Just wanted your thoughts on this as The Guernsey Dog Club passed a Rule in Guernsey last year that you were not allowed to Register a Litter with The Club if the bitch had whelped within 12 months of the previous litter.

Upon viewing a number of websites and general chit chat it appears in the UK that Bitches are being bred from as soon as they are back in season after raising their litter.

What do you all think about this ?

If you did it what would be your reason ?

I'm not having a dig at anybody just want to hear your thoughts on why you would or wouldn't practice this.

IMHO surely it is better to give the Bitch a rest rather than mate her again.

Dessie

Hi Dessie,

I believe that the K.C. Won't register a litter if one had been breed and registered within the 12 months previous unless there was a valid, genuine reason and that the breeder had full support of their vet who would provide a letter to that affect.

There are mixed opinions about this subject and off the top of my head don't know the post heading but if you search the archives you will find them as it has be discussed at great lengths.

BFN

Pam

Hi Pam The KC changed their rules recently and you can now register more than one litter from the same bitch in any 12 month period.
Breadwinner

Hi Breadwinner,

I had read recently that they had changed something but could not remember exactly what is it. Is it not only appicable to people that are not registered breeders or is it the other way around or does it not matter I thought there was a clause somewhere.

I should go read the KC site that would be better LOL.

BFN

Pam

Hi Pam

Thanks for your reply but as Breadwinner has said the KC have changed the Rule which I personally think is terrible.

Will do a search through the Archives.

Thanks again both of you

Dessie

Hi Dessie,

I personally do to , but that is just my opinion and my feelings, whether it is wrong or right I am probably not 100% qualified to say. Although as a woman one labour was enough in a life time for me, never mind a year.

Some genuine people raised good counter reasons recently and did stress it was one offs..I guess it is the not so genuine people that are not putting the bitch first that abuse it.

BFN

Pam

Hi Pam

It just surprised me that it was acceptable in the UK whereas the little Island of Guernsey had made this Ruling for Registering Puppies.

I'm not a qualified person to say anything either really as I've never bred. But I was thinking more of the moral side of it.

How do I find the Archive Section on here? I should know but have never used it before.

Thanks again

Dessie

Hi Dessie,

Click search above the box and type in words related. I however could not find the earlier ones LOL
I know Sarah is a wizz at finding things so she may hopefully see this post and have a bash for you.

( Sorry Sarah if you are a busy bee) :-))

BFN

Pam

The kennel Club did bring in a ruling that you could not register a litter born within a year of last, to fall in line with the law on commercial breeding.

Those required to be Licensed by local Authorities (breeding five or more litters, or otherwise classed as commercial breeders) cannot breed from a bitch under a year from last litter. Beats jme as to how they would know, especially as in some very commercial breeds unregistered and ones registered with dog Lovers etc command just as good a price.

The Kennel Club recently changed this rule for non commercial breedrs (most of us!!) as it was leading to silly situations like when pups are born a couple of weeks early, and they were finding it difficult to process all the exemption aplications in a reasonable time..

Certainly most breeders would expect to wait for a bitch to have a season in between mating again. Some bitches though come into season at 4 1/2 to 5 month intervals, and some breeds regularly only come into season every 10 months, so depending on circumstances may be mated again.

I would be very suspicious when a bitch was bred at frequent intervals time after time! In the breed records supplements the date of birth of the bitch is given, date of her last litter prior to the current one, and how many litters pups born altogether (inclusive of current litter). A lot can be gleaned of a breeders practices from studying this information!

Hi Brainless

Thanks for your comments.

I guess we are lucky over here as there aren't that many people breeding litters of puppies. Just one that had over 24 pups last year and then couldn't sell them all, this made the Club amend rules regarding registering litters within 12 months etc to try and help the poor bitches really and stop the flood of pups on the island which fingers crossed has well from this person anyway.

I can understand it that some bitches seasons are shorter and others are longer. I have heard of some in my breed (Cocker Spaniels) that didn't have their first seasons until they were 13 and some 15 months old and even some that were older.

Also do you think mating the same bitch within 12 months would produce fewer puppies ??

Thanks again for your input.

Dessie

Brainless,

<<<< I would be very suspicious when a bitch was bred at frequent intervals time after time! In the breed records supplements the date of birth of the bitch is given, date of her last litter prior to the current one, and how many litters pups born altogether (inclusive of current litter). A lot can be gleaned of a breeders practices from studying this information! >>>>

I think it would be a good idea if these were readily available for people to view but am I right in thinking they can only be bought from the Kennel Club? I for one would like to have a good read at them but I think they're expensive if I remember right.

Dessie,

IMHO I don't think a bitch should be bred from on consecutive seasons. I think like any female she should be given a rest.:)
Dot

Have to say I think each case should be looked at individually.
I have a bitch - fantastic brood bitch - that after her first litter when the pups were 3 weeks old got pyometria. the cure was prostaglandin followed by a course of Marbocyl. This cured the pyo but on NEXT season it was recommended another course of Marbocyl and another litter. We were shocked at this but it was recommended by the vet. Our vet back then also stated if the bitch is in good health then there is no medical reason why she cannot have pups on successive seasons - in the wild she would. After that litter we left her a year but each season gave her Marbocyl. Next season she had a litter and then also the following season. She will then be left a year before her next. So as I say some bitches for medical reasons - especially if prone to pyo - have good cause to be bred within 12 months. If you have a bitch of good stock that produces excellent puppies then you want to ensure she is not put at risk.
Likewise some may say if a bitch had a very small litter previously or did not actually rear the litter herself then she may be considered able to have a litter within 12 months. I am not saying every 6 months regardless but that each case should be judged on its own merits and not be frowned upon until the facts are known.
I think the KC were so bogged down with the applications showing just cause for litters in 12 months that that is why they decided to change the rule back.

I think they should put the information on their website! :D

Yeah that may be an idea but for Joe public just looking for a family pet does he want to read all that which won't mean anything to him?
It is usually other breeders that may question the whys and wherefores so all I was saying was that it should be acceptable by the breeder to be asked why without taking offense. After all if genuine reason then nothing to feel awkward about. They should not have to make a huge statement about it. :-)
Must make it clear would not agree with every season continually only if good reason!

there was only 10months between my latest litter and the one before-i decided to have another as id nothing from the previous one to carry on the lines with, so if anything happened to casey that would of been it, as the dam is producing such lovley temperaments and quality pups id of been gutted to of lost that line, ---also in her previous litter 3 of the pups where born dead so she didnt have too bad a time rearing the ones that where left, as i wean my pups really early, between 2-3 weeks then i decided to go ahead, ---the dam was and still is in excellent condition as marie and sharon will tell you im sure and that this litter hasnt been too much for her at all, in 21 years ive had 5 litters, so dont think i could ever be accused of overbreeding, i just value the input of this bitch and didnt want to risk losing it, -the breed as yet still isnt as uniform as it should be, also a few will still back off judges, so in my opinion i had a valid reason,

Hi Linda

Thanks for your input on this topic.

My interest is purely as an outsider as I just wanted to hear what you all thought about this topic in the UK, and the responses I've had have been very good and informative.

You are a very responsible Breeder and one that would have put a lot of thought into mating your bitch. The person in Guernsey that keeps breeding her bitches season after season is I'm afraid to say only interested in it for the money!!! Not for the betterment of the breed or anything like that just pure and simply for the money!!!

Thanks again and I know this is a bit late but I loved the photo of you and Casey in DG the other week, forgot to say earlier.

Take care and keep up the good work.

Derryn :D

No question that she's in good nick Linda :-). I really don't know where the line should be drawn between rules to try to stop the irresponsible and rules that will cause problems for responsible breeders as they are always going to overlap. I've not had two litters within the year because I've never had a compelling reason, but wouldn't hesitate if I had as long as the bitch was in 1st class physical condition and had not had any whelping/mothering problems in the past.

Dizzy
I am interested why you wean your puppies so young?
Ted

Also do you mean start to wean, or wean off Mum totally? I start to wean my pups anytime after their eyes are open if they start showing interest in Mums food (I feed soaked food to bitch in whelping box), and if weight gain seems to be slowing.

by weaning i dont mean at that age i wont let the bitch in-however i try to take the most of the load off her, i start them off on porridge as soon as they'll have it, i also clear up after them as the dam would if she felt she was supposed to, --she had a big litter of 7 , so i tried to make it as easy as possible for her, --i also feel that although i worm thoroughly that while the circles going on-[feeding-clearing up etc] --that its just reinfecting etc, --but again -if the bitch wanted to be in for longer id not stop her,

Dessie,

Dizzy has given the kind of example I was refering to when someone has thought it through and has the right balance. It is going to benefit the breed and her lines.

Wish everyone that had a litter was like that. I was reading lastnight some of the petshop breeder stories I was nearly sick.

BFN

Pam

am i right in thinking you can only register two litters per bitch any way?

No Zoe, you can register more than that.

Fiona
x x x

You can register up to 4 litters now in 12 months without a breeders licence.