HAVE GOT 3GSD AND HAVE ONE 3 MONTH OLD ALASKAN MALAMUTE AND I AM CONSIDERING FEEDING USING THE BARF DIET. COULD YOU GIVE ADVICE ON WHAT TO START THEM ON AND HOW MUCH TO FEED. WORRIED MIGHT GIVE UPSET STOMACH OR OVERFEEDING.

Hi
A rough guide is to feed 2-3% of adult bodyweight, but this will vary depending on metabolism, age and activity levels.  Most people start with chicken wings, but unless the dogs have any known allergies to any particular protein source then there is no particular reason why you shouldn't start with anything else eg breast of lamb.

Why not join the BritBarf group on Yahoo?  The guy that runs it has GSDs and is a mine of information - as are many of the other people on there.

Hi
I have two GSD's and feed the BARF diet.  I got started after reading Dr Ian Billinghurst 'The Barf diet' its a great book to get you going.  In brief, my dogs have 4/5 wings or a lamb bone in the morning and 1lb minced meat (a variety of chicken, best mince, lamb & tripe) and veggie/fruit glop each per day.  They both have natural yoghurt and cottage cheese, pilchard, eggs, offal etc a few times a week. The amounts you give depend on age, exercise levels, sex, weight etc so its a case of watching their weight and adjusting accordingly.  For example my very active 2 yr old bitch (30kgs) eats more than my 7 yr old 42kg male.  Good luck with it, I strongly believe its the best way to feed dogs and you will notice so much difference after a very short time.  Coat, behaviour, smell, poo size & its also cheaper than 'premium' complete food.  Best of luck. 

a stupid question really a friend and i were discussing barf diets and she is dead set against it , i do give mine tripe  not every day , but the big debate we had was about raw chicken , she is convinced that the bones would perforate the bowl , if they did "i know there would be a lot of  ill dogs about " I tried to tell her it was different from cooked chicken bones ,can someone confirm if that is the case , just to settle this discussion cos its getting a bit heated now

i have seen dogs with perforated guts and impacted bowels from eating too many bones

So you work for/at a veterinary practice ?

I wonder how Foxes manage not to die all over the place in large numbers from eating raw ?

yes i do, one of the largest referral hospitals in the country. i can assure you i am not lying about seeing these dogs. i have nothing against feeding raw if done correctly, however, we do see dogs with conditions caused by feeding an innapropriate diet.
i cannot speak on behalf of foxes, but these are animals far more accustomed to eating raw, many hundreds of years of evolution mean our dogs have different digestive systems from wild animals so cannot be compared directly. i am sure they are more likely to die being hit by a car :(

> yes i do, one of the largest referral hospitals in the country. i can assure you i am not lying about seeing these dogs. i have nothing against feeding raw if done correctly, however, we do see dogs with conditions caused by feeding an innapropriate diet.
> i cannot speak on behalf of foxes, but these are animals far more accustomed to eating raw, many hundreds of years of evolution mean our dogs have different digestive systems from wild animals so cannot be compared directly. i am sure they are more likely to die being hit by a car :-(

Do you know what kind of bones these dogs have eaten? Raw or cooked? Have you seen dogs with problems like these from eating chicken wings and other raw poultry bones?

i have seen issues with both. the problem often seems to be when they are fed too many bones, often exclusively and without a gradual introduction. of course, thousands of dogs are fed this diet without problems, but be aware that problems can occur with a raw diet.

I  used to work in a veterinary practice, the only 'bone fed' problems we had were when the owners gave cooked chicken bones or cooked pork/lamb bone.  As far as I am concerned the benefits outway the risks (there is a risk with any food we give) but the skin problems, ear infections, colitis, dog odour etc seem to be less and less in barf fed dogs.  My vet is in total agreement of my diet I because I do it with great thought and have studied it to the best of my ability.  Just because some dogs become ill on 'feeding bones' does not mean its a bad diet, how do we know if they are giving them raw or partially cooked and that they balance it out?? I was guided by a lady who has fed barf to her BSD's & GSD's for over 40 years, has raised all her litters on it and has never had a problem in that time - thats good enough for me!

As far as I am aware, a modern day dog has nothing different genetically than a wild dog or wolf - so by feeding raw is the most natural thing we can do for our dogs. Am I wrong in that assumption?

You do have to be careful with the high content of fats as this can play havoc with the pancreas, and of coarse we have to remember the animals we are feeding them with have usually been fed at some point with a man made feed.  I believe our whole food chain is affected but thats another post.lol  I do believe that some dogs will flourish with a barf diet and some will not. The basic genetics are the same but we have created all kinds of problems sadly

> Just because some dogs become ill on 'feeding bones' does not mean its a bad diet,

Exactly, every dog is different and what suits one will be detrimental to others.  I feed mainly kibble but will supplement with raw to give my dog(s) a bit of variety. 

The risk in Bone impaction / perforation / poisoning and any other GI problem is a valid and interesting one.
However I think we may be in danger of swaying the main body of the topic away from the OP's original question of amounts and introduction...

I've posted a new thread. (Newfienook, have put an article on this thread you may find useful to print off and give to your friend of whom you are in debate with, for a bit of perspective ;) )

To the OP,

~What diets are your dogs currently having?
~Do any of your dogs breeders feed raw? as having a 'mentor' is a great help..actually I would say essential. (as long as that mentor knows, of course, what they are doing!)
~ You can read Dr. Pitcairns raw feeding books on line via google books.
~ Kymythy Shultz writes really good user friendly books good to have a copy of hers to hand.
~ I second the yahoo group 'Brit Barf' suggestion (can take a while for your membership request to be accepted but hang in there, definately worth it)
~ Do try to get yourself a good Mentor (preferably in your breeds)
~ A vet check (if not current) is a good a idea to establish all dogs fit and well to change over.
HTH?

This forum is a good mentor, always someone about to help.

I would start with chicken wings as I own a Spaniel, but with GSDs you may be better with something larger like breast of lamb, or pork ribs etc. The most important thing to be sure of when you first start giving raw bones is that your dogs know how to deal with them. Dogs that have been fed dry kibble all their life will invariably not know how to deal with bones. To start with watch your dogs very closely when feeding bones, if you feel they are trying to inhale them hold onto one end and make sure the dog knows how to gnaw on them as imo inappropriate introdution to bones is probably what causes impaction/bowel perforation in the first place.

You should feed between 2-3% of the body weight, but that does very much depend on the dog as someone has already said. My Spaniel is currently on 1.25% of her body weight as she gains weight on anything more, so it's always a good idea to go by your dogs physical condition than anything else.

I tend to feed 10-15% bone (pork ribs, breast of lamb, chicken wings, ox tail etc), 5% offal (kidney and liver of varying species) and the rest muscle meat (heart, minced beef, green tripe, rabbit, meaty mince mix etc) I also feed tinned pilchards as my dog won't eat fresh fish (you can feed fresh whole fish, the bones don't appear to bother most dogs, but again close observation is a must at first) and eggs a couple of times a week. This variety can span several weeks, you don't have to get the amounts exact week to week.

I get most of my stuff from DAF petfoods and it's very reasonably priced and excellent quality, for odds and endeds I go to a wholesale butcher and I occasionally get the odd thing from the supermarket. The trouble with buying in bulk is you'll need a very large freezer to store everything, a solution to that, however is to find a friendly butcher who is willing to supply you with things every week.

Research is everything with raw feeding imo, so you're doing the right thing asking questions first. I would definitely join Britbarf as there are some seriously knowledgable people on there and there are many books out there that you could read also.

Hope that helps a bit and good luck! :o)