I moved to this city 1.5 years ago and there is a 40 miles per hour road nearby and lots of people walk there dog on the pavement off lead.  All sorts of breeds, spaniels, rotties, collies, labs...  How can people be so confident that there dog won't do a step into the road?????  Once a rottie walked into the raod in front of my OH's car, we braked and the woman screamed, if she learned I don't know, but other than that dogs stick to the path.  I thought this was illeagal?
Do you see this a lot?

I see it quite often around where I live and it never ceases to amaze me how people can be so stupid.

No matter how well trained they think their dogs are it only take a split second with the slightest distraction of a rabbit or cat perhaps and the dog will run.

As a driver I find it very disconcerting to be driving along and see a dog walking lose. Dog owners that do this should have more sense.

It is against the law to walk a dog off lead. However, we have a retired policeman in our village who does it!!

Yes it is definitely against the law.

Dogs are required to be on lead on public roadways.

It is a bug bear of mien as we have signs on the lampposts showing £500 fine for this, but I am never near one when I see an owner with one.

I have occasionally told them I have a bitch in season with me (when not) and they get the dog on lead PDQ, when I say it could get killed running over to her.

> It is against the law to walk a dog off lead.

Can you tell me where to find this "law".

IMHE it is not against the law who walk your dog off lead, except where local councils have "Bye Laws"& have signage to show where this applies. In Kingston upon Hull there is a Bye Law that dogs have to be on lead on roads/streets etc that are bus routes, but here in the East Riding there is no such Bye Law.

Dogs do have to be under control at all times & have to wear a collar(not just a harness or head collar)& ID tag at all times(certain working dogs exempted)of course they are not on your own property. The collar & tag rule applies in vehicles too, since the Bates case judgement was given(dog without collar etc in a public place-i.e. Harry's car! which has now set a president & dogs have to be under control in vehicles too(Highway code)

Moonmaiden is right it is not against the law except on "designated" routes, these are defined by the local authority see the road traffic act http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/Ukpga_19880052_en_1.htm. 

>> Can you tell me where to find this "law".
>

Road Traffic Act 1988 - Control of dogs on roads
(1) A person who causes or permits a dog to be on a designated road without the dog being held on a lead is guilty of an offence.
(2) In this section "designated road" means a length of road specified by an order in that behalf of the local authority in whose area the length of road is situated. (taken from here)

It is unclear from this weather 'road' includes a the pavement next to the road or not, but still crossing a road or letting your dog step on the road when it is not on a lead is clearly an offence.

(1) A person who causes or permits a dog to be on a designated road without the dog being held on a lead is guilty of an offence.

The key word is"designated"If the Local Authority doesn't designate a road than it is not an offence QED

So I'm still looking for the law that states you have to have your dog on lead at all times-might be difficult for the shepherds & farmers to move their stock with their dogs on leads  ;-)

>The key word is"designated"If the Local Authority doesn't designate a road than it is not an offence QED

If the council maintains it, then it's a designated road. Even 'E' roads (the ones with grass growing in the middle because there's so little traffic) are still designated roads.

>I'm still looking for the law that states you have to have your dog on lead at all times-might be difficult for the shepherds & farmers to move their stock with their dogs on leads 

As I'm sure you're aware, working dogs such as these (packs of hounds too) are exempt.
"1) above does not apply to dogs proved--
(a) to be kept for driving or tending sheep or cattle in the course of a trade or business,"

Taken from the above link to the Road Traffic Act.

Extending leads are very popular here, when the dog is on the lead at all, not sure why as they permit the dog to walk across the road without their owner :(   very scary when an owner of a Yorkie allowed his dog to shoot straight in front of my car - which was on the opposite site of the road!!!   Luckily there was no traffic behind me so I could stop in time.  Stupid owner couldn't see what the problem was, but had he had to scrape his dog off the road it would have been a different matter :(

My dogs are too precious to me to be allowed off lead near any traffic - it just isn't worth the risk!

Problem is a lot of people seem to think that their dogs are so well behaved that it is not a problem, someone near me walks their dog all the time without a lead because it's so well behaved, yet everytime we walk past the garden it runs up to my dog to say hello - what would happen if it were out walking and we were on the other side of the road.

A few years ago a GSD who wasn't on alead was hit by a car outside our house because "it took off after a cat" (I'm fairly sure it was our cat).  The owner was distraught and kept saying "he's never done that before" but of course it only takes one time.

> If the council maintains it, then it's a designated road.

No it isn't the Local Authority have to designate the road/street/lane. What they did in Hull was to designate all roads/streets/lanes etc where there are bus routes. On non designated roads/streets etc you could still legally walk your dog-this was proved in court locally when a man was taken to court for having his dog illegally offlead & out of control, before the Bye Law was passed. It was thrown out by the Magistrate because the two charges were brought as one & he was not guilty of having his dog offlead & guilty of having his dog out of control & in English law if a charge fails in law on one part it fails totally. The Local Authority then passed the Bye Law(after taking advice of the Police & strangely enough local dog clubs & organizations) dogs on leads on bus route roads/streets etc

I see the same type of thing happening, although I live in a small village. There's one person who cycles with three GSPs running loose. I hate having to drive past them (and do it very slowly) as I'm terrified that one of the dogs will run in front of the car. I suppose I'm also a bit jealous(!) as there is no way I would ever, ever walk my fox terrier off lead along a road. Leaf - chase; rabbit - chase; swan in the field - chase; people walking - must greet them; other dogs - must greet them too.... etc etc. Partly my lack of training skills, but I want to keep her safe, and safe is on a 3 foot lead under these circumstances. She can be walking beautifully to heel, looking up at me every now and then, but a leaf blowing across in front of her fires up the instinct to chase and she would be under a car in a second...

Claire

>No it isn't the Local Authority have to designate the road/street/lane.

The council is the Local Authority.

My information comes from the council, who were contacted for clarification during the last-but-one F&M outbreak, where public footpaths were closed, but dogs could be walked on 'designated roads'. They said that any roads they maintained came under that definition.

> My information comes from the council, who were contacted for clarification during the last-but-one F&M outbreak, where public footpaths were closed, but dogs could be walked on 'designated roads'. They said that any roads they maintained came under that definition.

That's how I read the Traffic Act - dogs can't be walked off-lead on roads and a 'road' is an area designated by the local authority, ie, if the council call it a 'road' then you can't have a loose dog on it.

Only takes a ssecond to spook a dog and thats it , everyones life is in danger , it ll always be the drivers fault for any accidents though.. Our dogs are ALWAYS on a lead and away from the main roads , not worth the risk

>if the council call it a 'road' then you can't have a loose dog on it.

That's by far the safest thing to do. Our dogs lives are surely more important than our egos.

>it ll always be the drivers fault for any accidents though..

It's worth remembering that it's an offence for a driver to swerve to avoid hitting an animal, in case they endanger other people.

> The council is the Local Authority.

Never is it really. well fancy that & me having worked for years in close co-operation with the Local Authorities in this area I never realised that it was also the council, gosh you have surprised me

(2) In this section "designated road" means a length of road specified by an order in that behalf of the local authority in whose area the length of road is situated.
(5) An order under this section shall not be made except after consultation with the chief officer of police.

My information comes from the Local Authority Bye Laws passed in Hull & under the 1988 Road Traffic Act as quoted above, clearly states that the designated road has to be specified by an order(AKA Bye Law)It does not read"maintained"by the Local Authority. Dog Control orders replaced Dog Bye Laws in 2006(however the Bye Laws remain in place until a Dog Control Order replaces them).Please note the wording: Dog bye-laws are local laws which apply to land designated by local authorities, parish, town and community councils.It does not say maintained

The legal term designate means to select or to choose & ergo to "designate"a road means to select or choose the road-it does not mean all roads etc

> dogs can't be walked off-lead on roads and a 'road' is an area designated by the local authority,

No it says designated road not a carriageway designated as a road.

The Local Authority can designate areas that are not roads where dogs are not allowed on or off leads.This can be a playing field, a car park, a stretch of beach etc etc anything that comes within the area fully or partially administrated by the Local Authority.

I'm not of course advocating dogs being walked or exercised on the foot paths off lead, I'm just pointing out the law & why people can & do walk their dogs off lead legally

>gosh you have surprised me

Hardy har har.

>It does not say maintained

That is what the council in this area informs people to make it easy to understand, and to prevent them inadvertently breaking the law. Maybe your council is different.

>The Local Authority can designate areas that are not roads where dogs are not allowed on or off leads.

Unless it's designated as a road, that comes under different powers to the application of the Road Traffic Act. The Road TrafficAct applies to roads, not playing fields.

Well I'm sorry to say your council is wrong, unless they have a bye law(or Dog Control order)that designates all roads/streets/lanes as areas in which dogs have to be on lead & if so they have to have signage up on lamp posts etc to this effect. If there are no notices there is no Bye law or Dog Control Order.

Because it comes under the Road Traffic Act there has to be signage(it's the same as putting up parking restriction etc notices)

The only reason I know is because our club was consulted(it was held in Hull at the time)in how to implement this very sensible Bye Law, before it was brought in. It was clear at the time that the bus route roads were the ones were most accidents caused by off lead dogs. Since this was brought in, yes there are stray dogs, but the number of dogs with owners not on a lead dropped dramatically to virtually nil. Both the Police & the Animal Welfare officers actively advise anyone they see with a dog off lead on a designated road to put the dog on lead or face a fine(which I think is £500 !) The advent of the Community Warden Service has also reduced the problem. Prevention is far better than cure

See what your saying , could never  hit a person but then again I could never hit an animal either! Shouldnt be going too fast to hit one anyway. I ve had 3 cats killed on the road , one was a deliberate hit ... some people really get to me !!  40 means 40 , 30 means 30 , anything over that in the speed limit then your going too fast !

I have hit and killed a dog (a JR) I was stuck in a queue of traffic doing about 20 miles an hour, it ran across the road through the traffic on the other side straight under the car, I didn't even see it just felt the bump as it went under.  You don't have to be breaking the speed limit to kill an animal :(

Just getting some clarification from my colleague who works in our Traffic unit in relation to 'designated road'.

Will update you when she rings back. I personally thought it was all roads that they needed to be on a lead - which comes under the RTA 88.

> The only reason I know is because our club was consulted

So nothing to do with "working for years in close co-operation with the Local Authorities" :-D 

> So nothing to do with "working for years in close co-operation with the Local Authorities

That came afterwards as the Hull Bye Laws have been in place for over 20 years now

> Just getting some clarification from my colleague who works in our Traffic unit in relation to 'designated road'.

The Police don't designate the roads just as they do not set the speed limits on"designated"roads(signage is the speed limit & repeater signs)the Local Authorities designate which roads/streets/lanes etc has specific speed limits. The Local Authority do have to consult with the Police Authority, but that is all it is a consultation & the Local Authority can go against Police advice if they so wish

> I personally thought it was all roads that they needed to be on a lead - which comes under the RTA 88

The Bye Laws are the orders that the Local Authority have to apply for in order to designate roads for restrictions of any sort. One of the reasons the Hull Local Authority opted for the bus route roads is because this covers any new roads built if there is a bus route on it. Hull has a very comprehensive bus service.

If the Local Authority opts to designate roads as areas that dogs must be on lead they must put up signage & if there is no signage there is no enforceable ban on dogs being off lead

> The Police don't designate the roads just as they do not set the speed limits

No, but you would expect them to know what they are :-)

IMO it is totally irresponsible & selfish to walk dogs unleashed on any road with traffic! 

We live on a 'B' road and won't even walk our's on a lead outside, instead they go out in the car everyday to a country park.  I would rather be safe than sorry.

I live in Croydon South London.a very well populated and trafficy area. It amazes me the control people believe they have over their dogs the number of them that i see off the lead I must take lessons LOL.
I really dont care what the law says it just seems crazy to me , much like allowing young children out alone with a dog -- another bug bear of mine. I wouldnt and didnt want to give my kids that level of responsibility.

I recently had a couple of staffs come flying across the road to myself and my gsd as we were walking one night, the owner was full of apologies and then wacked the youngest dog shouting at it for misbehaving.  Given thet fact I am trying to train my dog to ignore other dogs it really didnt help and the man was very lucky he didnt have a couple of dead dogs on his hands his own  

I have just spoken to my friend who has said that a 'designated road' is made out by the local authority. These designated roads are ones which the local authority has placed a speed limit on.
So if the roads have 30, 40 or 50 speed limits then it is a designated road. They don't have to put signs up to state its a designated road or dogs have to be on a lead either.

On rural roads is a little different which have a national speed limit of 60 unless otherwise stated and you'd be silly to walk a dog along the road of a 70mph limit.

She said that this would be for any local council in England and Wales which are covered by the RTA 88.

Hope this is a little clearer.

Again i do agree with most of you in that it is silly to walk any dog no matter how well behaved and trained it is, you just never know when the dog is going to run into the road.
Also if your dog runs into the road and causes a collision then you'd be liable and would have to pay costs for any damage or worse still injury/death.

>So if the roads have 30, 40 or 50 speed limits then it is a designated road.

So every single road in a town then.

> So every single road in a town then.

Basically yes..

Reading all of the posts to your thread (after a long day at work so sorry if I'm being a plank), I'd say the law, whether it's Police, Council, Highways, Traffic or whatever is an ass because I'm still not sure where people should or shouldn't walk their dogs loose, I just know I wouldn't anywhere near a road.

The law is very confusing and ambiguous. Its hard enough for us who have to enforce it to get our heads around some of the legislation.

Often a lot comes from case law in which we work on when there is often confusion. We use PNLD website which is different to the one which the GP have access to. We get all the break downs of what certain words mean and then can work on that to make sure we have the right piece of legislation to be working with.

I'm not at work right now and don't have access hence why i called my mate who is a traffic officer. This is how she would deal with this situation, though unless the dog was causing a real problem and not behaving then there would be more important things to worry about - like people driving using mobile phones, speeding, rtc's etc etc.
If the dog caused an accident then that would be a whole different ball game.

> The law is very confusing and ambiguous. Its hard enough for us who have to enforce it to get our heads around some of the legislation.
>

My very point, if you guys that have to enforce it find it confusing what chance do we the GP stand, but I say again for the love of dogs don't walk them lose by a road, I don't want to hit one if he see a bunnywabbit.

I have to say though that the law we deal with on a day to day basis is easy to understand, its the law which we don't deal with very often or come across that often, like dogs being on a lead under the RTA 88.
Even traffic officers don't deal with this very often either, if ever.

>These designated roads are ones which the local authority has placed a speed limit on.
>So if the roads have 30, 40 or 50 speed limits then it is a designated road. They don't have to put signs up to state its a designated road or dogs have to be on a lead either.

That doesn't make sense because the Local Authorities set speed limits for all streets/roads/lanes etc even if it is the national speed limit. It would appear what the Local Authorities class as a "designated"road & what the Police view as a "designated"road for the purposes of the control of dogs are two different things in Hull at any rate. How odd that a recently appointed Community Warden was told on their training course about the"dogs on leads"designated roads in Hull by the Police Training Officer !!

>How odd that a recently appointed Community Warden was told on their training course about the"dogs on leads"designated roads in Hull by the Police Training Officer !!

Very odd indeed. It seems that perhaps the rules in Hull are an anomaly and might not be the best example to use when explaining national law.

I wouldnt even contest it. Dont care 'what sort of road it is', if there are cars travelling on it my dog stays firmly on a lead. Common sense tells me that

See what your saying , could never  hit a person but then again I could never hit an animal either! Shouldnt be going too fast to hit one anyway.
most people don't plan to run diwn peple or animals. I saw a young man leave a pup and see some friends over the road and withourt warning suddenly ran right into the road from between parkeed cars right into a car. No way could the driver have seen him or anticipate his action or even known he was there before she heard the thud of hos body hitting her car.  A friend who is a school teacher and youth worker killed a little girl who had a fight with her brother on the way to school ans was walking away from the road when she suddenly changed direction and ran into the road. If someone or something suddem ly decided to throw themselves right in front of you car you can't help but hit them. It's just tragic for all involved.

And in general response to the thread -  I know three dogs now who were so well behaved they could be safely walked along the road off lead - they are all dead - were startled, or saw a cat etc and suddely ran in front of a passing cars. Not the fault of the drivers. Added to that if they do this and you see them before you hit them then by reacting to miss them you could kill someone else. Then the dog owner would hopefully be prosecuted for causaing the death but that'd nopt bring someone back to life. Even if folk don't love their dog enough not to want to keep them safe then they still should not take the risk with the lives of others or the risk of ausing trauma to drivers who do love the dogs!

It doesn't matter if its against the law or not....fact is you could have a dog which is sooo well behaved and you know it because you have trained the dog yourself, BUT did that training involve two cars colliding?

A dog could be panicked by a car collision and then you don't know what the dog is going to do, it could remain calm, it could run, it could bite, but most of all it would be out of your control and by not having it on a leash you have no control over your dogs actions, where as if a dog is on a leash you have some control at least!

Only yesterday I stopped to allow a woman on one side of the road, on a bend!!!, go to her Border Collie which was already on the other side of the road at the entrance to the park and sitting on the pavement.  I stopped, no other traffic in sight, and waved her across in case the dog came back over but instead she called it to her on her side of the road.  I then slowly moved on and when I looked in the rear view mirror, low and behold she does a 'send away' to the dog across the road and to wait at the park gate again.  I live on the other side of the park, on a street with the only traffic being the few residents there.  On my ultra quiet road that would have been unacceptable but on the road at the other side of the park it was disgraceful.  It's on a bend, at a mini roundabout and also part of a main bus route

This dog was clearly very well trained but why would anyone practice something like that on a road??? - and there was no mistaking what she was doing.  It was a disgrace but in view of the sweep of the road and potential risk to me parking up (illegally) I had no option but to drive on instead of giving her the earbashing that I wanted to!