Please, could we all stop arguing between ourselves on what is right? What one believes!

I have had this topic locked!!!! Cannot even get a reply on, why is this?

Firstly i have had puppy 2 weeks now and i have been doing the swap one for higher etc etc!!! ERM ITS NOT WORKING!!!

This method seems ok and i can appreciate why but if i pick my girl up to move, groom etc etc and she doesn't want to then she growls, raises her lips, twists and contorts her body to get her teeth in to my flesh.... Oh and succeeded last night and drew BLOOD!!!!

So i appreciate your help! If she is Peeing and i pick her up to go outside is it normal behaviour for her to bite me?  I realise you say it is not real aggression, but you know what its pretty real when you are on the receiving end not the typing end!!! So my 10 year old son comes home from school and is happy to see pup picks her up for cuddle and she bites him, is it ok for me to say, dont worry son its just her being a puppy, if you want to cuddle her offer her something nice first and then maybe she wont hurt you so!! My family should be able to hold our pup without worrying she will turn. Oh and maybe next time i will film it and put it on youtube for you to watch.... Unfortunately all you who say its not agression, its pretty aggresive to me

She has stopped chewing, nipping etc etc so she is open to praise and i have worked very hard with her behaviour, so its not a lack of supervision.

So please help!!! I am at my wits end  Many thanks

You have been given some good advice already - amongst some - shall we say - questionable advice.

Might I suggest that you read "The Bite stops here" - http://www.jersey.net/~mountaindog/berner1/bitestop.htm

I've found this to be very useful, and have suggested it to others with "troublesome" puppies with success.

I would add that your now 10 week old puppy is still a baby - and you have brough him into a household with two other dogs plus children ....its an absolute wonderland for  puppy - all these things/smells/other dogs - you have to take him away from all of this in order to train him to do what YOU want him to do - and not what he wants to do!

Think about a 10 month old baby - how much would you expect that baby to have learned?

Good luck!

Margot

Hi chip,
It seems like you have a serious problem with this pup.
Firstly what were its parents like? were they sociable and friendly? were they reared in the home or a kennel/shed? were they handled by the breeder and family members right from the second they were born?
Did you see any of its litter mates?
Have you contacted the breeder and if so what was the response?
Would you say pup is outgoing,coming to greet you happily or backing away from you?
Does pup appear nervous,does she run and hide from strangers,noises,objects that she has not seen before?Can you handle her at all or is she biting every time you touch her?
Sorry I'm asking a lot of questions but to try to understand whats going on I have to know exactly how your pup reacts to things.

Loki's mum has given an excellent link to methods that really do work. But of course nothing will work instantly - in a few weeks the puppy will be less 'mouthy'.

Many puppies truly hate being picked up - it sounds as if yours is one of them, so do as much as you can at floor level without picking her up. I get vertigo, so would react extremely badly if someone kept lifting me up as well!

>dont worry son its just her being a puppy, if you want to cuddle her offer her something nice first and then maybe she wont hurt you so!!

No, say "Don't worry son, it's just her being a puppy; if you want to cuddle her get down onto the floor to do it"

How calm do you keep your household? Does she have plenty of nap-times? An over-tired or over-wound puppy, just like a toddler, will often have a tantrum.

Think about a 10 month old baby - how much would you expect that baby to have learned?

Well thank you about the article i will def give it a read...

as for the above, i must be lucky as non of my 10 month old babies ever tried to bite me :-) ha ha

> i must be lucky as non of my 10 month old babies ever tried to bite me :-) ha ha

You obviously didn't b/feed until a year :) !   I remember a tiny little glint appearing in the eyes and then .......CHOMP! Ouch ouch ouch!

But I did get used to watching for it, and having little finger ready to slip in to stop!

Margot

hi i dont know if this will help, i had a litter last year, and the bitch that i kept was a bit funny with me, if i cuddled her and rubbed her back she would do the same kind of thing, i didnt want to smack her because it dont work that way however, i would grab the skin on the back of her neck and push her to the floor so her cheak was touching the floor, i tried to be quite firm but not agressive and i told her no quite loudly, i had to do this quite a few times, i purposely did it and each time she behaved i would do i again and again, until eventually she would run away from me,. or she wouldnt look at me,

i have sbt and this breed i feel needs dominating over asap,

maybe your puppy was the bitch, literally... my girl was and this is why i feel she was like this....

i hope this might help you,

sami

just a thought... can she hear commands?  could she be deaf? you touching her may scare her she cant see what your doing and biting as a reflex?

I do appreciate what your saying.... However NON of you are really listening...

You are trying to say its normal behaviour yet everone i have spoken to with dogs away fom this site has never had this happen, chewing and nipping n play yes, but not aggression.  No-one else says its my fault or make your children sit on the floor, i have told them what you have advised and they think the same as me... Pup's can be yes mischevious, naughty, playfull, growl when playing e.g. rope toy pulling fun. But i should be able o trust the pup around small children, nevermind my pre-teenage boys. 

My boys are taught respect especially where my pup's are... Noo my chihuahua is so friendly, you see we have done this puppy stage before..

>No, say "Don't worry son, it's just her being a puppy; if you want to cuddle her get down onto the floor to do it"

my boys do play with the pup on the floor, so what am i to say.... DONT PICK HER UP AND PLAY WITH HER ON YOUR KNEE??? (1 foot off the floor) I need advise on how to stop this behaviour now as she is a pup and open to learn.  God help us if we ever go to a park and some child tried to hug or play with her... What do i explain to the people?? " Dont worry the people on CHAMPDOGS say its your fault because you wanted to hug her, its typical behaviour"?  I dont think it will wash very well with the courts or the vets who have her put to sleep!! Its not my boys who need training its the pup!! lol 

My household is very calm, my boys are not boisterous and have their own room so they come and visit our pup when she has had her sleep for small (bitesize No pun intended) plays so not to stress or overwhelm the pup, i have great children.

> How calm do you keep your household? Does she have plenty of nap-times? An over-tired or over-wound puppy, just like a toddler, will often have a tantrum.

So now how many of you had babies that liked to bite and scratch when they were having a tantrum??? Because my 4 children.... NOT ONE!!!

I'm sorry if this seems so strong but most of you seem so interested in your idea's that "a puppy cant be like this!" and are not giving advise on how to stop and ensure the pup lives a healthy happy life... "this puppy is like this and i just want a few non violent tips on how to bring this to a stop...

Reward based does not seem to work... She will not even recall, for a lovely treat??? 

I do love this pooch and wish to make sure she doesn't turn out like the other Miniature Schnauzer in the other thread... I'm guessing a bit of good advise there at a young age could have stopped all is and saved her a lot of stress and embarasment. 

I'm not big on training but one observation I have made in life is, calm people often have calm dogs......................... and vice versa.
If you find the advise here so unhelpful, and it seems to me to have extended well beyond disbelief that this can be happening, perhaps you should continue seeking help from your previous contacts.

Hi roscoebabe: ask away i really need the advise...

Pup is friendly, does not back away.  Breeder brought pup up indoors and like me has older boys.  I contacted her an asked for her advise, she told me the pup's father was a big handful at this age and growing up, so i need to be very firm with her (no smacking etc) but she will need a firm owner.  The litter mates where calmer than Heidi, breeder advised on which pup i was getting i didn't choose her, i did meet all pup's and all where very beautiful and healthy and... well puppies.  She let me have heidi as i had older boys and wouldn't let pup go to small children household as she was very lively and mischevious.  Non of this bothers me as all i want is help on how to stop this part of her behaviour.  In every other way she is fantastic.  Heidi is very playful, happy, plenty of wig wags loves Noo and my boys, it really is only an issue of stopping her growling and biting when picked up.... I really should be able to handle my own dog shouldn't i???

>My family should be able to hold our pup without worrying she will turn.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but this is a puppy you're talking about - a living being, not a toy or doll. Anything you want to be able to do with your puppy YOU HAVE TO TEACH IT. If pup doesn't like being picked up, the more you pick it up, the stronger it's reaction is going to be because the poor little mite is trying it's hardest to tell you it does not want to be hoisted into the air and is going to be forced to try harder to let you know that.
The puppy has several ways of communicating with you - body language, growling/vocals and biting/mouthing if it doesn't like something it can only show you with body language maybee freezing/tensing, ears back/dropped etc. all things that are easy to miss if you are not looking for it, failing that it can growl and bite you - a perfectly natural way for a puppy to comunicate which is why everybody is telling you that the pup is NOT being aggressive ('aggressive' implies the dog knows how you expect it to behave but is resorting to physical violence), it is simply doing the only thing it knows how to do. Pup will continue to act like this untill it is trained and can trust you, this takes lots of time, consistency and above all patience. The pup can not understand the words you say, you have to TEACH it the words you want it to know.

If you resort to scruffing your pup, shouting, pinning it down then you WILL end up with an aggressive DOG, because the pup will learn it can't trust you and the only thing that would have taught is physical force is the way to communicate :(

Please read the bite stops hear and I suggest you read other books on general puppy behaviour.
All of us that have had a pup knows how puppies behave, some are more vocal than others but they all start out using thier teeth to comminicate & explore thier world.

>If she is Peeing and i pick her up to go outside is it normal behaviour for her to bite me?

Why not? My pup hated being picked up the answer- I STOPPED PICKING HIM UP, there was no way I would be picking him up as an adult so there was no point him getting him used to be hoised into the air. Thin kof the size of your pup & how high it is when you life her - it would be like somebody hoisting you up so your head is 50 ft off the floor - scarey stuff!!

> just a thought... can she hear commands?  could she be deaf? you touching her may scare her she cant see what your doing and biting as a reflex?

I thought the same LOL... But she can hear the rattle of the puppy food going in the bowl... ha ha ha

Its def a dominance issue, she thinks she is over me obviously, the treat for good behaviour has worked on everything except this one issue.  She is a quick learner, withing the two weeks i have had herwe have managed to curb, nipping and chewing the furniture (well everything actually).  But she will not do recall, she ignores me lol and the snapping issue. 

I really do not know what else to suggest - we have all suggested things that we KNOW have worked with puppies we have/had or have experience of.

This is your third dog?   Do you remember the other two as puppies?    Or has the fact that they are now calm dogs obliterated the memory of them as pups? 

What do you want us to say?   Send the puppy back to its breeder?   Get a stuffed toy instead?

We are not right beside you, we are here in cyber space.   Champdogs we may be - but miracle workers, we ain't!

I'm sorry I cannot offer any more constructive suggestions than those I gave a couple of hours ago - and even those suggestions will not work in such a short space of time.

Give it time - decide amongst your family who is going to be primary trainer, and then everyone else defer to the primary trainer - and - most importantly - ALL USE THE SAME METHOD!

Good luck.

Margot

is she only 8 weeks and you have had her 2 weeks? so she was 6 weeks when you got her? is that right?
i think the problem may be she was seperated far too young from mum and litter mates, she hasnt learned "dog law" yet.

Mastifflover as advised before.... I dont hoist my pup in to the air!!! I'm talking when i am on the floor with her.... hello, we reading the same link? 

mahonc She was 7 weeks and 5 days when i picked her up, i have now had her for two weeks so she is just coming up to 10 weeks old...

>so what am i to say.... DONT PICK HER UP AND PLAY WITH HER ON YOUR KNEE??? (1 foot off the floor)

Exactly that, at the moment. It may be only one foot off the floor to you, but if you think of it from her point of view it's over twice her height - much like you being expected to be relaxed and happy on your bedroom window-ledge!

>So now how many of you had babies that liked to bite and scratch when they were having a tantrum???

It was quite common among the children when I worked at a nursery.

>I dont hoist my pup in to the air!!! I'm talking when i am on the floor with her.... hello, we reading the same link? 

I thought you said it happened when you picked her up? In fact I'm certain you did. Yes - you said:
"If she is Peeing and i pick her up to go outside"

>this puppy is like this and i just want a few non violent tips on how to bring this to a stop...

If the whole family consistently follows the advice given in the link, that's what you'll have.

i personally think that to be too young to leave mum and litter mates.
if she does indeed has aggression issues which i would say at this age is rare as everyone has said, its usually ironed out by litter mates or mum teaching manners in the dog world.
when she bites do you pull back your hand quickly to stop or retreat in any way?
she may have quickly learned that if she doesnt want to do anything their is no consequence.
IF it is the fact she has learned no manners perhaps enrolling her in a puppy class would help, most vets will have details.
she will not be allowed by other pups to have such tantrums and proffessionals will be there to advise you of how to handle situations that you and your pup are getting yourself in

> Mastifflover as advised before.... I dont hoist my pup in to the air!!! I'm talking when i am on the floor with her.... hello, we reading the same link? 

No I don't think we can be 'reading the same link'! You said that your pup bites you when you pick her up to take her for a wee - I assumed you must be standing up in order to walk her out to the garden. I obviously have jumped to the wrong conclusion, you must put pup on your lap and shuffle on your botton to the garden??

Just as a matter of interest.... Would picking her up more and rewarding good behaviour work???  Rather than having to let Heidi dictate???

No i dont pull away fast, to be honest i just pop her back on the floor. If she has behaved really bad as in last night, i gave her a time out!!!  I've only had one incident today so far so fingers crossed LOL.  I just wanna nip this in the bud for all our sakes and wondered if there was anything else i could try that maybe worked for others... Ah well!!

No mastifflover i said if she is weeing on the floor... Not in mid air... I go to her to stop her to let her kow it is wrong.... Should i let her pee first??? Or shall i check other topics to see what advise is given there?? Maybe i could find some of yours.... or is that different.  I think you are being very personal and i have reported you to the moderator...

i would stop going to her, call her over for a stroke and then give her a treat and send her on her way.
there is a saying and its "let sleeping dogs lie" not actually sure if it has to do with dogs but its something to remember.
she might never be a person orientated dog, my friends lab dislikes cuddles and is more dog orientated than person orientated.
join a puppy class, i thinh she is too young to have been seperated too young from mum and her litter mates and has not been taught any manners.

> I think you are being very personal and i have reported you to the moderator...

I cannot understand why you are giving this poster the time of day Mastifflover.  It is certainly rather less than thanks :-)

> Would picking her up more and rewarding good behaviour work???  Rather than having to let Heidi dictate???
>

If she bits you every time you pick her up, then no, picking her up more will not help. She needs to get used to you handling her first (with treats for positive reinforcement). ie. when she is calm, stroke her, if she's happy with that then maybee put your hand around her as if you are going to lift her (without picking her up) & give her a treat. When she is happy with that (consitently happy, maybe after a few days of this) then lift her onto you lap for example & give her a treat.
She is not dictating to you, she is telling you that she doesn't like it (or it frightens her), if you want to be able to pick her up you need to take the time so she enjoys being picked up.

Can't you go back to the Breeder for advice? Honestly, everyone on here has tried to help you, yet you come out with all this shouting? May I suggest you pay a Behaviourist for the advice?

Thank you mahonc, i'll ask my vet for good class and see. 

I was hoping for inspiration, it looks like you lot only have one way of teaching and if that doesn't work, you run out of ideas and give up.... Well thank you!!! FOR>>>> WELL NOT MUCH!!! Oh and heidi would like to say, cheers for that!!!  I wont bother with this site anymore.  You like the sound of your own typing(voices) far too much!!!.  Or maybe i'll stay and advise new people just how unhelpful you lot can be... My last thread you all forgot about my plight and continued on something else with no relevance, until it was locked!!! I rest my case!!!.... I shake my head in despair.

> I think you are being very personal and i have reported you to the moderator...

I wasn't being personal, I was being sarcastic in respone to your sarcasm, silly of me yes, but not a personall attack.
I am sorry I hadn't read this before I took the time to give you some more advice :(

> I go to her to stop her to let her kow it is wrong.... Should i let her pee first???

She toilets inside & you tell her off this is a big no no. If she pees etc indoors, then clean up the mess, deodorize & say nothing, when she goes outside mega praise every time & treats. She isn't doing it to show dominance, puppies are not "programmed this way.

As for recall well she needs to find you more interesting than what she is doing & she also needs to feel safe to return to you.

It is a total fallacy that dogs want to dominant humans, the "pack"order is all about breeding & humans do not come in canine breeding orders.

You need to build trust between you & your puppy, she must trust you enough not be be worried by being picked up & touched.

This doesn't happen overnight & in the period of time you have been posting is way to short to say"I've tried everything & nothing works"I've had my BC bitch for nearly 18 months & we are still working on her issues from her previous life

>you lot only have one way of teaching and if that doesn't work

With due respect, I think you're expecting too much too soon. You've only had Heidi for two weeks and yet you think all problems should have been ironed out by now. It doesn't work like that I'm afraid. Before you can teach a puppy anything it needs to trust you totally, and at the moment it seems from your posts that Heidi hasn't yet reached that stage. Build her trust first, then you'll be amazed how much easier it all becomes.

> With due respect, I think you're expecting too much too soon

true.

you are talking about a recall. i know people still working on their recall at 2yrs.

Hi Chip,

Welcome to Champdogs, I'm sorry to see you feel the information exchange has not been helpful to your particular situation.
   I can totally understand how wound up you must be feeling, your obviously worried and it can get confusing for some folk, we're all different :) (thankfully! :))
  I'm passing you a cuppa, now chill me old china...... there's nothing that a cuppa cant cure ;)

At the bottom of this page you will see a white box and it has the words 'google site search' on a little button below it.
See it? Grand! now type into the box 'puppy aggression' and hit the google site search button and it will take you to a list of all the posts people have ever made on this forum.
     You will see the posts go back to 2001!! But you will also see that the advice you have been given is the same..ah ah ah woah now!!.... stick with me! don't shout me out just yet!! (I got chocolate here too on the go if you bear with me!) Its the same advice....but you'll see that over the years its been given by many different people!
       It does work but it does take time remember that saying 'Rome wasn't built in a day' ( and I tell you what I own the worst breed for this The 'I'll do it when I want'-Siberian Husky ;) I've really had to learn patience with my training.
      MY present Sibe was a Rescue Kept in a shed for first year of his life by some idiot... so can you imagine what I  had to deal with!! It took me another year there after to turn him around I tell you what lots of patience layer but not an awful lot of hair!!! ;) Now he is amazing the calmest most placid dog I've had in a while!
     I guess I'm saying hang in there.......
     And that I'm quite sure no-one wishes to cause you upset but to help.

Would you consider getting (an accredited) Behaviorist or trainer to come to you and help you with handling techniques. (This is often very beneficial for owners education as well as dogs! I consider myself experienced with dogs but I have never had any qualms with calling in a behaviorist in the past) Its reassuring to have someone there and then to see exactly what happens when it happens.
Click this link if that solution interests you Asos.Pet Dog Trainers UK
Hope this helps. ( and don't forget Behavior breeds behavior ;))
Best wishes Liv. :)

> I wont bother with this site anymore. 

Chip - I'm sorry you feel like that ......is that how you are with the training of Heidi?   If so, what more do you expect?

maybe my suggestion of a stuffed toy isn't so far out after all :(

Mastifflover, she is ok most of the time with being picked up and loves tickles on her tum, its only when she doesn't want to be picked up, by this i mean on the floor and only on my knee.  If she pee's i clap my hands to distract her and shuffle her to the door, either by picking her slightly of the ground or running to the door myself with her following.  However on the odd occasion i do pick her up fully when you forget and sweep her up in to your arms, she is ok with it... In fact will kiss you face all over.  I o love this dog, it just very frustrating.  It is aggressive behaviour to me

A few general comments. Chip, this is a sincere comment but you are being kind of demanding - at the end of the day, we offer advice for free here, so getting cross with any of us really isn't helpful, although I appreciate you are very stressed and worried right now :)

OK that's behind us! In my view, you have a mini Schnauzer and she will be probably at her worst right now in terms of puppy biting. I have a BSD and she was terrible around 14 weeks or so, but was so much better at around 20-22 weeks. I did think she'd never stop I will say as she was very bitey compared to my other BSDs. Now, the techniques (I've )mentioned DO work, even with bitey puppies, but the problem is there are variables that we can't help with - ie  your timing, your body language, your environment, your relationship, other people's advice you may take on board, your individual character and your pups too  - all these things will possibly add some confusion or at least difficulty to what you are trying to do, which is basically get advice on how to bring up a puppy, a feisty terrier like one at that, over the net :)

It is hard to explain well over the net - my suggestion is that you book a one to one session with a good trainer or behaviourist and get some hands on help from a reputable professional. You will also get reassurance which IMO you probably need as you are worried.

That's the mouthing. Now, with the "aggression" again I think you need a professional on board because again you can get good advice. If you get help now, it will be well worth it in the long run as she is malleable - if you wait too long listening to various people, whoever they may be (and "experts" usually those who have "been in dogs for 30 years" will always come out of the woodwork and put in their view which may have worked on their dogs but which may not be tried and tested for owners such as yourself :( The dog next to me was put to sleep because the owenr took advice to punish her for her guarding instead of using more positive techniques - he listened to the self styled experts on walks he met who happened to own the same breed, which meant my advice went out the window sadly :( and in showing her "dominance" she bit all up his arm after it had escalated from puppy hood to around 18 months...).

So what I am trying to say is, in a long winded way, don't say reward based doesn't work (it takes time) but also do realise there may be more needed than you can get via the net and I'd advise professional advice, I'd suggest:

http://www.apbc.org.uk/

or here:

http://www.apdt.co.uk/local_dog_trainers.asp but do check the they use modern up to date methods and no forcing or punishment except perhaps consequences.

Lindsay
xx

Well defused HG.

Hopefully Chip won't turn her back on us just yet!

Chip - Hang in there & I'm sure you'll see improvements & be rewarded for your hard work & patience!

(This is often very beneficial for owners education as well as dogs! I consider myself experienced with dogs but I have never had any qualms with calling in a behaviorist in the past) Its reassuring to have someone there and then to see exactly what happens when it happens.

Put much more succcinctly than me! :)

Right here we go then!
If she was mine I would start grooming her 2/3 times a day, getting her used to being brushed both while she is standing and lying down.Handle her feet as if you are going to clip her nails,inspect her teeth(ha ha) and gums,check her ears and eyes,keeping everything nice and calm,talking calmly to her and offering really tasty treats when she is being good. Get all family members to groom her not just you.I would not pick her up at this stage,if you have to get her outside I would have a light lead attached to her collar so I could guide her outside rather than picking her up. The more you pick her up the more she will bite and it will become a habit very hard to break. I read on one of your previous replies that she wont come when called,again attach a light line to her collar and practice recalls that way. Call her to you with a treat while "reeling" her in and give the treat. My one lad would go deaf when I called him but using a long line and treats now he has a brill recall,I only have to ask if he wants a sweetie and he'll come running back at top speed bless him! You can practice recalls in the house garden in fact anywhere,even if you have to use the line to bring her to you you are still teaching her to come when called. Give the treat and tell her to go play again.Do this as many times as you can.Do use the same word though as you are teaching her the sound as well as the action. You can use any word you like as long as it is the same word evey time. Hand feed all her meals,do not put her food down and leave her alone,you could end up with a dog that guards her food and bites if you go near her dish.Give large treats that you can take from her,if she lets you then stroke her and give the treat back to her.She just needs to learn the rules.
Good luck
Kind regards

I can really endorse what many posters have said on here.  I thought I had an agressive puppy too.  I became quite afraid of her.  She was a food guarder and about the same age of yours growled and snapped at me.  She also decided that she didn't like the way I handled her - ear drops, grooming etc and put her little puppy foot down.  She is a collie and apt to snap.  I came on here and had so much help and support that I have stuck with her even though she has her little moments when my husband says - right she is going -not keeping an agressive dog.  But she isn't aggressive - she is nervous and all my handling of her when she was young was too fast, too confident (because I was used to handling my old dogs)   She is 3 now coming up 4 and I still handle her with respect - no fast actions - let her know exactly what I am doing and praise her for standing quietly.  She will snap if she feels threatened - I do say snap not bite because we have always respected that warning.  I know her now but I have still let her down by getting too het up about something - like grabbing her when she went to rush out of the door.   I still have her and am still working with her.  As everyone says - it takes patience and time!  Good luck

Chip, I have been reading this thread with interest, you've been given some brilliant advice, getting cross because you don't agree with it is the wrong attitude to have, your talking to a wealth of experience here, hundereds if not thousands of dogs have been helped with the advice given from very experienced people, many of us have trained dogs for years and reared an assortment of breeds.

I personally don't like any of my pups going to homes with small children because they may bite, scratch, pull and tug, snarl and drag playmates around, to begin with they may do the same to us as they know no different and they will automatically go for young children as they are smaller, they can hurt and their teeth are sharper than an adult dogs when in the mood for play, so it is easy for a pup to draw blood and hurt us, which is why many of us are not looking at it as a serious problem, it is not a sign that you will have an aggressive dog, what you do have is a pup which is communicating through play and language as one of the more prominant bitches in a litter does.

It is natural that some bitch pups in a litter IME can be quite full on, I can personally understand that you would be horrified that a 10 week old pup acted aggressively whenever you picked it up. I agree you should be able to pick up your new pup without getting bitten. But this is why, your own body language and movements need to be looked at the pup knows no boundaries at the moment and needs to learn to treat you as a human, so in the meantime, take all the previous advice and the links given, if I had a pup that drew blood when I picked it up, I would firstly make a big OW! (so that it knew I was hurt, just as a sibling pup would do) and not pick it up until it trusted me and learnt I was not to be treated as a dog!

Whilst toilet training I've always picked a pup up half way through to put outside to finish and then praise, so what you are doing is not wrong, but this pup is biting when picked up so I simply would not do it at the moment and re-think my training of her.

Just worth a thought, I'm sure this is just an over-zealous pup, but in cases like this is it perhaps worth a vet check, to see whether there is any pain occuring whilst being picked up?

Pups have a lot to contend with, they are used to playing and communicating in a certain way, are in a strange environment and not able to do what comes naturally anymore, it is hard for them, it takes weeks and months to learn to live in a human world, some pups are quiet and easy, some complete lunatics, protect yourself and your children from the snapping teeth and nails, and slowly and surely follow the advice, you don't have a monster here, although it may feel that way, she will grow up. :-)

Lorraine - great but in a very gentle fashion, building up to it with plenty of encouragement and treats.

I might be wrong for doing this but I always gave my pups a little settling period before I let my children near them, about a week or two just so they got used to things and their new home then would gradually introduce them to each other....it always worked for me that way anyway.

If she pee's i clap my hands to distract her and shuffle her to the door, either by picking her slightly of the ground or running to the door myself with her following.

You've had lots of good advice here -and some terrible advice too, but Mastifflover, Jeangenie, Moonmaiden HuskyGal, Lindsay etc -listen to them. And please do NOT clap your hands when your puppy wees on the floor, do NOT shuffle it towards the door, as was mentioned before you IGNORE accidents indoors and praise when puppy goes outside. All of this -picking puppy up, carrying it outside, clapping hands etc -the poor pup is confused and insecure and reacts in the only way a puppy knows how to. Forget the dominance theories (from the 1940's! we don't listen to childcare advice from then either), dogs don't work like that. Dogs like people work much better if rewarded for the good behaviour, so you need to ignore the bad behaviour, but even more importantly AVOID it happening in the first place. I don't know what breed this is, but I see no reason for any breed to be picked up and cuddled or sat on the lap. I have two very different breeds, Malinois (so big and strong) and Papillons (small) -both are treated much the same by us here as both are dogs and in fact both have very similar temperaments. My Papillons, despite being cat sized (or in the case of the smallest, half the size of a cat) do NOT like being picked up, so we don't do it. My 9 year old son now and then picks the smallest up and so she reacts by growling -telling him no, I don't like this. If he doesn't put her down on the floor again, she will bite him. That's what happens when a warning doesn't work -what else can the dog do if it is not listened to? All the Papillons love sitting on our laps, but not being forced to do so. So we sit down and if they choose to come and sit on our laps, fine -everyone's happy. If they don't want to, it doesn't happen. The great majority of dogs do NOT like being picked up, no matter if it is just a foot or more.

I think this pup just needs to learn hands are good thing. It will take time but if you can get through the next few weeks I think you will see a big difference in this baby.

Hi Chip, you have had some really good advice already by people far more experienced than me.  But I just wanted you to know other people have been in your situation, and come through it (with bells on!).  My first Leo pup was the spawn of satan at this age, he hated being picked up (I wouldn't normally carry a pup, especially of his size, but due to an early illness his vaccinations were given later than usual and I still had to get him out socialising).  Besides this he was very mouthy, and would snarl and snap when he didn't get his own way.  I too had owned other pups and never had this problem, and felt really out of my depth.  I used time-out on many occasions and also had him on a training line so I didn't have to physically touch him when I needed to move him.  I must admit there were times I was scared of him, and really thought it would never end.  However, with consistency and patience he turned into the most wonderful, placid dog, who I trusted with my life.  It took a whole lot longer than 2 weeks (months and months!) but it really was worth it in the end. Hang on in there!

I have steered well clear of this thread.. but its driving me crazy..

Chip, I do appreciate you are having problems.. been there done that.. and STILL doing it.. You have been giving some wonderful advice , but rome wasn't built in a day.. (the one I am still working on is now 3 years old) 

I often wonder why people persist in lifting/picking up baby puppies.. we dont go around picking up our human babies..

Puppies do 3 things.. eat, sleep and piddle/poo.. those are natural, everything else is a learning curve to them.. hands are completely new.. and with young children, a couple of adults.. all these tiny little pups see are these huge hands coming towards them to 'lift' them.. which truly is the most horrible sensation.. akin to sea-sickness..

So what is she piddles.. ignore her, clean it up without fuss.. and call her to 'come' outside with you.. and stay outside with her for a while.. just walking around, she will follow you or go do her own thing.. but at some point she will piddle again.. and thats when you lavish praise on her.. vocally and treat.. you dont need to lift her..

the more you show your frustration, the less she will actually learn.. maybe even realising that widdling upsets you, and begins to find a hidden corner somewhere ...

Some pups take up to 6months to become fully housetrained.. you need to learn patience.. and I am afraid you are going to have to be more strict with the children.. they need to stop lifting and playing with pup ..

Ideal playtime for child and pup, is soon after pup has woken from sleep, and has gone for widdles etc.. a 5/10 min play rolling ball along the floor for a fetch etc..

Please try and stay calm, I know it isnt easy, but getting yourself worked up and upset, about something we ALL go through and have come through the other end, is not helping the puppy understand you.. and possibly compounding the issue..

However,, if you truly feel that we have not given you ALL the benefit of the majority of our VAST cumulative experience, then I can only agree with the others,, you need to speak to her breeder, or seek a behaviourist.. but there is no need to get angry with those who are/have tried to help..

Chip
Re housetraining.........at 10 weeks of age your pup can hold her bladder for only c30-40 mins during the daytime when awake.  You need to set her up to succeed and pre-empt the need to go to the toilet and take her outside to the same spot after every meal/drink, after every sleep, after every play session and every 30-40 mins if none of the above events have happened. 

When she is outside, stay with her and when she performs praise her lavishly and say 'good wee-wees' or whatever.  This is the start of teaching her to go on command, which really does make life a lot easier!

Also, gross as it may seem, start to keep a pee/poo diary!!  :-)  For 48 hours log everytime she goes and has a wee or a poo - note the time of day and what was happening/had happened....how long after a drink/sleep/play etc etc.  Very soon you will begin to see a pattern emerge and this will help you ensure there are no accidents.

My pup was very full on, he would growl at us if we walked past him and he meant it, he would bite if we picked him up and would throw paddies a 2 year old child would be proud of   nothing like my other two as pups, was a complete shock to the system
He is nearly 6 months old now, yes he is a very confident pup :), but he doesn't do any of that now, thanks to the helpful advice on here and training classes.

I think people have given you great advice, these things just take a little time.

Best wishes and good luck

My sincerest apologies and thanks.  It is so difficult to put in words, when no-one can read your mind.  Thank you, i will def try some of the practices.  Toilet training will be done with patience, as was with Noo and she toilets on demand. I am not an irresponsible dog owner, just a panic stricken one (Joke).  As stated not all practies work on every dog, i just wanted a few good ones to try.  I now have these and i do appreciate your help, well Heidi will!!! Eventually i'm sure.  I just wish to deal with problems as they arise, so as not to be in a situation at a later date i regret, hopefully now i wont be.  Once again i will try my best, Heidi will ignore me!!! LOL.

Thank you for all the sarcasm, its glad to know i am not alone!! ha ha

> I am not an irresponsible dog owner, just a panic stricken one (Joke). 

LOL
I've had one very memerable moment where I completey regretted getting my pup. He had a new found confidence and was really pushing his luck with play-biting at about 7 months old He had knocked me to the floor and I couldn't do a thing, I was getting nibbled to peices and pranced on by a whopping, unruly 'Jaws on 4 legs'. Panick set in and then something inside me clicked. From then on I took 'patience' to a whole new level and amazingly the more calm & patient I was, the better I could teach pup what the rules were, on the odd occasion when that failed and I could feel myself getting frustrated/angry/panicking, I would give ME a 'time-out', to collect my thoughts and calm down :)
So there's another tip, if you feel yourslef getting wound up by pup, pop her somewhere safe (ie, the kitchen/crate or where ever you use as the safe puppy-proof area) you can use a lead to move her so there's no need to pick her up or grab her collar (collar-grabbing can be a great fun game of bitey-bitey for some pups) and take a few minutes out for yourself to remember that she's just a pup, she doesn't know how you expect her to behave and sometimes, as youngsters of all species do, she just can't help herself as she hasn't learnt self-controll and the 'right' way to communicate with you yet :)