hope ive spelt it right.Getting puppy tested tomorrow for glaucoma father clear mother clear grandma clear brother clear
Theareticaly would you expect my pup to pass clear ?
im a nevous wreck at these testing times theres so much of untested dogs and makes you wonder if anything well back in your pedigree will RISE up and show its ugly head
As i say there but for the grace of god and doing all my testing go i

Good Luck hope all goes well for you.
I know what you mean it is nerve racking i know from when i have mine eye tested .

I would be shocked if you got anything but a clear.

My breed is quite rare and still using dogs with low scores.  I'd say around 90% if not more of the pups by a very low scoring dog used to a clear dog are clear.  My Carmen, when scoring was accepted was scored between a 1 and 2, her sisters were both clear.  I used her to a male who is from a different line and is clear, she had two pups one of which I've kept and she is clear.

Just hoping that she gets a good hipscore in a couple of months when I have her done, it is soooo worrying!

Unfortunately in our breed it looks as though two of the original imports had the problem, all dogs that have been imported since have been clear.  We didn't know that there was a problem with them so bred them together as it was not a known problem. 

Through careful breeding we are getting a high rate of clear dogs now and thankfully the eye specialist doesn't think that there is a true problem with the breed. 

well now to test for the the fuco though dont really think i need to get that done as both parents were done and thankfully both were clear This now i think is not as much as a problem as it use to be
BUT the cord1 dna testing is quite new and although my dog who is the father is tested clear for cord1 the mother isnt tested and ive checked that her father who has now gone abroad and been tested there, is a carrier ,but the AHT  tell me that they cant say by grandad only by the parents so i will have to see if she is clear or a carrier and if so if i should mate her i will have to make sure she goes to a CLEAR dog and then get litter tested

> my dog who is the father is tested clear for cord1 the mother isn't tested and ive checked that her father who has now gone abroad and been tested there, is a carrier ,but the AHT  tell me that they cant say by grandad only by the parents so i will have to see if she is clear or a carrier and if so if i should mate her i will have to make sure she goes to a CLEAR dog and then get litter tested

Surely if you test the bitch and she is clear, then mate to a clear dog, all the offspring will be clear.

If you don't test the bitch it will be much more expensive to test all the progeny.

If the bitch is a carrier and go clear the offspring are going to be 50/50 )statistically) clear and carrier, and you only need test any intended for breeding.

both parnets could be clear but carry the gene,too.
untill you done dna test the nomal way of testing is the right way to go down at themoment

someone in my breed has dna for pra. result clear, for marks for that breeder

i would only breed with both of my breeds to a 0 or a pass,

Ah we are talking 'clear' as in genetically, where there is no test you can only be affected or unaffected at a given time.

The unaffected dogs may be 'clear'  or 'carrier' assuming a simple recessive condition, which I don't think Glaucoma is (well not the kind my breed gets which is Open angle with no pre-disposition).

i am now on about cord1 THOUGH

I am assuming that form of PRA is autosomal recessive like most others is it not?

sorry not very well up on all these technical terms but i rang the AHT to see what could be the likely outcome of test on my pup remembering father is CLEAR mother not been tested  this is what i was told
                                sire clearxdam could be clear pups +clear
                                sire clearxdamcarrier.............pups +half clear half carriers
                                 sire clearxdam affected ........pups + all carriers
does that seem right?

Interesting thread.
A few years ago a bitch had her test. she passed.
for some reason another test was done about two years later.  she failed
phone calls to R.C.V.A.  quote' It is just an opinion of the person doing the test' (which you pay for the priviledge)
Tested again and passed.............

You pay your money and take the chance.

You do have the right to apeal.

that must have been for the annual eye test i think as cord one is a dna test taken by salvia from the dog you want testing

Yep the chart fro PRA on the Optigen site shows it very well.

Taddog what test was that for?  You really have to be careful with gonioscopies.  Never, ever allow anyone to put the drops in before you go in for the test.  THere are dogs that have been tested in a number of breeds, mine and I think Flatcoats who had the drops in beforehand and got the incorrect test result, re-done some time later and all passed.

Unfortunately your quote regarding the people doing the test is rather worrying, have been told similiar things re hipscoring as well !! 

With my youngest girl I am going to get her hips BVA scored and also sending off her scans to Sweden to see how the scores differ or whether they are along similiar lings!  Especially as her grandad has excellent hipscore in Spain but an awful one here in the UK, which vets etc. are still stunned about to this day.  He is nearly 11 now and only showing signs in the last 6 months of slowing up.

Glaucoma has now been found in KC reg Border Collies & DNA research has already started in Australia. Looking at the pedigrees of the three dogs in the UK that have been diagnosed, they are either all Antipodean bloodlines or the vast majority is Antipodean

test was gonioscopy.

all my dogs had eyes drops put in before their eyes test  fcr and swd all have pass,under two different vet over ther year expext for one.
even proff peter bedford put drop in harley and rush eye back in 1995 at a eye test event we held then harley had a score of 4 he was never put in a breeding progamme, rush had the same treatment done on the same day and scored a 0,

12 other dogs that i have own or bred have had their eyes  tested with drops have all pass NOT scored 0 to 5

harley was a dog i bought in,

They all have eye drops in just before but should never have the ones put in that are 20 minutes before.  So have yours all had the 20 minute before eye drops then?  What I have stated has been advised by the eye specialists.

Hi

I think I can help with the information on eye drops at testing, I have been running eye testing with Prof Peter Bedford for the last 27 years, (this will be the 28th year!). In that time I have seen all the different tests done and have even been asked to write about them in a number of magazines.

The drops put into the eyes for a gonioscopy test for glaucoma are put in immediately before the gonioscopy test. They are a mild local anesthetic to numb the surface of the eye, which allows the examiner to place a pressure cap or lens directly onto the eye to test for pressure levels or to examine the drainage angle.

The drops put into the eyes for a PRA, HC or other standard test are totally different and they dilate the dogs pupil completely so that the examiner can see clearly into the back of the eye and view the retina. These drops take approximately 20 minutes to work.

If you are planning on having both tests done get the gonioscopy done first, as the other drops will make it impossible for the examiner to test for glaucoma predisposition.

If a vet ever gives a sedative or general anesthetic for a glaucoma test, you will get a false result. All sedatives and general anesthetics relax the muscles and ligaments in the eye so the drainage channel will close down on itself and pressure in the eye will drop, so you need to make sure the dog is wide awake.

With glaucoma testing (gonioscopy) the part of the eye being examined is the ligaments through which the excess fluid drains from the eye. If the gap between the ligaments is too narrow, due to thickened ligaments, or is mishappen in some areas the dog has a predispostion to glaucoma. The degree of predisposition depends on how band the remaining drainage area is. This like judging dogs can be subjective and in very mild cases one panelist might pass the dog but another may well fail it.

Originally there was a grading scheme for gonioscopy but it was dropped when it was realised that some breeders would say that their dog was ok to bred from even though the result was not good. So now officially most breeds now have a pass or fail result available.

In flatcoats we had a grading system of 0 (pass) to 5, but then a vet who is NOT a specialist at a flatcoat meeting told breeders attending that "It may well be that is is normal for flatcoats to score a grade one or two". Unfortunately this was misunderstood and some people left that meeting thinking that if a grade one or two was normal then it was perfectly OK to breed from a grade three or four! The vets poor choice of words was stupid, and as the talk was on first aid I had no idea why they were talking even giving advice on glaucoma! What the vet had meant was that it might turn out that most flatcoats would score a grade one or two, but these were still failures. As it has turned out they have a majority of 0 (pass) scores.

One thing must always be kept in mind in any breed which suffers from glaucoma, and that is that it is the most horibly painful way for a dog to go blind! So test your dogs and if they fail make sure you know the symptoms of glaucoma in dogs, because you will probably have less than 24 hours from onset to get your dog operated on to save it's sight and more importantly to save it almost unimaginable pain.

all my dogs were tested either with proff peter bedford or jeff yellowley.
with eyes drops before the test,

thank you polly for writing on here.

Exellent Post Polly, thank you...

Stuart Ellis deals with all my motley crew..

Thanks for that Polly, may actually have one of my guys scored by another specialist and see if she gets a clear then as the eye specialist said that really it was hard to decide on the score but gave her a one.  Maybe someone else will say clear, might be interesting just to see what someone else thinks.

This also makes a dog of my breedings result interesting.  Told by one person that she was clear but he was only doing it for a special trial and was not done for the scoring at the time.  Had a test to get the paperwork done some time later and she scored a 2!

Thank you for the information Polly a timely post for those of use with Border Collies who are now  looking to have this testing done.

I have an evening eye testing session coming up 24th February in Haddenham Bucks, so as the KC has changed the rules and we now have to have our dogs micro-chipped or tattooed to take part in the BVA tests fom January 1st 2010 we will have a micro-chipping service there, and hopefully I will be able to get a tattooist as well.

I am not happy about this change as I registered my dog by DNA with the KC and a DNA register, so I thought they might consider doing a cheek swab to go with each certificate to verify the dog is as it was claimed to be. Unfortunately the KC and the BVA will not accept DNA!!! They say that they could not test dogs and rely on the DNA as it would take too long. Well we wait six plus weeks often for hips and elbows and the last lot of BVA eye test results did not appear on the KC health site, because there was a back log at the BVA from last September! Only four months behind... and the DNA test I did with my dog was back inside two weeks.... Mmmmmm 4 months - two weeks......

It must be mentioned that not all kinds of Glaucoma show a predisposition.

My breed have had cases of Open Angle Glaucoma, where a dog can be fine on day and not the next.

We are under investigation for the problem, but the mode of inheritance has not been established.  Some cases have clearly been related, others not.

Open angle glaucoma is certainly different. I assumed we were talking about primary angle closure glaucoma. Either way anybody who has a breed prone to glaucoma would be advised to know the symptoms.

I found out yesterday that the sire of my KC reg Border Collie has Glaucoma and that some of the offspring have been tested as having a pre disposition. I am devestated by this news and so worried for my poor baby, I will be booking her in for a test with professor Bedford and just know that I will be a nervous wreck until we have it done.

His/her father is Neo then ? Some of his puppies have been tested normal(but obviously could be carriers so shouldn't be bred from at the moment). You need to get some blood samples sent to him(can be done before the eye test). There is a 20/20 clinic on 24th February & Val Tiller will be sending samples to Alan Wilton then. Contact Val via her website. It will be cheaper to send the samples this way than to do it yourself.

Please don't panic, your dog may or may not be affected & may or may not ever develop Glaucoma.

The Border Collie people are as always working on the DNA test as soon as a problem arises & are very supportive

Yes her father is Neo, she has the eye test booked for 26th Feb and I have emailed Val about the blood tests. I have read that if they test as pre disposed that it doesn't mean they will get Glaucoma but that wouldn't stop me worrying! I have also read that you shouldn't breed from a close relative of an affected dog but what is worrying is that I know of people with dogs from these affected lines (close relatives) who have had they eye test come back as clear and still plan to go ahead and breed even though they won't know until a DNA test is developed if their dog is a carrier. Breeding isn't a big issue for me as it is not the reason we got our dog and is something we would have only possibly considered if she turned out to be exceptionaly good at what we do, what I am most concerned about is ending up with a young blind dog so I will keep my fingers croosed that she tests clear on the 26th.

Your vet can take the blood for you & then you send it to Val who will with the TNS cards to Alan, unless you live very close to Val & get there for the clinic

Where are the eye tests being held on the 26th Feb? I would like to know because I often get people ring up too late to book into my session in Haddenham or they forget to come then ring to find out where else they can go.

Professor Bedford Holds a clinic at Cayton surgery in Smallford, St Albans, Herts on Thursdays. He is away for the next couple of weeks which is why i have to wait until the 26th. The cost is £37 and their phone number is 01727 852667

My dog had her test today and was normal so thats a great relief :)