hi im asking this question on behalf of a friend of a friend. she was going to buy a pedigree puppy that is now 8 weeks the owner of the puppy took him for his 1st innoculations today and he found out that he has got a heart murmer (sorry ive spelt that wrong) the vet has advice the owner of the puppy not to sell him for 4 weeks which the owner has agreed to do. has anyone had this problem before and do they normally clear up?
the vet said it should do in 4-5 weeks time which is when he must go back to the vets any information would be great so i can pass it on the breed is a medium breed

Many pups have a heart murmur which clear up and is no problem at all.  A heart murmur is a term for any noise that is not a 'normal regular beat', rather than anything specific.  A specialist opinion is needed for an accurate diagnosis if anything is wrong.  Unless it's a breed that has hereditary heart problems, I'll be surprised if it causes a problem. 
It could be just an over enthustic Vet.  I once had a Vet tell a new owner that if their 8 week old puppy didn't immediately have £1500 open heart surgery (it was many years ago!), then he wouldn't see his first birthday!  When my Vet saw him he said it was a 'normal' puppy heart murmur.  The last time I heard from the owners, the dog was 12 years old, had lived a full and active life both here and in Spain, done 6 months quarantine and had never seen a Vet apart from vaccinations in his life!

ok thankyou for your reply, the puppy is fine in himself its just worrying for owners and new owners

Of course.  Unfortunately, not all Vets know what they're talking about! :)

I have all my pups eye tested before they leave me to avoid ignorant Vets worrying my new owners.  I have had one actually tell the new owners that their pup will go blind, when he had a certificate from an Opthalmologist saying that he will have no problem with his sight!

If they would really like the pup now, which would be better for settling and socialising, then maybe suggest that they have a second opinion with a Vet from a different practice?

thanks for your reply westcoast ive just heard that the vet they go too is the same as the one i use and i dont think much of him i will definately mention to get a 2nd look

A Vets View in Dog World covered exactly this last month!

I had a rummage and here it is on the DW website :)

Hi donna08, There are different types of heart murmur, some are serious some are not. The problem your friend may have is defining which one the puppy may have. My Border Terrier had to have heart surgery with a heart surgeon in Kenilworth near Leamington Spa - the operation itself cost over £2000.00 nine years ago - luckily she was insured. The murmur was picked up on her second vaccination and the vet said that she wouldnt make her 1st birthday.  I didnt believe him, she looked fine to me, so i foolishly left it for a while and she started to go downhill rapidly. She started to be tired all the time, went off her food and had no interest in anything. Luckily she was still able to have her operation which didnt totally correct the murmur, just made it better.  She still has a murmur now, won't live a full life and can't go for long walks but shes not doing bad as shes nine now. I definately would'nt have bought her if i'd had known about the murmur and would'nt advice anyone to buy a puppy with one unless they're prepared (financially and emotionally!). Neither would i sell a puppy if knew it had a murmur.

But some murmers are totally benign! That's why a second opinion or expert opinion is invauable...Storm has a Grade 1 aortic stenosis...doesn't affect her, she does 4 miles a day at a brisk walk, never breathless, never any symptoms...but I would never breed from her...she can't breed now anyways!

On the other hand Newfies do get DCM, a very serious and life threatening condition that can develop ANYTIME which is why all should be screened yearly for any changes, before breeding!

I think it would be very unwise to make a decision before seeking expert help...Liverpool have an excellent Cardiologist, I believe Birmingham do too...also Glasgow

The problem is Tracey that some Vets can get it wrong. I sold a pup a few years ago to a lady whose first dog had been diagnosed with a heart murmur at her first vaccination. The Vet told her to take her back to the breeder as the pup would be dead by 10 months of age. She let the breeder know but told the breeder that she wouldn't part with the pup and that if all it had was 10 months then she would have a wonderful 10 months. The dog died of cancer at 11 years old. Some Vets cannot pick up a flow murmur that can be grown out of.

Actually, I just remembered...Derek's ex bought a pup from my friend...took him for his first jabs and the Vet told them he had a heart issue! Yorkies don't tend to have heart problems, so they took him to his girlfriends Vet, guess wot? NOWT wrong with him!

Whilst i realise that some vets get it wrong - what i'm saying is mine didnt. He knew it would need specialist treatment and referred my dog to a cardiologist in Kenilworth, Leamington Spa. And, like i said previously, some murmurs are different than others i.e. some worse than others. How can the new owner possibly be sure how bad or what type of murmur it is, unless she gets expert opinion with all the relevant tests. All of which could seem quite daunting to a new owner and something i personally wouldnt want to take on having been through it myself. By the way my dog has pulmonary valve stenosis.

But that is what I am trying to say Tracey, luckily you have a good Vet who knows what he is looking at. Some Vets don't and can really scare their clients. I know of someone else who was told to take the puppy back to the breeder. Two other Vets have cleared the puppy as having nothing wrong with it. Sadly your Border wasn't one of the lucky ones with only a flow murmur.

They really can't win can they?  If they say it is nothing and let the puppy go to its new home they are at risk of causing future distress and/or expense to that family when it does turn out to be something more serious and if they suggest it needs further investigation in a few weeks time in order to be more certain in excluding the normal patterns of development they risk the ire of breeders who say this will certainly be a normal development and the puppy possibly risks losing out on early socialisation in its new home.
Who would be a vet?

But there are Vets, and there are Vets. I know they all go through the same training but still there are some better than others. We have two Vets in our practice who I would trust with my life let alone my dogs lives. However, some of the others I have had an appointment with, was not happy with their diagnosis and ended up returning to another appointment with one of the two I mentioned. We wait for absolutely ages  in the waiting room for these two Vets while the others just take an odd person into the consult room, so obviously other people are of the same opinion as me. I have waited over an hour before for one of them. These two Vets in my opinion are worth their weight in gold.

> But there are Vets, and there are Vets.

Indeed, but no matter how good a vet some diagnoses require the need to watch and wait.

some diagnoses require the need to watch and wait.

And a good Vet knows which is which.  Unfortunately many don't and just scare new owners. :)

> Unfortunately many don't and just scare new owners. :-)

You see, they cannot win :-D

One person's full information is another person's scaremongering, I'm afraid.

They need to know the difference between a simple grade 1 'normal' puppy 'needs time to settle' murmur and the noises made my serious defects.  My Vet in Berkshire, although not a specialist, always knew the difference, but not all do.

> They need to know the difference between a simple grade 1 'normal' puppy 'needs time to settle' murmur and the noises made my serious defects.

If you read the link Silver has posted you will see there is also a group in the middle that require observation to determine if they will settle before anything can be concluded. 

Absolutely and a good Vet will recognise those too.

Exactly he recognised it.  That is when they fall into this no win situation.  Do they advise a waiting period or not when most will turn out to be developmental or do they deal with the far less common but potentially very distressing possibility of an ongoing condition?