I know it sounds awful but I'm feeling so down tonight. I'm overreacting I know because I already feel quite depressed...
Tessa is now 9 and a half months and her destructive behaviour is NOT improving. I've come home to the largest hole in the wall... I'm in tears because I don't even know how to repair it, it's completely through the wall to the soft paper behind... Plaster was everywhere mixed with water dribbled from their bowls and covering the room in white mess... Why does she do that!? When is it going to stop?! I know she's bored, but there's no need for this, she's got toys, she's got Sam for company and play... I'm feeling so hopeless it's untrue, I'm just crying and feeling utterly helpless. I'm renting this place. The room where they're left in the day is large and already metal panels and mesh panels cover most of the walls and floors, it's ridiculous... She found this new spot she'd never touched before and it is her masterpiece. A hole 1 meter high and 1/2 meter wide completely through the plaster.
Just need to share this, sorry.

Gaelle, I've had one do this in the past, and your right, it depresses you. But it does stop. Honest. Personally, I would consider a crate for a while, just until she has gone through the teenage phase of her life. I wouldn't leave her loose whilst you are out or you will come back to even more mess. My dog had 2 litter mates for company but still chewed through walls. I knew it was only him. It, erm, well, came out the other end ;-)

Owwwwww Gaelle!!!

((( Huge hug!! ))) come and sit in the CD kitchen, Kettles on...... Kleenx is on the table,next to the chocolate, help yourself ;)

Having always owned Siberians (our breed club has a section on the website devoted to 'Siberian destruction' ;)) I can empathise on amatuer excavations

I know you've to be careful with excercise (physical) with a youngster so may feel you don't 'wear her out' but have you thought of Mental stumulation?? I find this tires a dog out much better than physical excercise most times!
    When getting my little Eurasian used to us leaving her, I would play mental stimulation games with her, a bit of training,learning tricks... hunt and seek games, scenting games etc etc.... this meant she was out for the count for the short periods and long periods that we weren't about. (Favourite toys she'd play for hours with when we were home just got ignored while we werent there! typical isnt it;))

Perhaps you might try this? Somewhere I have a link to some good games (mentaly stimulating) that you can do.. I'll look it up and post when I find it.

Hope this helps or gives some inspiration? Im sure other will be along soon with more good tips and ideas :)
((( Hug))) you'll both work through this... there is light at the end of the tunnel.
Also check the time she is left for isn't too long for her just yet.

> It, erm, well, came out the other end

Rofl!! :-D Pardon the pun!

Why does she do that!? When is it going to stop?! I know she's bored,

Sadly, I think you've just answered your own question.  :-(  Are you still leaving her for 4-5 hours twice a day?  Have you got a neighbour going in yet?  What happened with the crate training?

she's got toys, she's got Sam for company and play.

Toys are boring unless there is someone on the other end to bring them to life!  An adult dog won't want to play all the time with a pup - they will want time out and peace and quiet.

Hi Gaelle, oh dear you do sound down in the dumps, poor you.
At 9 and a half months Tess is still very much a baby. I know you say she has toys and Sam for company, but she doesn't have YOU and it's you she is missing. Do you think it is a case of seperation anxiety or is she simply bored. Does she ever chew when you are in the house, if not then it is probably more a case of SA, rather than boredom and this obviously need addressing. When you are at home, does Tess have free access to you at all times? If so it might be an idea getting her used to being in "the dog room" whilst you are in the house and get her used to chilling out in there. Toys are great, but they dont tend to be much fun unless a human is joining in the game. Mental stimulation is far more tiring than physical exercise. Try giving her a bit of a mental workout before you leave her, even if it's only teaching her a few tricks. Half an hour before you are ready to leave her, don't pay too much attention to her. If it is that she is upset at your leaving her, then you can try and reduce some of triggers that get her in a panic. Try popping your coat on whilst you do a bit of housework, pick up your keys then put them down again, pick up your handbag and carry it around a bit, before putting it back down. They are all triggers that could put Tessa into an anxious state. Seperation anxiety is quite a problem to deal with, but I am sure you will get lots of excellent advice off other posters.

When you leave her, do you leave her anything to keep her busy, ie a stuffed kong? As well as leaving her a kong, try leaving her a selection of goody boxes to rip up and destroy. Fill empty boxes with a couple of bics, cubes of cheese, tiny strips of ham, etc, then punch a few holes in the sides and tape the box closed with good strong packaging tape. Whilst she is busy ripping open her packages, she isn't thinking Oh no Mum's left me, and she is tiring herself out. I bet Sam will enjoy joining in too. Give her a few to practice on when you are with her, then if she needs some encouragement rattle it and play with her with it until she gets the idea. Most dogs love ripping open packages and I am sure that once you have shown her what to do, she will have great fun doing it on her own. Plastic pop or milk bottles can also be used in a similar way, but don't put the cap on, just use a bit of tape across the top. To start off with, make the boxes easy for her to get into, as you don't want her getting bored, but you can work your way up to big thick boxes, that take ages to get into. I know you will come back to a mess of soggy card, but a quick tidy up and the room will be good as new. There are a lot of activity toys on the market, but I still think the old cardboard box is one of the favourites. Many years ago I used this strategy with a GSD, funnily enough called Tessa, and it worked a treat.

Good luck and enjoy her as a puppy, they grow up all too soon.

Opps Husky Gal and Gunner, managed to beat me to it!! Need to learn to type quicker.

I used to feel like I hated my dog a lot of the time, she came from rescue at a young age and was a real challenge to live with for what seemed like ages. We got through it but it was a baptism of fire.

As for fixing large holes in plaster, see if any of your mates know a decent builder who can come in and fix up the damage for you.

I agree with Lindy lou about the crate I am a crate convert since my last puppy. I kept it up until she was about 2 and she was well unhappy when I eventually took it down when we moved. Do you work the dogs at all agility, gundog, obedience etc. I love gundog training and this adds the mental stimulation which helps. I think it helps plus I love it and it gives us a great bond. Also at my training group there are a couple of builders who'd fix your wall if you ask nicely!!!!!

Thank you all for your advice. Some of it is definitely very useful. I do feel better now, I'm just a bit down at the moment and since my dogs mean so much to me, anything like that just really brings me down.
Tess seems to have phases of "destructiveness". She'd been fine for a month and then back to it recently. I know my situation is not ideal because my partner left and I'm left on my own with them, but I do do my best. She's not an easy dog. But she's very clever and self-confident... that's probably where the pb is! Too clever for her own good! So mental exercise sounds like a very good idea indeed as tiring her out physically is nearly impossible!
Thanks again everyone! Off to a bowl of chocolate ice cream now! (me, not the dogs!)

Gaelle, if you are not keen on the idea of a crate but have quite a bit of spare room you could try a pen.  I have got one for my pup which is 4' high and 16' square.  It cost less than £100 and i have attached it to the wall with cup hooks so it is against the wall but neither the wall, the sockets, skirting boards or any wires nearby can be chewed but the pup can have a bit of space when I am out without causing mayhem.

((((hugs)))) to you, I remember feeling that way about my staffy who chewed through walls, ate lino, chewed wires etc but it passes - eventually.

Oh sounds like a brilliant idea, I'll check them out on ebay!

>if you are not keen on the idea of a crate but have quite a bit of spare room you could try a pen

Not a bad idea, but watch that she doesn't jump out of it ;-) I don't know about your girl but mine could jump a 7' high fence if they really wanted to ;-) That's why I prefer to use a crate.

Gaelle,

It sounds like your bitch is rather brighter than average and is occupying her clever little brain when she gets bored. Being bright she'll get bored very much more quickly than the average pooch. It's a bit like the clever kid who breezes through fractions and algebra and whilst the rest of the class is still catching up the clever clogs starts acting the goat.

I've had a clever dog who managed to wreck skirting boards, chew out the side of the wall and destroy a variety of books! He turned out to be rather good at obedience and scent work.

Others here suggest brain work and I agree. Have you done any obedience training with her yet? If she knows basic commands like sit and wait, then you can hide treats, or other desirable objects, around the house and send her off to find them. It would be possible to do this before you go to work and will tire her far more than a long walk. If you haven't done obedience with her then do find a class asap because this will give you many more options in terms of working her brain. Eventually you can teach her to fetch your keys, items of clothing, empty the washing machine and so on.

Our brain uses more energy than any other organ in the body, so you don't need hours of exercise, just the right kind.

Take heart, she's still a baby and still learning about boundaries and about the outside world. The "I hate" refrain reminds me of so many friends who have become exasperated with their teenage children!

hi,
i can understand how you feel, quite a few years ago i had two boxers and when they were young they distroyed the stair banisters, a sideboard  and most things in the kitchen. I realised i was leaving them far to long on their own and they got stressed out even with lots of toys to play with.
As they got older all this did stop but i found they were alot better confined to a smaller space and would take them out for a walk morning ,lunchtime and again in the evening.not huge walks as they were young but enough that they burnt most the excess energy off.
On the walks i would practise things like sitting for a treat lying etc just to give a bit of mental stimulation and also good training.
It seems bad now but they do grow out of it. To be honest i would never get another dog again if i worked alot of hours because even toilet training can't be done very easily.i'm lucky that i no longer work and so only have to leave my three dogs for short periods of time when i go shopping etc but i always take them for a walk first so they sleep while i'm out. 

Sometimes they do make you dispair abit don't they?!

I would personally go for a large crate or a pen with very high sides to keep your pup contained.  In this she can have kongs filled with yummy things, toys to play with and chew etc.

Do you do much training with her?  I would consider taking her for a walk in the morning and go to a quiet field/park where you can do 15 - 20 mins of basic obedience e.g. heelwork, recalls, stays, waits, retrieves, basic sit, down, stands and whatever else you can think of.  This will hopefully use her brain and mentally tire her out before you leave her and go to work.  At lunchtime, let her have a little play and do a few more bits of training.  Then in the evening take her on a walk where she can play off lead.

I know my mum has had battles with her GSD's in the past - her boy many years ago used to take pictures off the walls, eat through sofa's, take the washing machine doors off and generally destroy any room he was in.  My mum would come home - then before going in the house she's walk around the block to calm down before opening the door to the destruction.  She decided to use a crate (they weren't so many about 20 odd years ago) and still had to use many padlocks on it as he used to break free.....
....on a positive note this GSD became the most wonderful companion to all of us growing up and was a really lovely boy.

Good luck and don't despair...she'll get there.

have you concidered a cage when your not in they do get used to them and its their little home they dont look at is as a cage, i found these problems with my 4, sbt but it keeps them from mischeif and from harming themselves 

sami

Years ago I had a Yorkie.  She was my second dog, the first (and still present at the time) a GSD.  The contrast in temperments between the two was so great and something I was not expecting.  I remember thinking that I hated the Yorkie.  She wore me out and seemed uncontrollable to me.  I even imagined ending her life in a horrible way, she frustrated me so much.   She was very difficult to housetrain and as soon as I gave her free time alone out of the crate she too would scratch through walls.  She destroyed the walls in my garage (which was attached to the house) and also scratched through the wallpaper and plaster in several places in the kitchen.  Now, the house was in a heavily wooded area and as I discovered full of mice ... so this was a combination of boredom and digging to get to mice in the walls (I suspect).

Anyway - that dog became my "once in a life time" dog.  I still cry when I think about her; I miss her so much.  She was the most clever, must cunning, most manipulative and utterly charming companion that I will ever have in my life.

I am convinced the ones that frustrate you the most when they are puppies are those that eventually have the strongest hold on you heart.

There is another possibility, you say that she is self-confident. There are 2 kinds of separation anxiety. One is when the dog in question is of a submissive nature and is upset because the pack leader, (you), is not around, though normally if there is another dog which the destructive dog considers to be higher up in the pack, then they are happy to accept the situation. The other type of separation anxiety occurs when the dog considers itself to be higher in status than you and when you go away the dog has effectively 'lost' one of the pack members for whom it considers itself to be responsible. This will drive the dog frantic with worry in the same way that if your child went missing you would break through a wall if neccessary in an effort to find it. There are several subtle pointers to indicate if this is the case with you and your dog, but a behaviourist would have to see you and the dog together to decide if this is the cause of the problem. You say that she stopped her destructive behaviour for a while and has only recently started again. This kind of ties in with the second theory as the first stage of destructiveness would have been normal puppy behaviour. It may be that she feels under pressure to take on responsibility for the pack at a relatively young age, (long before she would in the wild), because she can sense that neither you or the other dog are 'born leaders'. This is a problem that can be very easily solved but you need the help of a behaviourist to help you become more assertive and take over the roll of pack leader. You would probably find that she will be extremely relieved to have the pressure and responsibility taken off her young shoulders.

Gaelle, I got 2 8' pens and checked with the seller prior to buying if they could be extended.  I then undid the hinges and joined the 2 together and voila I have a 16' pen with 4' high walls.  Because it is designed like a cage with the hinges I can make it smaller or expand it to full height.  Most of the time I have it with 3 or 4 panels folded in so it is a manageable size.  It is a stroke of genius and I don't think either of my dogs could jump it as there isn't much room for them to get a run at it.  TBH neither of them have tried to jump stair gates either although they could.

I didnt read the whole thread, but I can totally sympathize with you.  My Cher, she was horrible!  I hated coming home to see what she had done, even if I was gone only for an hour. 

Training really helped her out.  She is much more calm, but still active.  She is also a dog that is too smart for her own good, and will get into trouble if given the chance with almost anything!  I started training her to work for me (sounds weird, but I trained her to pick things up for me, when I get get them) And now that she has a job, she is a lot better!  The only issue now, is she is sometimes to quick to pick something up I dropped, before I tell her too.  (I trained this because I am on crutches quite frequently, and hated falling over when I tried to get something off the ground!). 

Its hard, when you have a dog that is smarter than we are!  But it can also be very rewarding! 

Take care hun, it does get better!

if you arent brainy enough to put this poor dog in a crate for its own safety then rehome it! its obv very unhappy and shouldnt be left alone, surely you dont need a crystal ball to see this??

What a great help you are to the forum Tina!?
    Is re-homing really the only positive option you can come up with for this dog?
I own Siberian Huskies (main breed) and have never used cages, yet still have (as can be seen in my photos) an immaculate home (cream carpets,sofas) and as I no longer race, have only sedentary dogs that are no longer kenneled and so are home alone quite often between OH & I's shift changes.
    Turn your venom on me rather than someone who is clearly upset and is going through a difficult time (as she has stated a relationship break-up) and has only asked for help!

Poor show for an information exchange Tina :(
Especially as the OP has expressed interest in exploring the cage route (read the whole thread before sniping in!)

> if you arent brainy enough to put this poor dog in a crate for its own safety then rehome it! its obv very unhappy and shouldnt be left alone, surely you dont need a crystal ball to see this??

would you seriously crate a dog for hours on end?

Gaelle.. you need to take a step back.. sit down and take a good deep breathe.. this is not going to be easey..

you are going through so many things at the moment with your girl, she is a juvenille delinquent, hormonal (possibly due for 1st season).. and sounds like a very intelligent GR.. Intelligence kills me.. lol.. you really need to brain drain them..

I know you dont want to crate your girl.. but it may have to come to that, possibly just for a few months.. there is no harm in it..

I have been where you are right now.. I was in the process of selling my house.. and came down one morning to find Megan (dining room) and Connie (Kitchen) had completely removed the adjoining wall between them .. a good plasterer will cut a peice of drywall for your.. pin into place.. plaster over and you  can match paint to existing.. not the complete end of the world..

now.. back to the crate.. DO have a think about it.. you can buy huge Great Dane sized crates.. A pain in the backside to fit in a room.. but at least you will still have a room ;-)  The size the crate will give her loads of space.. possibly as much floor space as a spare room/box room in any house.. and possibly larger than she would have if kennelled..

Its not the complete answer.. but in the interim.. its possibly your safest..

Chin up.. CD has good shoulders

would you seriously crate a dog for hours on end?

no, i wouldnt but then i wouldnt own a dog unless it had human company most of the time

if you arent brainy enough to put this poor dog in a crate for its own safety then rehome it! its obv very unhappy and shouldnt be left alone, surely you dont need a crystal ball to see this??
would you seriously crate a dog for hours on end?

no, i wouldnt but then i wouldnt own a dog unless it had human company most of the time

Forgive my intrusion but I think the above replies are a little harsh and not the kind of support and advice that Gaelle needs right now, even if they do bare an element of common sense. 
Owning a dog will always bring about its challenges and sometimes push you to the limit, most of us, I'm sure will empathise with how Gaelle is feeling right now.
It is knowing that someone out there has had similar experiences and is able to provide different solutions which will enable Gaelle to find her own methods of dealing with her situation efffectively.
As I post this Khan has yet again found that annoying loose piece of carpet in the hall which is still awaiting his master's d.i.y attention!!
Chin up Gaelle! You know you will sit back and chuckle over this in years to come!

> would you seriously crate a dog for hours on end?
>
>

just to confirm this is at tinas comment and in no way aimed at gaelle!!!!

Hi HG
Some of us have been down a similar route already with this OP about a month ago.  If you look at the thread here: [url=][http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/cgi-bin/board/topic_show.pl?pid=1020793;hl=#pid1020793/url] you will see that on 12th Feb the OP says Well got the crate last night (won it on ebay without really trying!). It is pretty big actually In subsequent posts, she says that the crate training is going well.

In the original thread she says that the 9 month old pup is being left for 4-5 hours at a time - perhaps even twice a day, with the OP returning at lunchtime???? It's not altogether clear.  Tigger2 & Isabel suggested that the pup was being left for too long and that a dog walker should be sought.  It doesn't appear that the advice given has been taken on board.  I asked those questions in my post above but no answer has been forthcoming.   I appreciate that the OP's domestic situation is not great at the moment and that she is going through a big upheaval, but sometimes the direct approach, as per the post from Tina, is the wake up call that some people need.  Otherwise, we may all well be sitting here in another months time posting the same things.........................  :-(

Sorry, HG, not 'getting' at you, just wanting to point out why some of us.......okay, me!..... may be thinking what Tina has actually written. 

My opinion and comments remain as I first posted, perhaps in the light of your comments more so.
    In fact when you look at the 'reminder' Admin felt necessary to post on the TOS of this forum, I am not alone in my disbelief at the comments made by some posters to other posters problems!
    You catch more flies with honey than vinegar!
(Another adage we have see being posted recently by other posters of the same opinion of late!)

> not 'getting' at you

:) Oh I don't run in muddy fields and not expecting to get the odd smatter ;)
And ditto that comment! Jaded posters and comments do nothing for an information exchange however, especially one that gets thrown up in search engine enquiries as much as this forum does.

Thank you guys.
I do feel better today. Of course I love her and I know she'll eventually grow out of it. We do obedience and I do teach her tricks but she's still a very active and energetic dog! I will probably go for a LARGE pen, even if it's just to put the panels against the walls, I can't bring myself to crate her.
I know some people disagree with my lifestyle, but sometimes things change in your life, and it's just another phase, nothing permanent. I am trying to sort my life out, believe it or not, and I don't think I'm being selfish by hanging on to my dogs.
I knew I was going to expose myself to such comments with my posts as things like these always happen on forums, everyone's got an opinion on something and that's the beauty of it, even when sometimes it's a bit hurtful.

By the way, tried the boxes full of treats today and it was a success. Just need to find different things so that it's always new and interesting! I think she is probably a bit upset that my partner's gone, but other than that, they both seem very happy dogs and hopefully, we'll soon all be much happier again!

> By the way, tried the boxes full of treats today and it was a success.

Thats' good to hear :)

>Just need to find different things so that it's always new and interesting!

I found that smaller boxes inside larger boxes are a good hit, also scruch the treats up individually in sheets of newspaper, that way they have to unwrap each little 'sweetie' one at a time, rather than 'strike gold' as soon as they're into the box. :)

Hi Gaelle
Pleased you are feeling a bit better today. Great to hear the boxes of treats were a success. Try the empty bottles as well, as they tend to take longer to destroy. The idea of boxes inside boxes and scruched up paper sound a good idea too. Just a thought, have you done any clicker training, it would be a great way of mentally exhausting her in a very short time.
Good luck.
Jenny

> Just need to find different things so that it's always new and interesting!

there is a toy called a dog pyramid that she can play with alone but has to work at to get treats. have you tried playing a finding game with her for stimulation? (put a treat under a cup, put other cups beside it and move them and she needs to find it) basic, easy to do, cheap and still stimulating.

> I think she is probably a bit upset that my partner's gone

and that your upset, it will be throwing her. have you tried a DAP diffuser? they can be helpful to.

Hi again,

> I knew I was going to expose myself to such comments with my posts as things like these always happen on forums, everyone's got an opinion on something and that's the beauty of it, even when sometimes it's a bit hurtful.

I think that's a good philosophy to have :)
The vast majority of members on here have first and foremost the dogs well being at heart. So a stern post can often make a new member blanche, but like Gunner said sometimes people need a wake up call. There is however a vast difference between a stern post with sound and important advice and a stern post that is just personal snipe with no advice.The latter we can all do without.
        You do need to work on all aspects of this situation, and Im sure no-one knows this better than you! Sometimes when we're under a lot of stress its hard to see the wood for the trees, and what might seem an obvious solution or problem to an outsider simply cannot be seen by the person in the middle of it all. (nothing to do with brains ;0) I'm sure we have all been there in life (be it work,dogs,relationships....)
       So keep the questions coming :) But actions have to follow them, we get out what we put in.

Here is the link I promised earlier : Mental games for Dogs

Had you considered looking into a dog walker? even if it was just someone to come in and spend time with them throw balls in the garden or take out for a walk.If so how have you got on? (remember the money you pay on this would be money spent on house damage if not spent on a walker ;))

Best wishes, keep us posted.

Just poking my nose in but I tried the 'hide treat under box' trick with Khan - he removed box quickly and ran off with it, forgetting all about the treat! Crafty canine that he is knew which was more fun!!

My Hubby bought a box game of dog games at christmas.
I followed the instructions one cone then two etc until I lined up all the little cones, planted my treat under  and laughed ech time as Roxy rammed every cone by running down the line before standing back, looking to see the treat then running off with it - great fun her way I think