Hi There,

We recently allowed our Dog to service a bitch owned by our neighbours. He serviced her 3 times and she is now in the last weeks of pregnancy. We were never paid a stud fee for our dogs services and now our neighbours have said that a standard contract is pick of the litter of puppies. Is this a normal contract? I feel as though we have been stiched up to be honest as we have put in a lot of care for the bitch as well she regularly stays with us and I have advised them on helping her with Whelping and care of the puppies to be coldly shut out like this feels a bit wrong from a neighbour. I know of good homes for these pups. my biggest worry is that they will be sold by our neighbours to homes that will use them for fighting or be cruel to them as the poor bitch was beaten by her last owners and the neighbours have lost several previous dogs due to not keeping an eye on them properly I would hate to see these puppies have anything happen to them. Please help I dont know what to do.

There is no 'standard contract' when it comes to using a dog at stud; both parties usually terms agree in advance. If a stud fee isn't paid then the pick ofthe litter or the price of a puppy would usually be deemed fair.

The stud owner has no legal control over the sale of the rest of the litter, but by all means recommend these good homes you have lined up to your neighbour.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but, unless information has been left out of your post, I am at a loss to know why you would allow your dog to be used on a bitch owned by people you have such strong reservations about. If you had any doubts at all about the future of the pups why did you go ahead with the mating?

You find yourself in a cart before the horse situation unfortunately.  You cannot undo what is done but take your puppy and at the very least you can rehome this, infact unless there has been full breed testing done I would take a stud fee as you would be legally responsible for the puppy you sold on under The Sale of Goods Act.    Has parents had relevant testing. 

I am not sure why you think you have been hard done, A nominal stud fee and at the best a puppy is all a stud dog own normally receives.  I think you should take it as a lesson learned.  Either take a pup or the fee.

Hope your dog doesn't change now he has been used at stud this is often what the pet owner fails to realise till afterwards.

The thing with reservations now is they must have been there before you let them use your dog. 

hi ...ok im not a nasty person :) so plz dont take me the wrong way ...BUT you know your neighbours well if youve been having her dog to stay ,YOU also know about her other dogs that she asnt looked after well...SO why let her use your dog for stud ????? ,if you where worried about these pups you wouldnt have let your dog mate with her !!!

and yes a pup or stud fee ,if you wanted the money you should of got it at time of mating .

Thanks for comments received will take it as a lesson learned did not mean to offend anyone!

I'm afraid I'm with the others...why on earth would you let your dog near a bitch that is owned by very dubious neighbours? :-(  In my heart, due to the fact that no health tests have been undertaken, I hope the Bitch is having a Phantom! And that is about the nicest thing I could wish! If you really know the dreadful things these neighbours get upto i.e dog fighting(or knowledge of this) or the apparent cruelty issues I would suggest you get in touch with the Police and the RSPCA! What on earth were you thinking? (or not!)

Not worried about the neighbours im worried about the homes for the the puppies want them to go to good caring homes is all sorry if I was not clear before

Katwoman i dont think you have offended anyone ....but when we read this ,it is heart breaking to think more pups born ,more bad homes from what youve said ....its so sad :(

Sorry then, it wasn't clear...hopefully a lesson is learnt all around...

If you didn't trust your neighbours to sell the pups to good homes, why on earth did you allow the mating to take place?

I'm not so much offended just upset and puzzled.  Why did you do it?!!!!! 
Please tell us you will never allow him to be used again unless, of course, he is of remarkable show winning achievements and has all the relevent health screening satisfactorily completed and even then only to similarly qualified bitches belonging to truly responsible owners.

He is a beautiful well manered dog so good with kids and so friendly. I was not aware of the mating until afterwards my partner and neighbour had done the deed by the time I got home from work.

on all 3 matings ?

> He is a beautiful well manered dog so good with kids and so friendly

and has he been tested for PHPV/HC and L2-HGA?

> I was not aware of the mating until afterwards my partner and neighbour had done the deed by the time I got home from work.

Please don't take us for fools.

Call me a nasty old cynic but .....why are you asking these questions now?   Should not you - or your partner or the owner of the poor bitch have looked into this more deeply BEFORE the matings??????

You, your partner and your neighbour have been completely irresponsible, imo.

Talk about back yard breeders - or should I say back garden breeders!

> I'm afraid I'm with the others...why on earth would you let your dog near a bitch that is owned by very dubious neighbours?

> What on earth were you thinking? (or not!)

Sorry to say I'm with the majority, but I do get the impression that you're not an experienced dog breeder.  It may well be that you hadn't any idea of the complexities of health testing etc.  Or about the overwhelming numbers of this breed in rescue.

I think it sounds (forgive me for assuming), that you are guilty more of ignorance than anything.  Please don't take that as an insult.  If you acept a pup, at least you will be in a position to vet people thoroughly and ensure the very best forever home.  :-)

> as the poor bitch was beaten by her last owners

She's a previously abused rescue dog? This is exactly why rescues are so hot on spay/neuter before rehoming,it prevents further exploitation like this.

This is just a general reminder, not aimed at anyone in particular. Posts which just attack the poster or make snide comments about wind ups are not helpful or constructive and could put off someone who is inexperienced and genuinely looking for advice on this board. It is possible to point out where a poster has gone wrong in a polite way (as some members have done here) but if you can't do that, then just leave the thread alone or perhaps remember the old adage that you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar ;-)

welcome to the board katwoman - sorry you're having a bit of a nightmare. take the puppy and put it down to experience :)

You did say the bitch had been mated 3 times in all...you also said WE not I or HIM....????? Hmmmmmm...:-(

deed is now done so whats the point in going over old ground.

I personally think the stud dog owner has as much say in where the puppies end up as the owner of the bitch (in my breed both parties help each other in finding new homes) so why not help the neighbour and pass on details of the litter to genuine people who will take care of the puppies,if you are used to helping with the bitch they shouldnt see this as interfeering.
I would ask for a pup and if you cant keep it find a good home yourself.

(in my breed both parties help each other in finding new homes)............

yes our stud dog owner does also ......

i do hope they will let you help out in finding good homes , fingers crossed ...

Please someone correct me if I am wrong but I had thought that the owner of the stud dog was just as much responsible for any of offspring as the bitches owner, throughout the pups life.

Are the dogs KC registered?

Yes the stud dog owner is responsible moraly but there is no written rule.

Perhaps morally but not legally UNLESS of course the person allowed a dog to be used at stud knowing full well it had serious genetic health issues and a puppy from him had  health implications as a result.  The puppy owner would not seek or claim from the stud dog owner but the breeder and then the breeder would have to seek remedy from the stud dog owner.   All tricky but true.

I hear what you are saying blue but if the mating takes place without the owners consent.....   Well I for one would not be issuing the relevant documentation to register the litter.  The bitch owner would have to prove that the dog they used was the sire and would have to convince the stud owner to give the documentation. 

I am not completely sure what the situation is here with this post it it contradictory on one hand the bitch is mated three times but it would seem without the owners consent and with a bitch who may be should not have been bred from.  It's all a bit complicated.

If there are puppies hopefuly they will be placed with care.  If the stud owner takes responsibilty and issues the documentation then perhaps the bitch owner will let them help but it is in the lap of the gods now.

Good grief, I don't own a stud dog myself but hypothetically speaking, if my husband allowed a dog of mine to be mated to the neighbours bitch three times behind my back, to say I'd be fuming would be an understatement.
I would certainly be taking a pup and finding the best home possible for it.

Grounds for divorce for me! :)

>Well I for one would not be issuing the relevant documentation to register the litter. 

We don't even know if the dog and bitch are themselves registered, do we? Or have I missed that part?

Re-reading the original post I'm not sure what the poster was expecting? Half-shares in the entire litter?

I'd be castrating something...... and it wouldn't be the dog

> Re-reading the original post I'm not sure what the poster was expecting? Half-shares in the entire litter?

Yes, I rather wondered that too ...

M.