Put my foot in it today big time, whilst at vets puppy pre-school of all places, and wonder what others think/would have done?  This was Lollipop's first week, and there were a few pups present who had been before.  There was a very attractive Staffi, about 16 weeks old, a lovely Cocker, and what I took at first glance to be a young whipppet, as well as a few other first timers like Lollipop.  The owner of the staffy and whippet were chatting in the group, talking about staffy's,  and getting a closer look at the whippet, I decided it must be a whippet cross, possibly cross staffy.  It was 14 weeks old, and generally looked like a slightly biggish, heavier boned whippet, blue in colour with little white on neck and chest, but the head was not quite right, a bit less refined than whippet should be, so I thought might have a touch of staffy in the mix. The pup began playing with Lolllipop, and the owners asked about her, so in the spirit of friendliness and keeping the conversation going I asked if there pup was whippet cross Staffy?  They looked horrified, and were very quick to assure me she was no such thing - she was a pedigree Staffy!!!  What is more they had traveled from the North East to the Midlands to get her, as she was very rare blue colour and had cost £500!  I appologised, but had to ask if they were sure.  Possibly not the most PC thing to say, but I was absolutley astounded.  This pup looked whippet in almost every respect, and a million miles away from staffy apart from a little in head.  What made it worse was having the other staffy present, who was less than 2 weeks older, was twice her weight and 4 times her width, and was all staffy to look at. It turned out that they had been chasing the  breeder for the KC reg, and had finally been told the pups would not be registered, although they were unclear why.

I wonder if I did the wrong thing, and should just have apologised for my mistake and not queried further.  After all it was not my business, and they are very happy with the pup.  What would everyone here have done?

Also, thinking further, can one have breed specific DNA test done, or purely for parentage?  Not something I have every considered before.  Wondered as well why the vets had not queried breed when pup came in for its vaccinations - is this a big no-no for vets, to disillusion clients?

I think you did the right thing, these people have obviously been ripped off for £500 by some unscrupulous person, perhaps it will make them really look at how Staffys should look and possibly demand their money back for what is at best a crossbreed.

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Oh dear!   Thinking about it I'd probably have done the same ;)  Oh heck what am I saying?  I have done the same - with a friend who was convinced I could be having a brown-eyed baby despite both myself and OH having very blue eyes   she knew this was correct   I argued 'genetics' until she told me she knew it was possible as her OH had blue-eyed parents and his eyes are dark brown!!!!   cue lots of back pedalling and a very quiet me :blush:  I've also done the same as you and then realised that sometimes you just gotta back down quietly and bite your tongue ;)

Not sure of the position with vets, if I was a vet I might suggest that they check out both parents again ;)

I don't think you did anything wrong, wouldn't you want to know if you'd been ripped off?

Gwen rightly or wrongly I know for sure I'd have blurted out the same.  It's what comes naturally (to me anyway :-o ) in that situation.  I'm sure these folks will love and cherish their puppy regardless of it's background but what a shame they've been ripped off :(

As for vets, some that they've identified as Staffs, Labs or GSD over the years have been based on little more than a 'whiff' of said breeds somewhere in the background - maybe even nothing more than markings for 'GSD' for eg.  I don't think they always really know and in other cases think it's just sufficient they have an 'idea' of the 'breed' :(

i have done exactly myself in the past!!! LOL

Gwen your so lovely & smiley & friendly that they couldnt have possibly taken you the wrong way! however we did have 2 staffs one a show boy & one that looked very...
shall we say athletic looking we used to say he was half whippet half border collie!
People always would ask "they look so diff why?" mmmhn as we became knowledgeble about where to buy from second time round.

re brown eyes from blue eyed parents Our  second son has very dark brown eyes & we have blue eyes!
A very young midwife 18 years ago said thats not possible  is it? what???? HUH!!!! exuse me!!!

> I argued 'genetics' until she told me she knew it was possible as her OH had blue-eyed parents and his eyes are dark brown!!

I'd always thought that wasn't possible but apparently it is :-) This seems like a good article on the subject.

On the subject of the puppy, I've done similar asking if something is a cross when it's actually (allegedly) a pedigree.

100% guarentee fact possible I have the proof...& NO HUBBY DOESNT GO ON HERE wink wink!!!!
my father had dark brown eyesmy brothers have dark brown eyes
1st son blue
2nd son brown
Gee i am getting para! but no I would have remebered!!! Infact I would have been so lucky!!!
come on MUST be other couples who have blue eyes with brown eye/d child/ren

>I'd always thought that wasn't possible but apparently it is :-) This seems like a good article on the subject.

Thanks for that :)

While I'm willing to concede that it is possible, in his case too many genes were changed :-D I met his brother, I'm SURE the milkman was involved ;)

I have seen someone's eyes change colour in their teens :-D   My sister had Bright blue eyes - turquoise blue - until she was about 15, then they started changing colour, we used to check every day fascinated, eventually they ended up the same colour as our mum's and brother's, hazel green.  I still have the boring blue eyes :(

pamb
It's always been accepted that brown eyes can 'mask' any other colour eyes, but it was always asserted that blue eyes were recessive and couldn't 'mask' any other colour, a bit like you don't get any other colours in a pure-bred Weimeraner litter ;)  different shades maybe, but not totally different colours and certainly not black, but obviously genetics has moved on since then with DNA testing.

> boring blue eyes

I am not having that Dill :)

All my family have brown eyes except me, at school I was the one referred to as the milkmans :(
Now I am married to an Indian man and all my sons have blue eyes, although everyone thought my eldest soon to be 19 would have brown, but no they are the same denim blue as when he was born :) and very dark almost black hair, gorgeous although I say so myself ;)

Also, thinking further, can one have breed specific DNA test done, or purely for parentage?

It's available in the US, don't think it's reached the UK yet.

Oh Gwen you are not alone, once said to someone at a show, that is a nice young greyhound you have is it 6 months, steeling myself to having to ask that it was removed from the show. I was somewhat embarrassed to be told it was a fully adult whippet, well it may have been, but typey it was not and must have pushed the upper height limit by a good 10", and I was the one embarrassed :-)

> I have seen someone's eyes change colour in their teens :-D   My sister had Bright blue eyes - turquoise blue - until she was about 15, then they started changing colour, we used to check every day fascinated, eventually they ended up the same colour as our mum's and brother's, hazel green.  I still have the boring blue eyes :(
>

My eyes were the same blue until I was 12 - 13 and now they are a Hazel green. 

Funnily enough so are my OH's (who Sam met yesterday). 

Just asked him and his were blue in childhood (yes I know babies mostly ahve blue eyes), changin once he reached double figures.

My son (not related to OH) has had green eyes since early on (except as a newborn), they are Cat green, and his father has grey blue eyes.  My daughters eyes are Blue.  My fathers are brown and my Mum has dark hair and blue eyes.

Strangely both my ex husband and myself have brown eyes and my son has blue eyes and my daughter has grey green.

When my son was born I thought how could that happen and when my daugher was born I couldn't believe that neither of my kids had brown eyes, which is the most dominant colour in the genes apparently.

Dominant means that other colours can be present but not seen or passed on unless both parties carry them so two brown-eyed parents could well have children with different eye colour if both parents carry (or mask) green, blue etc.

Interesting as the subject of eye colour inheritance in humans is, please could we get this thread back on topic ;-)

Thanks

Gwen! was it true? did he look like a whippet? well you didn't do anything wrong. You have probly stopped them making a fool of themselves. If they have decided not to reg. the pup, he probly  isn't full ped. anyway. I have seen it a lot in the midlands. They have an o.k. cross SBT then mate it with a friends ped. SBT and sell them as full pedigree puppies no papers. Some look o.k. some don't.

Denese

Yikes, £500!!  Thats terrible.  I would have done the same, absolutely - although I would have shut up instantly I was told the dog was supposed to be £500 worth of pedigree blue staff..........I'd have been too shocked to speak haha!

But I have done the same.  In the park recently Nellie was approached by a very loooong, stumpy legged border terrier puppy. Honestly, it was so long backed and low to the ground it looked like a little coffee table.  "Gosh," I exclaimed joyfully, "what beautiful colours.  What is she crossed with, a dachshund?"

Cue stunned silence, followed by an exchange of glances between owners.  "No" one of them said stiffly, "she is a pure border terrier."

I slunk away very embarrassed.  Blimey, that dogs legs had a LOT of growing to do.....to make them even slightly in proportion with its long back..........

Suze :)

So glad to hear it is not just me who can royally put a foot in it!  And yes, she certianly looked almost all whippet, with just a touch of staffy about her hear (or at least some;thing not all whippet)  A little heavy boned for a good whippet, but how they could have bee happy with her as a Staffy pup heaven knows.  There are an awful lot of staffs about up hear, including some only very loosely related, but you can usually pick up that there is some staff in the mix!

You did the right think. If people buy a dog that isn't what they thought it was then they will have to get used to having it pointed out. They've fallen for a con.  The sooner they catch on the sooner they will stop openly advertising their foolishness! lol.

Well £500 for a designer breed's not bad really. lol.

PAH have a whole selection of attractive books on designer breeds to encourage the buying of expensive cross breeds even more. Not sure if they have one on the  Whiffy though.   ;)

> Not sure if they have one on the  Whiffy though.   ;-)

LOL LOL LOL what a great name for it!

Lol! Because when you look at it, a supposed "staffy", something smells funny ;-)

I think we have all done it!! Only last month when I took my westie to the groomer's I spotted an old dog sitting in the bath.  When I came to collect my westie the owner of the old dog was there and we got chatting.  The old dog was lovely,  a real sweetie.  I opened my mouth and said that of course there was a lot to be said for mixed breed dogs as they usually have such good temperaments.  The owner said ruefully that although you would never believe it her dog was a full pedigree border collie!  She only laughed about it but I did feel a bit embarrassed.  It is only to easy to open one's mouth without engaging one's brain LOL.

Snowflake

Yes, sometimes the edit function between my brain and mouth doesn't work either ;-)

I would have said the same as you, not being a tactful person. £500 for a whippet cross (possibly) Did they get a view of Mum & Dad?

My Mum had a pedigree Lakeland terrier and she was lovely but looked like a midget bath brush and Mum paid about £400 over 20 years ago.

We also, Mum again, had a jack russell that grew and grew until he was about as tall as a whippet, looked like a pure Fox Terrier to me, but that was Mum all over.

Our lovely tempered bath brush was called Purdie!! and she was so lovely tempered but a pedigree - no way.

Saw a lovely cocker at the groomers the other day she was tiny, but had her first season then I remembered I have an elephant cocker so she was propably perfect!!