I've noticed the forum and its regular contributors, many long standing and some less so but equally valuable contributors, are often criticised by new or passing through members for giving nothing other than sound, honest, open advice.

There are a great many examples to be found across most boards and although many of us have been there, done that and got the full metal jacket before I was hopeful those days were gone (being largely the result of trolls and WUMs)

I often wonder why some of those most experienced in important issues such as breeding and behaviour manage to continue to help, advise, encourage and sometimes inspire despite the many knocks given out which are by no means balanced by the much rarer expressions of appreciation for their patience and efforts.

One such thread at the moment (perhaps more than one) I personally feel to be a disgrace not only from comments by a relatively recent and casual contributor but also a new member OP who appears to have delusions of  adequacy on the communications front as much with the object of their problems as with some of those who have tried to assist

I regularly comes across a multitude of pearls of wisdom across the various boards and am grateful to all those who try and stay reasonable and helpful regardless of how well or not their contributions are received.  Personal insults and snide remarks, often coupled with unacceptable language, seem to be cropping up ever more regularly again - I certainly hope it stops soon

Teri

Owwwwww.....

I thought this was going to be about 'Take That' on your bedroom wall Teri ;)

Very interesting post Teri,

I must admit it has taken me quite a long time to deal with the fact that even with my 30 years of experience of breeding pedigree dogs (of more than one breed), the fact that I have always been considered many peoples mentor and first port of call when advice is needed.....still puts me on an even footing in cyberland with any Tom, Dick or " Oh look it's even more puppies...how did that happen" Harry.

It has been vindication of something I have long observed....most people only ask for advice to see if it agrees with there own opinion, then dismisses it if it doesn't.

Another thing I've found odd is this 'Breeding by committee' syndrome - where everything which would normally have been researched in advance by a new breeder, by reading and by being mentored seems to be missing. Every single thing is asked after the litter is concieved...surely a little too late.
For the life of me I cannot imagine mating a bitch and then start asking questions on how to rear the puppies.....cart and horse come to mind. But then again they seem to know that someone will bale them out.

Now look ...you've started me off.......

> most people only ask for advice to see if it agrees with there own opinion, then dismisses it if it doesn't

Very true - and it seems ever more commonly in high handed or downright rude terms :( 

> Now look ...you've started me off......

LOL - contagious complaining :-D

Funnily enough I notice plenty of people asking for advice, receiving it and then saying thankyou, they are so glad they found this useful forum. I think rude people are in the minority but of course you get a few just as anywhere in life. It may well be the case that sometimes people only want to hear a particular answer but I don't think 'most people' do this. (I do think advice is occasionally given in somewhat rude terms too, but again this is the minority!)
And yes we are all equal in cyber land IMHO, of course some people have expertise in certain areas which is so very useful, (I have gleaned loads of information) but we all need to give respect to each others opinions.

Hi Honeybee

> Funnily enough I notice plenty of people asking for advice, receiving it and then saying thankyou, they are so glad they found this useful forum

I agree - thankfully neither gratitude nor good manners are entirely lost by any means :)

> And yes we are all equal in cyber land IMHO

I think that depends whether it's advice being given *through knowledge* or opinion being given *without* - certainly on the canine dedicated boards, as opposed to Foo, Idle Chat etc :)

What I've always liked most about this forum rather than any other I've come across is that there is a wealth of experience on it with many members having decades of animal husbandry in all forms behind them and sound advice from their hard earned experience is readily given.  The 'non-fluffy- status of CD is to me it's greatest attraction but some appear to see it as snobbish or harsh, especially re breeding matters.  Ironically some of the most abrupt, pointless and rude responses are made by those with the least practical knowledge

It's an open forum and indeed everyone who remains within the TOS has the right to post on any subject but, from a personal POV, I worry that sometimes very inappropriate advice is taken up on the basis that a poster has good writing skills despite in reality having dubious canine ones.   The person needing advice may be hard pushed to tell the difference - after all multiple stars beside a user-name could easily be assumed to mean greater knowledge.

> but we all need to give respect to each others opinions

There's been a distinct lack of respect shown to valid advice never mind opinions of late - and as mentioned before I hope this trend stops soon :(

I have changed my mind on several things over the years, thanks to this forum. We can assume things because it is something we have heard through the grapevine from people we know, whether or not it is true. When you come onto this site you can ask for, and hopefully receive, advice that comes from knowledgable people. I'm still learning, and hope I continue to learn, thanks to the good, decent members of this forum. Everyone has something to contribute, we just have to sort out the wheat from the chaff. Something that appears to get easier the longer I am on this site ;-)

> I have changed my mind on several things over the years, thanks to this forum

Me too LOL

> I'm still learning, and hope I continue to learn, thanks to the good, decent members of this forum

Me too LOL

> Everyone has something to contribute, we just have to sort out the wheat from the chaff. Something that appears to get easier the longer I am on this site

And it's a Full House :-D

Very eloquently put Teri ;-)

I am an irregular visitor now whereas several yrs ago I used to frequent these boards rather too often and probably more than was healthy or necessary <looks embarrassed> :-D

I am a great advocate of free speech and afterall, every person is entitled to their opinion...BUT there is a limit on personal affrontations. I really can no longer be bothered with all of the snide remarks and often contradictory comments from the self same individuals. I observe these days when I have nothing better to do and am appalled sometimes by the tone of posts. It also worries me that some advice given is at best ignorant, at worst, downright dangerous and there are naive, inexperienced people out there that might just follow it. As a seasoned 'occasional user' I have learnt to know who to 'trust' and unfortunately who to dismiss.

But this is the nature of the beast and like a TV we can all 'switch off' if we are offended or disagree. But it is a shame when generally, forums like this exist to help and educate but turn into political playgrounds.

In saying all of the above I have learnt a great deal from here over the years but have always felt the need to confirm and substantiate advice given because I value my animals and because I am a cynic at heart :-D

Finally, since I have 'been away' I notice that a lot of very knowledgable posters have deserted us and one has to beg the question why?

> Finally, since I have 'been away' I notice that a lot of very knowledgable posters have deserted us and one has to beg the question why?

I think that you have answered this question in your post hairypooch! :)

> It also worries me that some advice given is at best ignorant, at worst, downright dangerous and there are naive, inexperienced people out there that might just follow it.

There are naive inexperienced people giving it too and woe betide anyone who tries however tactfully to steer an OP away from them :(

> Finally, since I have 'been away' I notice that a lot of very knowledgable posters have deserted us and one has to beg the question why?

Well get yourself back on board madam, however sporadically!   You're missed ;)

Totally agree with Teri's post

One thing I've noticed in life and on the web.

The amount, quality and loudness of the advice given is often in opposite proportion to the knowledge of the person giving the advice.  :( :(

In other words, the less knowledgeable the person/the worse the advice, the louder and more often they shout :( :(

These people should remember, it's very easy to tell someone else what to do when you don't have to live with the consequences ;)

Hairypooch - don't go, you're very much needed here :)

My Hubby always says little knowledge is dangerous.

Having lurked in the background and read for some while before posting i have to say there is some very good advice out there, and some knowledgeable people on here, HOWEVER i have seen people jumping to conclusions and in my opinion being rather highhanded when speaking to the posters. I gather we only come on here for the benefit of our dogs and yes, sometimes to idle chat.
I have noticed a handful of posters jumping on some others and sometimes i would class this as bullying, im glad i havent recieved this treatment as yet (and i hope that it wont happen) as i do find the advice beneficial as i am sure others do, i think it would be a shame to put off new people who are looking for genuine advice because certain posters jump to conclusions and assume the very worst of the original poster.

There is an old saying that "empty pots make the most noise".

I'm one of those who doesn't post nearly as much as I used to (I'm Margot and I'm a nearly abstinent CD addict ;) )

Hi stinkypup

> i think it would be a shame to put off new people who are looking for genuine advice because certain posters jump to conclusions and assume the very worst of the original poster.

It's easy to read the worst into things - as you've just ably demonstrated :)  If all of the info relating to an OP's question isn't available then 'jumping to conclusions' is basically the end product of trying to advise on minimal detail.

Your showing thread for example - you've been helped by numerous people on there.  Have you found any of the replies to be rude, dismissive, bullying?  I would hope not :)  But then you didn't suddenly change the query onto a different tack entirely as is often the case with other threads. 

Had you gone on to complain that show goers were basically biased towards 'their own', failed to provide the best website to buy frames for your CCs, whinged at the lack of knowledge on polish suitable for trophies and then summed up with nobody *got to the point* which was 'Are shorts suitable for the best 6 legs class' then responses may have been different.  Whimsical analogy perhaps but many behaviour, breeding, health and showing threads do take such unexpected turns - and, suddenl,y those who have tried to help but not met the expectations of the OP are the bad guys!

Hopefully this explains roughly why I opened this thread,
regards, Teri

> I'm one of those who doesn't post nearly as much as I used to (I'm Margot and I'm a nearly abstinent CD addict

Now Mrs Margot, the distant click of stillettos is sorely missed and chill out dust a vague but happy memory :)  (boy is THAT something we could all do with LOL) Come back hun, there's a lack of gifted genius, grace and glamour - we need you ;)

The trouble is that sometimes they don't always give all the full facts! That's probably why they get jumped on a bit...or else they really are guilty of ignorance and fight back to defend themselves, then 'fluff' out the 'facts' as they see them! Seemingly they see the error of their ways and disguise their money making prospects with ermmm 'facts'???

I must admit I am one that usually critisises, and I acknowledge that...but sometimes I am just so astounded at a) peoples ignorance....especially with regard to breeder! and b) their inability to take seasoned advice from some very knowledgable long standing members.

I also despair about how quickly some 'members' become an authority on issues, especally when they've only just taken advice themselves...they seem to think they have aquired the 'font of all knowledge'!!! Well, I suppose if they read enough answers that is very easy to ASSUME....and you know what assume does? It makes an a** out of u and me!

OI!!! I thought I provided the genius, grace and grimace!!! ;-)

Hi Teri,
i was helped by quite a few people and i now understand a liitle more how things work and i hope to learn more.
But i still have to say there have been a few threads that have been a bit distressing to read.
And i think if you were to take a step back as an intelligent person that you seem you would see that sometimes a certain few DO tend bully.
That is not to say that the O.P is always right but a little bit of tact and diplomacy sometimes may be in order until you DO know all the facts.
I would urge you to take a stap back from the knowledge you know and put yourself in the position of some of the other posters and just see how they are spoken to.

Teri i know i have addressed this to you, this is not personal i am replying from the answer you gave to me. :)

I really don't know why you bother Teri!  :(  I suppose for the ones that are grateful? :)

If I feel that my contribution can be useful then I'll post and the OP has the choice to take it or leave it - but I don't feel the need to justify myself anymore. :)

I don't care about gratitude TBH - it's nice but definitely not a prerequisite.  I do care when attacks are made on well itentioned advice just because it doesn't suit :(

Above all I care - as you do and many others thankfully - about the dogs.  If feelings get hurt, tempers flared etc it's unfortunate and sometimes unnecessary but there are plenty of fluffy alternatives to CD for those that want responses that back up their own flawed methods or massage their egos.

I still think CD is the best forum by far for help and advice.  I hope it stays that way.

>I don't feel the need to justify myself anymore

I keep meaning to take that on board LOL.

> I still think CD is the best forum by far for help and advice.&nbsp; I hope it stays that way.
>

I second that ....(and third, fourth it etc)

Chris

Me too - I dont post on any other forums, I've always found CD folk to be most friendly and helpful.

(I'm Margot and I'm a nearly abstinent CD addict  )   Loved it margot :-D

I think many of the longer serving responsible members who have been involved in the canine world for many years have answered the same questions, albeit from different posters, time and time again over the years and it is not surprising that now and again they will shake their heads in despair at some of the responses they get to the information that has been asked for.

I know when I first joined this site I was sometimes surprised at how passionately people put their points of view over and disagreed with other people's points of view. But having been on here for a few years now I can fully understand how frustrating it must be when good advice from those who have lots of experience and a sound understanding of their subject matter is either ignored, ridiculed or thrown back at them. I have had dogs for years but have no great in depth knowledge of canine matters and am very grateful for the knowledge that has been imparted to me by the posters who obviously know what they are talking about and have the grace to share their knowledge with other members.

I think one of the big differences between this site and many others is that there are a lot of long standing members who do actually know what they are talking about because they are experienced in many areas of canine care and have a wealth of knowledge that has been acquired over the years whereas a lot of other sites have many members who, like me, have owned dogs for many years and have a little knowledge of a lot of areas but not a lot of knowledge in most areas. I have owned dogs for over 30 years,  but that only actually equates to a knowledge of 6 dogs in total so not a great basis for claiming to know much at all.

I am grateful that the posters who regularly impart their knowledge time and time again continue to do so even if their input is often thrown back at them by those who have asked for it in the first place.

I wouldn't claim to know much about cars either despite the fact I have been driving them for longer than I have owned dogs.