well with example a gundog ok they are still used, however what about dobes or rotties?

> I have done some research on banding in the past and it dose seem to be better than cutting off the tail.

I have experience of both and found it no different.

Is a spaniels level of activity higher than that of a border collie or a dalmatian then?

That would not help convince me.

there jobs are very differnt ,im not talking about the way the tail is wagged and then banged !!!

Joking apart it does amaze me that I have never had to deal with a damaged tail. Touch wood.
Although I would not choose to dock I can see the benefit to some breeds that have a job to do.

> Although I would not choose to dock I can see the benefit to some breeds that have a job to do.

Exactly but it amazes me that the law does not recognise that dogs do not think to alter their behaviour when nobody is employing them :-)

True, I was going to say this to one poster who said they would never work their dogs without them being docked, ( I think that is what you meant White Lilly :) ) hence the detachable tale comment, :)

A breed like mine, (in an ideal world)  should be able to both work and show, as should so many other breeds that have unfortunately split into the working/showing  types.

I do think dogs not being able to be shown with the docked tail increases the chances of breeds splitting into showing/working types.

>> Exactly but it amazes me that the law does not recognise that dogs do not think to alter their behaviour when nobody is employing them :-)

Just try telling mine they are not working every time we go for an off lead jaunt :-D

exactly isabel a dog dont change their behaviour and still goes mad when out walking ,but it just dependes were you walk them :)

lol i know what you mean but my father in law as the same dog as we have ,not from my litters ......he has his tail and the amount of times hes at the vets for splitting the end of it ...ive lost count !!! and it takes along time to mend and even longer as he never leaves it alone ....i wouldnt be able to work them if they were always splitting them ,now im not saying all working dogs do with tails im just saying i dont want to take the risk and im all for docking , ......but i do love the look of the tail on my breed :)

should be noted that in Scotland ALL docking is illegal.

> Is a spaniels level of activity higher than that of a border collie or a dalmatian then?

No but dalmaitans and border collies do not carry or use their tails in the same way  and they are not bred to work in very thick thorny cover as Spaniels are.

When I bought my Patterdale I was offered docked or undocked (breeder had 50/50 done). But I live in an area where Patterdales are widely used for ratting.

Dont mind me asking but when u bought the patterdale did u choose docked or undocked tail and why

> When I had new born pups they all wagged there tails when feeding
>

I haven't found this until about the fourth day.

It was a long time ago so it may have been after a few days, but I know they were less then a week old

That is why breeders like to dock in the first 3 days even though it is legal to do it until their eyes are open.

I chose undocked, as I didn't see the need for docked.

I don't agree with docking tbh, though I have to admit I still chuckle when I see a rotty with a long tail....

All of my dogs that are docked were done with them being cut off.  In 16 years I've never ever had a problem with any.  The cry for literally 2 seconds if that and mother was kept around and they were suckling straight away.  Doing their dew claws was what made them really cry so I stopped doing that years ago. 

Luckily for me though I have a breed that can be born naturally with short tails, not that I usually get many in a litter that do have it though.

Hi all, was reading over all your replies with interest.

I myself have an ESS who is nearly 11 months old and is undocked.  He is just a pet dog not working, and I love him with his tail, he has loads of flagging on the underside, I didnt realise how much he would have untill he started getting older, we have had a few problems with his tail, he had an injury a few weeks ago and he wouldnt let the tip heal, he kept biting it, with advice from my vet and the lovely people on here we managed to get his tail sorted, as the only other option was to take a bit of his tail off, I was completely against, I must say though,  I have seen a few younger springers with docked tails, which I hope havent been bought from breeders in scotland as the ban on tail docking in Scotland came into force in April 2007.

Since the ban came into force I have seen a number of undocked dog which was strange to start with as you were so used to seeing them docked, but now you dont take a second look.

Can someone explain the original reason for tail docking?  I understand why you would dock working breeds that are out in the field etc but like with dobs what was there original reason?  Ive had a look on the net and cant find anything.

when i was a child my late uncle who loved hunting of all sorts that in the 1700s they introduced a tax on dogs with tails.this was beecause poaching with dogs was wide spread, and the hounds people used ,like todays lurchers, greyhounds whippets etc all need a tail for balance it would mean poachers were less likely to own or use hounds. most poachers got around this by docking the tail on all their dogs. later on as breeder. started crossing diffrent dogs they still docked the tail to evade the hound tax . i think this is true because surely my uncle wouldnt lie to me. would he?

In Ireland they can still dock but lots of breeders are choosing not to. Dobermanns for instance are still mostly docked as are rotties.

If we are talking non hunting dogs I would imagine the working breeds developed as guard, boxers, dobes, rotts etc were less likely to be able to be stopped by a miscreant without a tail to get hold of.

Some breeds are sometimes born with and without tails so were docked to preserve uniformity, and I suspect that with some breeds in their formative days the tail carriages were so varied it was more pleasing to the eye to have them uniformly without.

> I understand why you would dock working breeds that are out in the field etc but like with dobs what was there original reason

I am sure this will be dimissed as not being a reason...  but look at a Rottie or Dobbie with a tail and one with out. The one with out looks far more serious. As these dogs are often used as guarding dogs I have always thought , and heard it quoted, this was part of the reason to continue the docking..

I do seem to remember someone mentioning the hound tax, might be some truth in it. Would be nice to see the practice stopped.

Can someone give a credible reason for it?

Does anyone know if any study has been done to see whether docked dogs have more problems associated with not being able to communicate with their tail? As tails are always so important in communicating their feelings i wonder if it has any detriment to how other dogs will respond to it, whether they are more likely to be misunderstood?
I suppose as we have bred dogs to have odd tails anyway i such as ones that are constantly over their backs we have sort of changed their body language anyway, but at least they have a tail to wag i suppose?

Mine have tails tightly curled over their backs (it is often said high tail carriage denotes dominance) and have no problem with being understood and don't have other canines misunderstanding them and get on with everyone.

I think dogs are even more atuned to the whole range of body language that we are.  Add that to their ability to smell the other dog and detect its emotions and I think whatever function the tail serves in this area they do not seem to be left with any great disadvantage by lacking it.
Certainly my breed, Cockers, have been traditionally docked but are generally known as being sociable and tolerant and even the males are not given to getting into rucks so one assumes that other dogs recognise their good intentions easily enough when meeting and greeting.

Seeing that a tail in reality would be the last thing a dog will see I doubt it.  Mine have never had any problems from other dogs not being able to perceive their feelings.

maybe its so people might get confused with the dogs bodie language.after all most breeds with docked tails(exept hunting dogs}are used as guard dogs and got the tough look about them. so if a intruder seen a guard dog looking at you with its tail wagging the dogs poss friendly but if it hasnt got a tail to wagg who knows what the dog is thinking. it would make me think twice.