to cut a long story short...my bitch was accidently covered by my male- 7weeks ago she was given mis-mate injection but has since been going through a phantom...she was scanned at 5weeks and confirmed NOT in whelp.
She injured her foot today so i took her back to the same vet who was suprised to see the weigh she had gained-so said 'lets whip her in for a quick scan just to be sure'- well i was gobsmacked as vet had said at first scan she wasnt in whelp- so anyway she had her scan today and vet said couldnt determine whether she is or isnt as she is too far gone!!? can someone please advise me on, first of all whether it sounds like she could be in whelp going by these things........
Been slowly gaining weight, and now seems to be gaining a lot in he belly area- seems a bit hard- but not overly?
Her vulva has remained swollen sice last season
she is a lot more sensitive in herself and very clingy
went through a stage of being sick 5/6 weeks after mating
Is passing a HUGE amount of wind(lol dont know whether that hs anything to do with it!!)
and has an appetite that i am unable to satisfy!!

also- should i treat her like she is? or just normally? is there any other tell tale signs for pregnancy?
Iknow i could of had he x-rayed but it would mean a GA and didnt want to put her through it.
any advice greatly appreciated

At 7 weeks you should be able to feel the movement of pups especially when the bitch is sleeping and/or very relaxed. Soft fluttering at first working up to full blown kicks at full term.
A stethescope would also help if you could detect heartbeats ( very feint and very fast).
In the USA it's pretty standard practice to x-ray for pregnancy detection but I agree - you will know for sure in 2 weeks and I would treat her as in whelp  just in case.

Since it looks like she is in whelp..all you can do now is be prepared.

sorry-this is going to sound like a stupid question- but what kind of movement should i feel for? she is flat out asleep on setee next to me as i write this so perfect oportunity- i put my hand flat on underside/side of her belly and feel a lot of gurgling(digestive tract i suppose) and then the odd little sort of thud but not like a kick-hard to describe really.......
ETA. she is large(ish) breed does this make a difference?

Gently place the palm of your hand on the side of her belly, behind the ribs and wait till she relaxes again.The canine uterus is in the form of two parallel horns, lying near her flanks by this stage ( if in whelp).Small movements like something is turning over or fluttering can be felt but in a small litter you have to be lucky to catch them or rather patient. In a large litter it can look like a boxing match in a sack.
In a few days you may actually be able to see these movements.

Hi,
It sounds like she is, be all ready just in case. I could not see any movement in my bitches first litter, if there tummy muscles  are tight, or there is a small litter or only one puppy. Are her teats swollen? can you squeeze any milk out, may be a little early with a first litter.
I would feed her as if she was, just in case. Better be safe than sorry.

Denese     

hmmm- not so sure- i could feel a lot of grumbling type and then a few 'different' feelings but really hard to describe them-she did a lot of farts while i was doing it!!
also she hasnt got a massive belly as such- but it has more sort of thickened- if that makes sense-so she is getting a waist but it doesnt look or feel flabby.
oh and ive checked my calendar and realised that she wont be 7weeks until wednesday(as you can imagine i wasnt avidly calendar watching as i didnt think she was in whelp)

she has had a small amount of milk since 'week 3' - but she did this last year in her phantom.

how much should i feed her? she weighed 25kg before she started gaining weight- but she was on slim side(as i work her)

As Denise said, treat her as though she is pregnant by increasing her food by up to one third, including good protein like red meat or chicken.
If she is not acustomed to this type of food go very gently with any changes.
No pills and potions are needed for a healthy bitch, fed on a good diet.

The movements you may feel by week 7-8 will be quite different from gut movements and wind.
More like an alien trying to get out.

thankyou for your advise, i will keep you posted

hi qwerty , its a good job you went to your vets :) ...my girl is 6+ weeks , she as a fat belly and her nipples are getting large and changeing in color she is large breed  and was scanned at 5weeks confurming 4 but maybe more ...what is she like in her self ? ...my girl is so clingy at the moment too .

Hope it all goes well, just wanted to say our bitch (who weighed about the same as yours pre pregnancy) never had any movement that I could detect in her belly and she went on to have 12 live and healthy puppies! I have just looked at some photos of her at around 6 weeks and there isn't much to see at all apart from her nipples were a bit fuller.
Really just to say you can't always feel any movement, good luck with her.

There a lots of people with far more experience than me on this board but I would very surprised if she produces any pups. Having said that I would suggest following the advice given, treat her as in whelp just to be safe! :-) Let us know what happens and for the record I like my humble pie warm with custard!

> I like my humble pie warm with custard!

lol

id just like to add three weeks ago my bitch had pups, and i was desperate to feel pups but couldnt feel anything right til the end,so i 2nd what jeff has said just so you know its more commen not to be able to feel anything.she may have a small litter in there.one even maybe in which case i doubt you'd feel anything anyway(but again im no where near as experienced in this field as others on here will be)
personally i would treat her as she is expecting and like some have said its better to be safe than sorry.
i also last year was told two weeks to the day that my bitch was not in whelp and she is a large breed and gave birth to 8 healthy puppies two weeks after being told by one vet and confirmed by another (her head vet)she wasnt in whelp.
so expect the unexpected and get someone to help you too.prepare for puppies and if they dont arrive then you could sell on anything you bought.someone will always want it.
if it were me id not work her so much either.light exersize.xxx

> what jeff has said just so you know its more commen not to be able to feel anything

Tamara,
for others who may read this thread, Jeff did not actally say that
.....and it is rather uncommon not to feel puppy movement in the last couple of weeks....if you know what you are looking for.
In this possible scenario where the OP has most likely created a litter of GSDs, a small litter is not very likely but even with my Cavaliers I have never not been able to find movement even in litters of 2. I most certainly have been able to hear feotal heartbeats with every single one of my litters over the last 3 decades.

Just wanted to say that in my experience of breeding, the passing of wind is a classic sign of being in whelp lol.
Personally I have never bothered with scans as results can be so hit and miss depending on the ability of the scanner and also due to the possibility of reabsorption.
As others have said best to treat your girl as if she is in whelp just to be on the safe side.
Edited to say that I have heard of bitches going on to have very small litters after the mismate injection so maybe this is why you are feeling no movement.

I have to back up tooolz here, I find it very strange that the vet at almost 7 weeks can find no indication of pups, for a vet not to hear heartbeat or spot anything from palpatation seems strange to me.  The mismate is usually 100%  given during the estrus cycle, if given proestrus it is less effective but then so is the possibility of pups? Could the dog have got to her again?

Maiden bitches can be full of surprises saying that, can the bitch be taken for a second opinion to another vets for a scan and to be palped again.

I think I would go to another vets if you can, if they say the same then yes prepare for a litter just incase, but after mismate and no clarification of pups other than outwardly physical I feel it unlikely, however, I've often had to eat my words so won't stand by them. :-D

When my girl had puppies recently i didnt feel any kicking until the day she was confirmed, probably a week and a half before she had them. We didnt think she was pregnant and was told it was probably a phantom but we did feel her tummy alot and couldnt really feel anything then we went to the vet and had a blood test done and on the was home after the blood test confirmed she was pregnant i felt a puppy kick for the first time. We both joked about how her secret was out of the bag so she was letting them kick. They really started kicking after that and once you feel them kicking there is no mistaking it for a gurgling tummy! In the last week you could even see them moving and turning around. She was a small breed and had 6 though so maybe on a larger breed it will be harder to see than with a small litter. Cant the vet do a blood test to confirm for your girl? I think my vet said the farther on they are the clearer the results are so a blood test at this stage might be accurate?

Hi, I have been racking my brains trying to think of any possibility there was of her being covered again-and well, there isnt, they were in no way left alone together, they even went out for wees seperatly- i was devastated that i let it happen once so i was even more careful after that. I am in two minds as to whther to take her to another vets for a scan- she gets very stressed-not so much at going to the vets- but the actual scan itself-well she hates it being done and is quite adamnet she doesnt like anything strange on her belly!

Id just like to add that, although this was not a planned mating, both the dog and bitch are health tested with good results- not that im saying this makes it ok-nothing can make me feel worse than i already do at putting my bitch through this.

Is it easy to listen for heartbeats with a stethoscope?

Whereabouts are you qwerty? Maybe someone can recommend a sheep scanner to you? They are normally far more effective at pregnancy diagnosis and also at scanning a bitch without any distress. If I've ever taken a bitch to the vet for a scan, they want them lying on their back, prefer to shave etc. The sheep scanner I use has done the scan before the bitch even notices.

M.

I would agree wholeheartedly with that!

hi- im in south staffordshire- dont really know of anyone to even ask if they know anybody able to scan

well- a friend of mine is finding out the number of the person he used to have his dog scanned- apparently they did it while his dog was standing and was really good with his bitch aswell-my friend lives an hour and half away from me but think it will be worth getting it done-the guy who scans usually does sheep so fingures crossed i will know for sure in the next few days

my vet scans while they are stood and never shave.

Linda

My vet also does my bitch whilst standing and has only once shaved, it has been a quick couple of minutes with no distress whatsoever to my bitch, to be honest you only wish to know whether your bitch is or isn't carrying whelps so he just needs to pick up on one pup with the scan or his stethoscope.

However, glad that you have found a sheep scanner, definitely will be worth the journey for you to find out for sure, it's stressful enough for those of us who know for definite waiting for the delivery, it would be so much worse not knowing how long and when you can finally relax.

Good luck and let us know, sheep scanners are much more acurate aswell, general scans I just double the amount. :-D

well i have been unable to get her scanned as the person i was planning on using has had the scanner nicked!!
I think i am just going to wait and see what happens- if she is in whelp she is 7 weeks now- she doesnt seem to be getting any bigger-is it usually fairly obvious that a bitch is in whelp in the 7th week? she doesn seem to be big enough if she is pregnant? instinct is telling me she is but i really dont know...my head tells me its a phantom(which i do hope it is)she has gone off her food-wanted absolutely nothing to do with it and has not really left her bed- dont know whether that is normal? i have increased her food so i thought maybe its just that she is simply not hungry

Usually qwerty you can tell at 7 weeks that a bitch is in whelp, though some wait until the last couple of weeks to really fill out with pups bulging from either side, however just as in people some are bigger than others, sometimes pups can be hidden behind ribs.  She is giving all the classic signs of pregnancy, though a phantom shows the same signs also.

What a shame about the sheep scanner being taken, have you also checked your other local vets to see if any can give your girl a scan or blood test?  I don't blame you not wanting an xray. I would take your girl to either yours or another vets at 8 weeks someone must be able to tell you whether she is in whelp or not it's ridiculous that you have had no confirmation either way.

The mismate should have terminated any chance of pregnancy, if she isn't in whelp and you have increased her food that is probably why she is not eating, but to be honest I wouldn't wish to overfeed my girl if she were not in whelp, I personally would have her to one or another vet for another look.

I feel so sorry for you, you need an answer one way or the other.

I know you can visit Keith Shea if it is too far for him to travel to you give them a ring .(he is in the Preston area)
01772 690014
Mobile: 07973 415088

thanks-preston is a long way from me-3hrs i think. i will give another vets a ring in the morning and let yo know

im just glad i had decided a long while ago that she wasnt going to crufts (even though she qualified) i would of been gutted if we had planned to go and couldnt!