hello I wonder if anyone can help me out. I am what you would call a commercial breeder, and have only had 1 litter due to me wanting to keep a dog for myself. The litter was quite large, 11 little tinkers. Mum had to have a cesearean and therefore, I was roped in to hand rearing these puppies which was hard work. Mum could not sit long enough for feeding however she did clean and take care of them. I grew quite attatched to these little babies and when the time came to sell them, I drew up a puppy sales contract. There were no endorsements on the contract however I clearly stated the following :-

YOU SHOULD NOT BUY THE PUPPY AND SIGN THIS CONTRACT UNLESS YOU INTEND TO BE BOUND BY ITS TERMS.

Special Conditions - THIS PUPPY MUST BE RETURNED TO THE BREEDER IF IT IS NO LONGER REQUIRED. THERE WILL BE NO REFUND OF MONEY

All pups were sold with a contract. I wanted to do this as a way of making sure that if the buyer no longer wanted the dog, then I could find a suitable new home, and was sure that the puppys were ok.

I am in a situation now where a puppy has been sold on to new people. I do not know where these people are or what conditions this puppy is living in. Its very upsetting and I have been bombarded with rude e-mails.I just wondered when are contracts legally binding? All I want to know is where this is puppy is and if she is in a suitable environment. Advice on what to do please would be great......HELP!!!!!!!!!!

same happened to me last week, there is nothing you can do i am afraid. these are really only guidelines and are not legally binding.
all you can do is find where the puppy has gone and establish a good rapport with them and make sure they know you will take the puppy back if they cannot for any reason keep him.

From previous discussions they dont seem to be worth the paper they are written on legally, there was a thread very recently where a Great Dane puppy had been sold on to another person despite there being a signed puppy contract, luckily in that case the new owner contacted the breeder to let them know about the puppy, seems to me puppy contracts just lay out clear guidelines between the breeder and the puppy buyer but hold no water when there are problems, sorry not to be able to say anything more positive, I hope the new owner of your puppy gets in touch with you.

I thought as much, problem is the new owners of the puppy have been roped into the situation and seem to have taken the side of the previous owner, after all they have bought a ped kc reg top bitch for peanuts, it stinks. seems that only place that contracts do not have a legal bind is in the dog world, after all if i bought a car privately signed a contract that it was fit for sale with the seller, drove it down the road and it broke down the seller would then be in breach of contract, meaning a valid contract.

Another example, if you buy a product and return it as faulty that is acceptable, however if you return it because you dont want it it becomes a different kettle of fish, again a valid contract.

Verbal contracts can have a case in a civil court so a written agreement, signed by both parties does not have a chance because its a dog matter, I wonder if the would be the case of with a car, eg, if someone is given a cheque by their employer to buy a car, car is paid for, then that person decides to sell their car, even though theres a written agreement, does that mean there is no case for the employer?

This is madness, and these poor pups can be passed anywhere and could be anywhere. will def be putting endorsements on if I ever breed again, so upsetting.

I'm sorry you must be feeling so upset, all you can do is let the new owners know you are available should they want to keep in contact (even though you might not like them much)
Endorsments are the way to go, they can always be lifted by you at a later date should puppy turn out very nice and you agree to it being bred from.

i would just go to the new owners and make sure they know you are there for any future advice, etc.
hopefully they will understand that it is only for the puppys welfare you are upset.
luckily the gent who bought a puppy of someone i had sold to with a contract got in touch and seems quit nic, but i will be keeping him sweet just in case he cant handle the pup, then he can come back to me.

All experience, but its a no win I suppose. There was a time when I had 2 dogs I could not keep any longer, and as i had signed contracts with the breeder, I returned them to him as I thought I was obliged to do. I had people who were willing to buy these dogs who I knew, and knew that they would be going to new well kept loving homes. I still returned them, broke my heart, so on the other side of the argument those dogs could have been kept close by and I could have seen them regularly and made some money. Goes to show what kind of person I am returning them as stated in the contract, more than can be said for the people in question. Their reason for sale to the now new owners is they want a different breed, wouldnt that be nice, I dont want that one now, don't like it so i'll have another one instead.

Sorry you are in such a postion, and I hope you find where you pup is.

Can I make a suggestion , this is not a criticism.. but on reading your terms of contract.

Special Conditions - THIS PUPPY MUST BE RETURNED TO THE BREEDER IF IT IS NO LONGER REQUIRED. THERE WILL BE NO REFUND OF MONEY

I wonder if this was the reason your pups owner did not contact you when she needed to re home the puppy.

I am not saying you should refund the amount,  money should not be her first priority in finding a forever home for the pup.

But maybe she felt that with you wording of contract..she was not going to receive any money back, and that is why she sold the pup on.

Would it not be better to avoid such situations in the future to word it differently...i.e say  , you will refund what you get for the pup, less expenses..

This may help you in the eventuality that any new owner wants refunding  ,  at least this way you will be in control of the situation.

Just a thought , I by no means mean people should get a refund, but it would cover those who expect it. and at least alert you on the prospect of the pup being in need of a new home.

I agree, but as a first time I had a litter, its experience. I think endorsements are the way forward but surley the export endorsement would have the same value of a contract?

What happens if you are requested to lift the export endorsement due to the new owner wanting to sell cause they do not want the dog anymore?

If when you sell a puppy this is stated on a contract surely in the case of dispute the new owner would win?

I am confused.........

Bear in mind that any endorsement you put on the dog does not mean the dog will never be bred from or exported; it means ONLY that the offspring (if any) cannot be registered on the breed register of the KC or overseas KC.

As long as you have the signature of both yourself and the purchaser to demonstrate that the buyer was aware of the endorsements and what they meant, the endorsements will not be lifted by the KC.

Even the export endorsement doesnt stop a dog being exported as long as the owners are not planning to show or breed with papers in the new country, the progeny not for registration endorsement doesnt stop people breeding either but it only stops any resulting puppies being registered and connected to your breeding.

>surley the export endorsement would have the same value of a contract?

Dogs with export endorsements can be sold abroad - it means they won't be issued with the certificate required for registration with a foreign KC, so can't be shown abroad or any progeny registered abroad.

Thanks a lot all, advice greatly appreciated and new knowledge now gained will be used in the future.

> it stinks. seems that only place that contracts do not have a legal bind is in the dog world, after all if i bought a car privately signed a contract that it was fit for sale with the seller, drove it down the road and it broke down the seller would then be in breach of contract, meaning a valid contract.
>

You could not sell a car though and demand that the new owner only sell it back to you and certainly not return it for free! :-)

If they are KC registered and the ownership has been transferred on to the "newest" owners, I suggest you request the help of the KC.  Write a letter to the new owners explaining your wish for involvement in the pup's life and that you'll be there for support and advice should they need it, send it to the KC with a covering letter requesting them to send it on the new owners.  Then the picture might be cleared and who knows, you may here from them.

Are contracts signed wih rescue centres legally  binding?

They are termed adoption contracts rather than sales contracts and a fee is paid for the adoption, all expenses incurred after the dog has gone to it's new home are the legal responsibility of the new owner and not the rescue so was wondering if the agreement to return a dog to the rescue society if it had to be rehomed was legally binding or not.