I know this is a long shot, but I am hoping that somebody out there will be able to advise or at least give an idea, regarding what happened to us today.

We had 2 Gerbils, when we bought them we were told that they were both Male. it turned out that one was female and because they came from the same litter, once we established their sex, we put them in separate cages.

Last week the Male had diarrhoea which was very unusual so we gave him charcoal powder on the Vets advice. Our female was absolutely fine, lively, eating her food, drinking and behaving in her usual gorgeous manner. After the charcoal powder so was the Male.  Their cages were both in my Daughters room but at opposite ends of a largish room.

Today, as is normal, every Sunday we clean them out. Betty the Female was cleaned out first and was behaving normally. We put her in a Gerbil ball to run around in whilst being cleaned out. My Daughter called me to tell me that she was concerned about Betty's behaviour. She was spinning around in her ball quite violently. When I looked she was just going round in circles and then collapsing on her side with her eyes half open. We called OH who monitered her whilst phoning the Vet. The Vet said that we could take her down there but from the sound of her symptoms she could die on the journey so to keep her warm and quite for the time being. I then checked on Benny, the Male and he was already dead in his cage, tucked up in his bed. :-( :-(

Betty carried on 'fitting' going round and round in circles until eventually she lay on her side and died :-(

The Vet has said that we could get a PM done on them but in her opinion it's not worth it as it's not always conclusive and because we don't have other Gerbils it's not essential.  I have been searching on the web all afternoon and have come up with a couple of possible reasons. It could be Tyzzers disease that is an intestinal infection or it could be E Colie or Salmonella. The last two are caught from unwashed fruit and Veg. Any fruit and veg we gave was always washed and Tyzzers disease is normally caught from wild mice/rats but apparently animals that are on a high protein diet, such as Gerbs, are predisposed to it.

All I can think of is that the Male had it first and then we must have passed it onto Betty through handling :-(

They were only 18 months old and the fact that they died from an infection rather than 'old age' greatly upsets me. Yet again, tears are welling up just typing this.

I will be on to my Vet first thing in the morning asking questions as I also have a Chinchilla. Albeit the Vet said on the phone today that it was highly unlikely that he would be contaminated as Gerbs and Chins don't normally pass infection because of the difference in their DNA.

OH buried them in the garden, crying his eyes out :-( He said that he felt stupid but bless him, it must have been so hard, he had to do it because I couldn't. It's stupid really, you take small animals into your family but never consider the downside and we have both been quite surprised at the depth of our feelings over losing our small furry 'babies'. We have put in a cross to mark their grave and everytime we look at it we both well up.l

Has anybody else had experience of this or can advise as I won't rest until I know or at least have an idea.

Jo

I have no idea but i feel your pain. Ive had rats for many years and my last 2 girls died one before xmas and one after. I hated it as i tried so hard to keep them alive, syringe feeding even had one girl in my bed to keep her warm! They were not old and they just seemed to get weak skinny then die. I had no idea why and i cried alot like you and they are burried in my garden under the holly tree. I was cleaning the cage out giving it a hose in the shower when in one of the opaque tubes was a clump of sticky food that had gone mouldy i hadnt noticed it before obviously as i normally just empty the tray. I liked to treat them and i think it just fell down and got stuck. So too late i realised that it must have been the mould killing them. I know it wont be what your two died of it sounds more neurological. Perhaps thier diet? I suggest you do a good thing for both you and your girl when you have finished greiveing and go to pets at home adoption bit. I recently got a degu gandalf but i call him goo goo his owners couldnt keep him anymore due to landlord and my rabbit is from that bit too, well so were most of my small furries really. I like to give them a second chance. Dont blame yourself, with them being related it could be a genetic thing.

Louise

I had a friend with a rat that had an infestation of fleas although she wasn't aware of it and he ended up fitting a lot and eventually died exhibiting similar behaviour to that you mentioned.  It was when we were teens so the memories are quite hazy but it sounds similar.

Thank you Louise

I instantly thought, like you, that with them being related it could be something genetic but I am still dumbfounded that they both died literally within the hour of each other. This is why I just know it was a viral/contagious ailment. The only really (would desperately like to insert swear word but won't) stupid thing about it all is, what's the odds of this happening???? To lose 2 like this isn't bad luck, it's stupidity! Their diet was fine according to the Vet that we spoke to last week. But again...I'm now wondering about all of it. And the fact that they were as bright and lively as normal right up until this lunchtime doesn't help as it all happened soooo quickly :-( :-( :-(

I'm so sorry about your rats, and yes, you and I both know how attached we can get to them. I've just been in to say goodnight to my daughter and her room looks empty and so so quite. No manic running about in their wheels and no Gerbils coming up to the front of their cages to say goodnight :-(

My daughter was looking at Degus last week in PAH ( not in the adoption bit) there weren't any. I feel at the moment no more, I couldn't go through today again for a while - wuss that I am - I keep looking outside my kitchen window and seeing the little cross and thinking that they just shouldn't be in the cold ground, they should be in their cages running around as they were our 'babies' :-(

Just a thought but could you have a boiler leak or anything of that nature?  Small animals and birds are very sensitive to carbon monocide, infact they were often used as detectors.  Do you have a detector?

Thank you for that thought Isabel as in the immediate aftermath, those kind of thoughts went through my mind.

Our boiler for our oil fired central heating is in the kitchen and my Daughters bedroom is at the other end of the bungalow. Yes we do have CM detectors, the type that change colour when they detect it. My Chin, touch wood seems to be OK at the moment and he is far closer to the kitchen than our Gerbils were.

I am still under the impression that it was something that caused an intestinal infection, even though our little girl didn't show any outward symptoms, it, whatever it was, was obviously highly contagious.

Just as a side degus life expectancy is 10 years, so if you stick to there rather strict diets your daughters could be taking care of these furries into their teens. I buy recommened excel guinea pig food for him and dont treat them with tit bits like i did my rats as they are naturally diabetic and it can cause cateracts. Search for degutopia a comprehensive list of everything you need to know and a little bit extra about them. I burry my girlies with a little note for them to 'read' in the afterlife and before we fenced off the lawn for the dogs i didnt want to bury my boys in it just incase they dug them up, so i first met my boyfriends family crying my eyes out in my jarmies and burying him in thier garden where they did there cat. Couldnt watch ratatouille for a while after that it was a bad weekend Rico went on sat and Milo had to be PTS on the monday from an extremely malignant tumour. I vowed after my last lot went i wouldnt get anymore as they dont last long enough and i cant stand the heartache but i still like to look at them in PAH and think hmmm that spare cage i have left.....

Louise

hi

your experience sounds awfull, poor gerbils. As I was reading i was thinking some kind of poisoning. Did you change anything at all when you were cleaning out. Shavings, disinfectant. Spray the room with air freshner anything at all.

Hope you can sort it as i know its just as bad not knowing :o(

So sorry about your gerbils{{{hugs}}} Having rats I know just how much they worm their way into your heart :-(

You might try posting on this site
http://www.fancy-rats.co.uk/home/ It is a rat site but lots of members have other small furries and I've always got great advice when I ask questions.

We had to have a hamster put down once because we could not do it ourselves, its ok to have a tear or two no one in their right mind likes to see any animal distressed. I hope you get an answer have you tried goggling a question?

Where did you get your sawdust? just a thought?

Other thoughts : furniture polish? air freshener? hairspray?  - was wondering if you could think of any products that may have been used that could possibly have affected them. Some household sprays have such a very fine mist I would have thought they could spread a fair distance, especially if there was a draught or maybe a hairdryer in use whilst spraying.

It doesn't matter how big or small a pet is they are all sadly missed when they have gone, and even more so when they are taken before their time :-(

Bless them poor little things.
Maybe it could be something as simple as a change in the water in your area ?. Who knows what goes into it and at times it changes without us knowing.

goggling??;-)

Thank you everyone for your words of comfort and advice :-)

I had a long conversation with the head Nurse at my Vet practice first thing Monday morning. She has kept and bred Gerbils for years and she is as in the dark as we are. She thinks that it was just a horrible coincidence. But although I respect her experience and medical background I am still convinced that something has poisoned them.

I have been googling for hours every day and also visited some Gerbil forums. People on there are as stumped as I am and typically but thankfully nobody has had this happen to them so can't advise.

BUT.....this morning I was clearing up my Lily pollen - I always have Lillies in the house since my Mum died as it they were her favourite flowers and, taking into account of the fact that the pollen is highly toxic to cats I'm wondering if the same applies to Gerbils. The reason I say this is because on Saturday for the first time ever, Jena, my daughter put some more water in the vase, because she wanted to help and got it all over her hands and sleeves. I told her to wash because of staining but if she did, perhaps not as thoroughly as she could have done. She was always handling the Gerbs so I am now going to google and also ask my Vet about it who is coming to the house this afternoon to see one of the hairies.

Other than that, absolutely nothing in their diet or bedding/environment changed. They were always given mineral water from the day we had them as I don't trust the water supply and I do the same with my Chinchilla.

Thanks again everyone,

Jo

Jo, I really hope you can find a way to get over this...even if you don't ever find a reason...sometimes we wringe ourselves out trying to find out why and get distressed if we can't find out why! I'm just saying, please don't let it ruin your life at the moment...take care, Dawn x

Hi Louise,

I know what you mean, I was in PAH yesterday looking at the small furries. They had Degus in there so I probably wasted an hour just watching them. Yes, the good thing is that their life expectancy is much longer than Gerbs but I still felt the 'ahh' factor when I looked at a small pile of baby gerbils all asleep together. But it's far too early, if ever.

I will search the Degutopia when I get a minute, thank you. Daughter is very keen.

I know what you mean about spare cages, except I have 2 very large ones! just think how many small furry creatures I get into them if I didn't possess such strong willpower :-P

I think the motto for my household is when visiting pet shops, you can look but you can't have. I only have to think of last Sunday to stop myself. It's just so quite and empty here though.......even with the Chin and dogs.

So sorry to hear about your gerbils HP. Its so very hard to deal especially when you have no idea what has caused their death and to see the girl behave in this way and then pass in front of you, i can't even imagine.

I don't know much about gerbils, used to have hamsters many moons ago, though i know nothing of any diseases that they can contract. Both my hamsters lived for 2yrs which is the average life expectancy.

Its not stupid to cry over a pet passing away, i myself cry at things like this, even on TV. Please take comfort in knowing that there was nothing you could of done(from reading your posts). RIP little gerbils..xxx

{{{{big hugs}}}}}