I FEEL SO SICK MY 21 YEAR OLDS OUT TONIGHT TEACHING A CLASS AND IT COULD HAVE BEEN SO EASILEY HIM COMING HOME OFF HIS BUS THAT RAN IN TO THIS BUNCH OF THUGS IT SCARES ME TO DEATH BUT SOME POOR MOTHER SOMEWHERE ROUND HERE TONIGHT IS NOW MOARING HER SON THU SENLESS CRAP THEIRS NO REGARD FOR HUMAN LIFE ROUND HERE NO MORE, I SWEAR THEY THINK ITS SOME KINDA PS3 GAME ONLY THESE VICTIMS CANT RESTART THEIR LIFES , MAKES ME SO DEPRESSED

> i would stress you hear wot im saying and isn't it amazing that you can read so much into wot iv said and then twist it into your own words,
>

I have not twisted your words, I've expressed my opinion on a large, powerfull dog barking & growling at strangers out in public. You didn't say he stopped when you told him to, you said he was on-lead & you had hold of him.
I am very sorry that a child has been stabbed, but it doesn't change the fact that our dogs should not be policing the streets, it's not thier place to bark/growl at anything, unless, maybe thier owner is in direct danger.
I've had trouble with a young boy picking on my boys, even when this other boy has been hitting mine with a stick I have been able to walk with my dog without the dog reacting, also confront the child without my dog reacting and even have a full-blown row with a woman with my dog laying at my feet watching the world go by - it's not his place to decide who's right & wrong out in the street. If his instincts tell him stop an intruder that is a different matter, but he has not got the knowledge or intelligence to be dishing out justice or be 'peace-keeping' out in public.

i to have had rows with a women in the street and a deranged pizza man high on cocain who deliverd here and then tryed to break into my house thinking i was alone when my partner comfronted him breaking in the man started fighting with my partner outside our house all my dogs were loose and i was inside calling police NONE of my dogs did anything just stood watching (even the police found it quite funny that with this massive dog and 2 Eglish bully that none were willing to help their owner) i had to tell them that all my bullys were waiting for was their cheese bits they love and the rottie likes the chicken wings lol, thats true i must say the old man was a bit ticked that none of his boys came  to his rescue, but they new NOT to out the open door i wouldnt have allowed it after all i dont want my dog bitting anyone even in self defense cos he would be put down or branded a bad dog i dont want that, so you cant say my dogs are a danger to anyone i would doubt very much that even your own dogs would have stood still at the mahem i wittenessed tonight , i think my boy could have saved my life tonight as if he wernt with me by my side how do i no that these kids wouldnt have stabbed me as they run toward  us screaming and shouting waving their arms and just acting like animals themselfs it was only my dogs bark that made them run around me and im greatful for that after all they had just stabbed a 13 yr old boy,
police have conered off the area not an unusal sight round her but its never been across the road from my house before, maybe if i'd have taken my dogs out 10 minutes before my dog may have barked at these kids before they were about to kill an young lad of 13 , i no my dog shouldnt and is'nt police the streets but sometime the situation arises that you find yourself stuck in, i walk my dogs that it if theirs bad things happening around me do you surgest my dog not alert me at all?

Just to keep my comments in perspective:
You first said this -

>oh and i just met a bunch of screaming banchies thu our park that of course my big rottie barked and had a growl at but good god their behaviour was so pathitic that even i told them to stut up your scaring my dog

That is what my comments were directed at. Your comment didn't give the impression that you felt in danger, it gave the impression that you were glad your dog barked & growled at 'pathetic', noisy behaviour. It's a lot different than what you now describe it as:

> i think my boy could have saved my life tonight as if he wernt with me by my side how do i no that these kids wouldnt have stabbed me as they run toward  us screaming and shouting waving their arms and just acting like animals themselfs it was only my dogs bark that made them run around me

very interesting reading,who is right who is wrong.Both in my oppinion are to blame.I have bred and kept staffordshire bullterriers for over 22 years.But this is just not the staff i am talking about.It includes all breeds,i kept my own breed line going till two year ago.When my last breed line died,it wasnt to ill health.I raised this pup from the day it was born,never bit any one or showed signs of aggression.I was the first to put my hand up and say no my staffs are great wont bite etc,till one day i had my eyes opened.My partners son lives back to back to us,always jumped the fence to visit his mum also grankids would jump over no problem with the dog it had grown up knowing them,playing with them.My dog was 8 years old,my partners son one day came in through the back garden,bent down to pat the dog and the dog snarled at him.First time any one had seen this,after that he did it a few times,in the end the dog had to be put in kitchen when he visited.Then it happened my partners youngest son visited every day with our grandson a few months old.Her other son from the back of us came in and dog was in kitchen anyhow he was playing with his nephew and one of the other kids let the dog in it flew at my partners son just skimming the babys head.Next day he was put to sleep,i had this pup from the day it was born was even there to help with the birth if any problems.I still own staffordshire bull terriers,but this is just to show you can trust your dogs only so far,things can happen in seconds and it can be too late.This learned me a good lesson,there dogs .not our babies like i looked at mine they were my babies.

I agree ceejay when out walking along the navigation and I see a child approaching I put my cocker on a lead, he loves children but, if I was a parent I would not like any strange dog walking up to my child. When on a pavement I have got into the habit of making him sit and wait until a buggy or walking child and parent have passed us. Its just good manners, often they say can I pat him and I would let them but I never tie him up outside of a shop. Mainly as we are a bit rural our local is Sainsburys about a mile away and he's left at home or in the car.
The dog could have been frightened if the child was loud and came straight up to him, if he could not get away, the dog was in a no win situation. Not a nice thing to happen but not, I feel the dogs total fault but the dog owner and parent should share the blame for that one.

I do agree we have handed too much of our children's control and upbringing either to schools or government what about pratical parenting?

well the parents and grandparents got my sympathy,the average dog owner wouldnt expect their dogs to turn.it doesnt matter how much you critise some dog owners for leaving the dogs with children as a parent ive quickly goe to fetch something from a different room,leaving the dog with my kids.does this make me a bad owner or parent.(how many more owners have left their dogs and children together for a few minutes,now be honest) .this was a tragic accident,the family will remember for the rest of their lives.ps i dont know if this is true but the nan is said to have had a 24hr carer.if this is true where were they.

diggersdad i must put up my hand i have left the living room to go to kitchen for a drink and left my dog alone with my granson and in that few minutes it can happen.But saying that my kitchen is attached to my living room but it only takes a few seconds and you cant remember 100% all the time to move the dog so i guess quiet a few if not everyone on this forum.

>as a parent ive quickly goe to fetch something from a different room,leaving the dog with my kids.does this make me a bad owner or parent.

Ditto. I'd be astonished if anyone has genuinely disturbed dozing baby and sleeping dogs every single time they need to leave the room, however briefly.

The grandmother did not leave either, just nodded off.  I wonder how many more have ever done that.

Yes I can vouch for how hard it is - especially as now I have 2 grandchildren to look after on occasion - the youngest being nearly 15 months old and taking a real interest in the dog - constantly offering bits of food at meal times when I am trying to make Meg 'leave'.    Meg has snapped at my granddaughter once because she thought she was being prevented from sticking her nose in the tray under the high chair for tit bits.  I have removed that now and try to stop any food from ending up on the floor.  Meg hides under the table and fixes the youngest with her collie stare!!   The big rule in our house is - no food in hands while walking around.  ALL food has to be eaten at the table.  It is not only the dog that has to be disciplined.  My daughter however is not quite as strict and really doesn't quite see my problem.  I am much to uptight about things she reckons.  Ha! that would soon change if one of her children got caught by Meg's teeth.  Soooo - I have to be tough with daughter, granddaughter, grandson and dog.  I still have to turn my back occasionally to see to the food and wish I had eyes in the back of my head.