIS, it would have been for no other reason than in his opinion, it was.

It's one thing to voice an opinion, it's quite another to cast aspersions and infer corruption or bias of some sort.

The person/persons is just yanking your chain.

I don't understand why people get so upset by the idiots! Just ignore them, they'll soon go away! ;-)

i loved the poodle myself but the Sealyham gave a stunning performance
and as it was a terrier man judging
it  would have had to be a perfect example of the breed to win
the judge is a highly respected dog man of many years both here and abroad
maybe you need to go and watch and study dogs in the ring
before you make these kind of remarks
especially as you are a novice at  showing

>> I believe the original poster was only asking for other peoples takes on the scenario....... being new to the scene its a fair question and one which couldve been much more eloquently answered if people hadnt been so ready to try and 'scare them off'

Interesting post bigbeautifuldog as you are also floyd9t8 . Please note that your other username has been removed.
Multiple usernames are prohibited.