Advice please--I can't tell if I am being unfair or not! I had my 16 month WSS in to our local vets earlier this week to have an undescended (inguinal) testicle removed. I asked while he was under anaesthetic for them to take an xray of his hips to get him scored--obviously not for breeding purposes (!!!) but because he is a minor breed and there are not so many about, it is useful information for the health of the breed. Had he not been scheduled for surgery, I wouldn't have gone ahead with this...but then if he'd been normal, he'd be shown and we'd have had him scored anyway.

The vet I spoke to two weeks prior to surgery was cautious with all of this--first tried to get me to agree to castration, which I would never do unless his health demanded it, and then queried the point of hip scoring him. I told her I understood her position, but perhaps if it weren't so expensive more owners would test their dogs and we would all be looking forward to healthier breeds.

Having agreed to the surgery and plate, I was a little annoyed on the day when having waited 40 minutes our appointment I then only saw a veterinary nurse who went through the whole discussion again--"You should have him castrated--we always advise responsible owners to do this", "it doesn't ALWAYS change their temperament" (so why take any risk if it's completely unnecessary?), "if he isn't being shown why worry about a woolly coat or hip scoring"...in the end I told her I had to leave and would ring the vet doing the surgery to speak to him. When I spoke to him he was fine with all of it, incidentally.

I rang at 4.15pm to ask how he was and was told just to come and get him at 5.00pm. When I arrived to pick my dog up at 5.00pm as agreed and had to wait almost an hour for him. The nurse who came out with him was apologetic but said he'd soiled himself coming round and as she couldn't bathe him because of his wound had scissored off his coat round his flanks and rump. Now I know he isn't being shown, but I do take a lot of time on his coat and he was looking very good with a 'back to school' haircut--now he looks a mess and it will take months for his coat to grow in. What was even more annoying was the inference that no one had checked on him coming round to see that he had soiled himself.

Now I accept that I could be out of order on this, but I had the distinct impression that all this came from assuming they had a dodgy owner here determined to sneak an unfit dog into siring litters...as if!!! This is a small breed, his breeder is very well known and respected and there are endorsements on his KC registration which mean his progeny can't even be registered without her consent. I'd have thought they'd welcome owners who care enough to find out about their dogs' health. What is going on????

How long have you been at that vet practice? Vets, receptionists, vet nurses have to deal with a huge amount of irresponsible dog owners I'm afraid. If they don't know you that well yet you can't really blame them for trying to 'educate' you. I've been with my vets for 20+ years and we have an excellent relationship. My vets have never spoke to me about neutering a new dog, they know if I wanted that done I'd speak to them. We discuss all treatment first and it's not unknown for me to suggest something they haven't yet mentioned. I have been sitting in the waiting room now and again and heard them giving other clients the 'hard sell' on neutering, spot on, vaccinations etc so I think it does very much depend on getting to know them.

If you're a fairly new client then I wouldn't worry about all the discussions beforehand :-)

Trimming his coat would however annoy me greatly, my vets don't even shave a bit of their leg without asking!

I've been going to this practice for at least 15 years, although with this dog only 13 months. They've seen him regularly for vaccination, worming, etc and they've also seen my cat and hens over the years. It is a largish practice though and the small animal side is to me anyway less impressive than the farm vets. Interestingly, I know one of the farm vets there quite well (a neighbour and my WSS runs about with her ESS) and when she took a look at him that morning she suggested that because the retained testicle was inguinal rather than abdominal they could 'fix' it in place with a simple procedure (orchipexy). This never once came up in discussion with the small animal vets...castration was their solution. Go figure!

I would have been really annoyed about the coat, I would have said that at the time of collection and asked to speak to the vet or senior partner of the vets.Foe GA our vet knows I do not want the coat shaved and obliges, to be fair I always remind her when leaving the dog say for hip scoring as I realise I am not her only customer.

To be honest I was so relieved to get him back and he was still woozy so wanted to get him home asap. However, I have to go back to get his stitches out and I will mention it then. I can understand them shaving the site of incision, but to hack away at his legs and rump simply because he was dirty seems extreme. If I'd been showing him I'd have gone mad. As it is we have another youngster coming tomorrow who is regularly shown and I am now thinking of moving to another practice even though they are 25 miles away.

I can understand your upset, but if we put it into perspective it's his coat feathering which will grow back, if he soiled himself and he can't be washed re: his operation then there would have been little option but to snip away some of his coat, dogs often do soil themselves after op's.

I'm sure many of us who breed and show will also admit to the odd bit of self snipping away with the scissors around the back end prior to whelping, (hands up for that one) it grows back and a proffessional groomer can soon sort it out again afterwards, your boys coat will re-grow, I was actually dreading the ending of your post, thinking that they had gone ahead and castrated him (in which case I would have hit the roof! ) so am quite relieved that it was just a little scissor cutting.

I wouldn't like it either to have to look at, but what happened is not unreasonable it is one of the lesser things that can happen after surgery and it wouldn't upset me personally that much, it will grow back. :-)

I too was reading this, holding my breath, thinking he'd been castrated after all

Of course since he wasn't, no real harm done. At least nothing which won't grow back in time...
But I can still feel for this dogs owner. I too would have felt very uncomfortable, if I thought the staff suspected me of planning to use my dog at stud. Of course as said above, veterinarians come across all sorts of irresponsible owners. But that's not me, and I would feel upset about the mere thought of them suspecting me. I understand the owner perfectly!
Karen

> Trimming his coat would however annoy me greatly, my vets don't even shave a bit of their leg without asking! <IMG class=qButton title="Quote selected text" alt="Quote selected text" src="/images/mi_quote.gif">

Agree with what you're saying about knowing your vet (and them knowing you.)  My vet would never consider advising me on neutering.  But he always asks about clipping coat off, just for a blood sample.  Even in a dog that is so obviously not going to be shown.

I did once go to collect a dog, and wondered why I was being kept waiting.  The veterinary nurse apologised when she carried my sleepy girl into the room.  Sorry I was a while, but she had peed on her coat, and I just thought I would sponge her off so she was more comfortable.  Sorry she's still a bit damp.  This was a Yorkshire Terrier, so long hair.

I have been dealing with the surgery for years, and I think they know I would not be happy about what I consider to be neglect.

As for actually trimming coat - I would be absolutely mad about that.  My Yorkie girl isn't shown, but I find grooming so therapeutic, and I like her coat unclipped.  I really do understand you not being happy about it, and I would be speaking to a senior vet, to voice my displeasure.

I think actually I'd be pretty cross in the circumstances. I would also feel a bit sorry for  my dog! I know they have no idea what they look like, but I always feel so sorry for our Bichon if I give her a bad haircut!  I would need to vent, so I'd send a stiffly worded letter in asking for a WRITTEN explanation of what happened.

Some vets ( though of course  not all!) can be a bit awkward if you don't just fall in with what they advise.

If you're not happy, you need to take some action.

Best of luck whatever you do, Julie x

> I would need to vent, so I'd send a stiffly worded letter in asking for a WRITTEN explanation of what happened.

It's worth checking through all the paperwork/consent forms first. At the vets we use, you have to sign to agree to coat being clipped/shaved of they feel they need to (we always get a copy of this on signing), they always explain this before getting you to sign, but maybe there was some small print re. coat clipping/shaving?

thank you everyone for your comments, all of which have helped me get some perspective on this. I'll have a look at the small print--the nurse did mention that they might have to clip/shave him for the bloods, and there's actually no sign of any such clipping anywhere. My nightmare was that they might castrate him (first thing I checked!!!!!). The great news is he is doing really well, absolutely his usual self, and that's all that matters. Even better, we have a new puppy on trial with us and they get on like best friends.

Like you I'd be livid!

There is no excuse for hacking his feathering off, it could have been sponged down and cleaned that way. 

Good to see they only did what you asked re the op tho ;)

> the nurse did mention that they might have to clip/shave him for the bloods, and there's actually no sign of any such clipping anywhere

pre-op bloods are often taken from the neck.  If your dog has thick or long fur there it may not be immediately obvious that hair has been removed.

Glad your lad is recovering well.  I'd have been very annoyed at coat being removed due to soiling reasons too.  There are no rinse shampoos which take care of these things and are excellent for avoiding excess moisture near wounds etc. and IMO is what they should have used.

regards, Teri

thanks Teri, I could have added that the nurse said to me "I tried to get all of it off but I think there is still some on his leg..."--I felt sorry for her and didn't want to cause a fuss becaise I wanted to sort out our lad, but the practice needs to take responsbility. Handing a dog back in that condition, never mind after surgery, is a big no. It's 30 years since I worked in a veterinary surgery but I would have expected a disciplinary at the least.