Hi

Can i have the benefit of your experience yet again!

My pups are now 5 days old. Mum is fantastic and pups are thriving and doing well, feeding when they want and sleeping a lot. They almost never squeek!

My two questions are:

1. When is it safe to leave her at night - i am currently sleeping on the sofa next to her whelping box and havent left her unattended for a minute.

2. When can i walk mum - she does like her exercise (thats if she would leave the pups!)

I can only go off the litte I had and I slept downstairs until eyes were open and getting around on their own.  As for walking I took her out as soon as she would go only round the block though.

Linda

When eyes are open for me too.  I allow my bitch to go for a walk when she feels she wants to.  I have always had other dogs in the house at the time coming and going anyway.  In my experience they never want to go very far to start with and will soon want to rush back.

A bit extreme I know, but I've slept downstairs with them until they leave Pups in my breed can be really boisterous and also climb so by the time their eyes are open and they're running around I have the problem of them trying to climb out of their pen and possibly hurting themselves LOL

I do have a lovely air mattress tho and am very comfortable :-D

The bitch comes for a walk when she's ready and comes for her lead with the others :-D but only short walks at first.

Ive never had experience of puppies or breeding a litter, but my mentor sleeps downstairs with the pups until they leave for their new homes :-)

Well, I was 'awake' in the room right next to them on a recliner...after 2 weeks, when settled and fairly safe, I went to bed BUT...they came with me! Slept right next to me by the bed...I am a right worry wart and wake at the slightest sound, it's a real pain! But as I don't work and Derek is around most of the time I can have a little doze in the day and he is never far away. I don't honestly think I could cope with all the sleep deprivation at all if I had to work. But then again since I finished work 10 years ago due to my ill health I rarely if ever sleep well anyway. It is incredible hard work isn't it! As for walking I would have to make sure there was nothing going through the dog population first, check with the Vet that there's nothing drastic doing the rounds, she'll probably just want a round the block walk anyways, I've never known a really good maternal bitch that wanted to leave the litter at all! They are all happy to get back asap! I know maternal anti-bodies SHOULD protect the litter, but as I have already said, I worry far too much, even to the point of having shoes/boots left outside and nothing being trod in on them! Someone will probably tell me exactly how long, but Parvo can last for quite a long time in the ground, years even I believe? I wouldn't want to risk it!

I sleep in the same room with mum and pups for around 6-7 weeks, I am a worrier to lol,

I walk mum when she asks to go for a walk and not before, I find the mums hate leaving the babes for very long at all and get a bit distressed if walked before she is ready so I wait for her to let me know.

My current Mum is so devoted to her 4 week old pups she has made no move to want to come for walks with the others, but often by two weeks I will take them for short walks if they seem to want/need it.

Otherwise as I have said before I do nothing that encourages them away from their main priority their pups, it is both physically and mentally tiring for them.

As for supervision, with my experienced careful Mums I would stop sleeping next to them after a week, otherwise two weeks, when the eyes are open and pups are strong and mobile (by this stage they are walking and peeing and pooing on shaky legs), but this is a breed that are not generally clumsy, and are usually natural mothers, and the pups advanced in their physical capabilities. 

At a week old I would expect them to be a pound - pound and a half, and by two weeks a pound and a half - two pounds, so huge compared to a  toy breed.

Thank you all for your responses,

She is totally devoted and i struggle to get her to go out for a wee without her battering down the back door so a walk is out of the question so far.

I will see how she is doing when the eyes are open. She hasnt sat on them, she walks like a ballerina in the whelping box and she doesnt leave them alone at all however, like you say they are still very light 7oz max at the moment so i won't rush it.

It is just interesting to know what everyone else does.

I am another who sleep with them until they leave , I like to keep them clean through the night as they get older , my breed are also very lively and have on occasion been clever enough to find a way to escape! :)

With the pugs I sleep with them until they are at least 4 - 5 weeks old.  With the American Cockers probably about a week less.  I have the whelping box in the bedroom, so I do get to actually sleep after the first 10-14 days, but am on hand.  As they get mobile and noticing things they come downstairs through the day time into a puppy pen, but travel back upstairs to the whelping box to sleep.

My girlsgo out into the garden, but not out for walks unitl the pups are at least 6 weeks old.  Apart form theinfection factor they are not at all inclined ot leave home when they have babes on the nest.

I sleep with mum and pups for 8 weeks, until they leave for their new homes. Or rather, for the last week or so, it's me sleeping next to the puppy pen, mum has usually by then decided it's time to go back to sleeping upstairs, in my bed ;-)
I like to be there if a pup wakes up in the night, they sometimes have nightmares, I'm sure of that.  Then it's nice to have someone there for some comforting cuddles :-) They stay for such a short time, I really want to make the most of every minute!
Karen

Thanks Gwen, i have a sofa in the kitchen next to the whelping box so am happy to stay with them, its quite comfortable actually and can use these answers to prove to my husband i need to be here!!

i have a puppy pen but am lucky enough to be able to section of a big chunk of the kitchen/family room for them when they get active so they can have a sleep, food, play and toilet area.

Walking is not something she wants to do, i just felt perhaps i should persuade her at some stage but she is totally obsessed which i dont want to ruin so for now she can just go about mothering.

thanks again

Ok, I do things slightly differently to everyone else who has posted and have not had any problems - I have a medium robust breed that are around 15oz at birth - average litter size between 5 and 9.  I sleep down with mum and pups for the first couple of NIGHTS and then go up to bed if all appears well.  Bitches who give me any cause for concern (first timers, clumsy mums, bewildered etc) then I'll stay down as long as I feel they need me but that has only been once in 12 litters.  It was the bitch's first litter and at 5 years old this was very late for my breed - she was completely and utterly baffled by the whole process and behaved like she couldn't hear any of them squeaking - she wouldn't clean them, feed them, look at them even - I had to hold her down at each feed and they were fully weaned by the time they were 3.5 weeks - it was a horrible experience for us all.  As my breed on the whole are very good whelpers and mothers, this was the only litter I had from her as she didn't improve even as they got older - she had no natural instinct to mother them whatsoever and it absolutely wrecked me did that litter!!!  I was the most exhausted I have ever been after the last pup had gone - I was so ill afterwards I suppose from the relief of responsibility and constant 'go' and worry.

Regard walking, I take mum out when she tells me she wants to go.  All my dogs are working gundogs so are very fit and active and when not working they're walked daily (including bitches in whelp) so by the 2nd or 3rd day mum is usually up and at the door with the rest of the gang when they see me get my coat and leads etc usually.  My girls really miss their walks if I don't take them - personally I feel they're more than just mothers and depriving them of the exercise they say they want is cruel.  They set the pace and distance and very rarely want to go very far for the first week or so.  I wash their legs and undercarriages down with a weak dettol solution when we get back more for my peace of mind than anything else.

Good luck!

It seems a bit at odds with telling puppy owners to vaccinate pups and wait to take them out for their first walks, when taking Mum out to public places from just a few days old.

My bitches never leave the environs of my property until pups are vaccinated  - unless a visit to the vet and it's a risk I feel I have to take...(especially as vets will do anything not to home visit these days.) 

Funny how everyone is different in their regime...some people I know even spray folk over with virocide when visiting, shoes off etc whilst some say they take their bitches out in the first few days.

Remember that while they're feeding from mum they're sharing her immunity; she's no more likely to bring back any bugs than you, or anyone else in your household (other dogs, cats, humans etc) are. A dam needs to relieve herself at least four times daily - if she doesn't want to leave them (as is usual in the first few days) then she must be carried out then allowed to gallop back in when she's performed. This is a good time to change the bedding, of course! I find that after a few days the bitch is queuing up at the door with the other dogs for a short walk, so I take her. She needs exercise to help her circulation and general physical health, and of course her mental health too. If she wants exercise then she must have it or she'll get stressed - and a stressed bitch is an unhappy bitch.

> If she wants exercise then she must have it or she'll get stressed - and a stressed bitch is an unhappy bitch.

I absolutely agree Jeangenie- I do pretty much what yad36 does, except I take my nursing mothers out with the oldies so she doesn't race round with her milkbar full as I'm led to believe this is what makes them sag (although I am not entirely convinced!)

I sleep with my pups for the first two weeks on a sofa bed near the whelping crate, then after that go back upstairs to my bed and place a baby monitor in the whelping area until they leave for their new homes. I can hear every squeak and movement, hubby sleeps like a log so it doesn't bother him, (luckily) whereas a pin dropping makes me wake up. :-D

Re: Walkies for my bitch, I'm like tooolz I fully understand about immunity etc and the risk I know is minimal, but I've always been Miss Very Careful, I take no risks, my bitch is used to long country walks everyday you would think she would be going stir crazy but she has never once complained or been bothered about going for a walk, she likes to be within a good distance of her pups. I do have a large garden and grounds with plenty of room for her to have a good run and trot around, when the pups are 6 weeks, I'll call her to come and have a jog around with me, but to be honest she's not that bothered, sometimes I think we owners feel they need a walk when they actually aren't that bothered, my bitch has always liked to be with her pups, (I know some bitches are looking for the escape exit after a few weeks :-D but mine never has) she continues to feed them until the last one is gone and she loves playing with them, she'll occasionally play a little ball with me.

But once the pups are gone she's straight for her lead again, and telling me it is time for walkies. :-D

I would say go with your bitch, not what you think, if she is happy let her be, if she's crying to go out, then if not worried about the risks take her. :-) Otherwise get her to jog around with you.

Sounds basically what I do.  Though none of mine have ever wanted to come for walks that quickly.

I was interested in your bad experience as my current bitch reacted like that when her last pup was born, which came as a bit of a shock 3 hours after the last of the previous 6.

Thankfully the behaviour lasted only a few hours, from 9pm until 4am, initially she was brilliant, then suddenly she was all switched into motherhood again with a vengeance.

Thanks all for your advice.....

This is lack of experience showing here but i understand the risks from weeks 1-3 and i will stay with her night and day. However, a lot have said they sleep with the pups up until they leave. Mine have a puppy pen that mum cann get out of, floor covered in vet bed, bed etc. Is there a risk in leaving them overnight from week 3-8. What is it if they are confined and well fed prior to bed time?

Whenever I have a litter (last litter nearly two years ago) I have slept down with mum and babies for 4 weeks. I would only lie awake upstairs worrying if I went to bed.

Remember that while they're feeding from mum they're sharing her immunity

Yes they do BUT they the dam/mums are not immune to/from everything and the puppies would definitely not have the same strength to fight off everything that can be picked up.  Simple things as Kennel cough or Parvo picked up on the bitches feet are all enough to wipe a whole litter out.

Me, I personally just cannot get my head anyone taking the risk not one I would or have taken. It may be a low risk but a risk is a risk.

After sitting in cars for 1000 mile journey to studs, months of planning, anxiety and everything that goes with it not forgetting the cost or the possibility of losing the " one"  , I personally just could not contemplate taking any risks.  They are like gold bars, not in a monetary sense but in value to me personally.

If she wants exercise then she must have it or she'll get stressed - and a stressed bitch is an unhappy bitch.
 

This can be quite easily achieved with 45 mins of horse play and mental stimulation with a dog in the garden.  

Not something I have ever came across a bitch getting stressed out wanting exercise whilst having puppies in my experience up to weaning the rarely want to go too far.

That just my opinion though and I respect everyone elses methods.

> Walkies for my bitch, I'm like tooolz I fully understand about immunity etc and the risk I know is minimal

Immunity only works with antigens that the bitch has already encountered or been vaccinated for. Common accute dog illness are mutated viruses eg a D and V virus or upper respiratory viral strains.

Is there a risk in leaving them overnight from week 3-8.

The reason I have a monitor is that obviously when a bitch is able to get in and out of the whelping area, (as they should be) the pups also manange to do the same from 3 weeks most bitches like to leave the whelping area and sleep alone watching over their pups and going in to feed and clean and spend time with them, but once the pups are asleep they very often then leave.

I know from 3-4 weeks my pups can just about climb out of their whelping area, it amazes me, but they do, (they then have an enclosed 30ft area for play etc) and occasionally about the 4 week mark one or two will wake me up in the middle of the night squeaking as one has got lost and can have wandered 20 feet in the wrong direction, my bitch is always sat on the sofa bed watching the poor pup squeaking for help, I guess she would eventually rescue it but if a pup squeaks I'm there :-) and often I go and rescue it and pop it back in the whelping area, to then promptly go back to sleep.

The danger is if a pup does not have it's siblings to snuggle upto it can get cold or miss it's feed when mum comes to check. Even when pups are 6 weeks upwards I'll often get up and pop them all back in the whelping crate as they all seem to pair off and settle all over the puppy play area to sleep, pups tend to just drop and sleep where-ever they are when tired, so that needs checking up on.

If your pups can't get out of their whelping area and you are sure they will stay warm and snuggled then you'll be ok, but most of us like our bitch to be able to come and go so that does leave things open for the pups to also do the same. :-)

thanks for that, I cant wait for the clambering stage!

Mum has always been confined at night to the kitchen but does sleep on the sofa. i will play it by ear but i know what you mean about the squeeking. Last night one of the pups squeeked cause she has rolled off the heat pad and managed to lose her litter mates. Mum was on the sofa sleeping with me and opened her eyes and just watched! I instantly got up and popped her back on the heat pad.....so i cant seem me being able to leave them any time soon.

We will see how we go then but i remember mum as a pup and she was crate trained but when out of the crate got up to a whole heap of mischief! :)

> Last night one of the pups squeeked cause she has rolled off the heat pad and managed to lose her litter mates. Mum was on the sofa sleeping with me and opened her eyes and just watched!

I have one of those - a thoroughly un-modern Mother - no cotton wool molly coddling like some dams - sounds like you could be on the couch for a few weeks to come! :)

> Me, I personally just cannot get my head anyone taking the risk not one I would or have taken. It may be a low risk but a risk is a risk.

When there are other dogs in the house continuing to be exercised and the puppies are going to be socialising with them it seems to me that although there may be a risk I am not actually increasing it by allowing the mother to take exercise as well.
I would certainly not encourage it but if the mother is going to be upset otherwise I feel it is for the best in balance of all considerations.

Everyone certainly has to decide what is right for their pups and people's set ups can be of advantage.

When there are other dogs in the house continuing to be exercised and the puppies are going to be socialising with them it seems to me that although there may be a risk I am not actually increasing it by allowing the mother to take exercise as well.


I can' t speak for others but other dogs in my household are not around my puppies till they are older  from weaning time 5-6 weeks there is still plenty of  "other dogs" socialisation time left and the pups are a lot stronger but they still would not be exposed to dogs that had been out walking.  Never had an issue at all.  Happy little socialised puppies.  Mine would be at least 8 weeks before going to homes but generally they are older than 8 weeks.

I have a huge heated grooming room with kitchen attached to my house that my others spend a bit more time in when I have pups. ( generally 1 litter a year)  The dogs would have had the good old scrub and dip before coming into the house. Even at that there is approx 20 foot and 2 doors  between them and the pups.

OTT maybe I don't know, but that is what I do.  I don't got to training or dog shows etc either when I have pups.   I wouldn't forgive myself if they were exposed to something.

> I have a huge heated grooming room with kitchen attached to my house that my others spend a bit more time in when I have pups. ( generally 1 litter a year)  The dogs would have had the good old scrub and dip before coming into the house. Even at that there is approx 20 foot and 2 doors  between them and the pups.

I'd love to have that luxury - sadly my deprived, daily walked dogs all live in 4 downstairs rooms of my house.  My girls (and cats) all huddle together on sofas and dog beds 365 days a year so when the one who has been chosen to provide me with a child of hers to campaign, they tend not to like being seperated from her 'sisters'.  I listen to HER - if she wants her 'sisters' around then she has them.  It's all dealt with in common sense - they aren't left alone together or if mum is upset by them being there, then they leave...this is very rare though...in fact has not happened since the litter detailed in my post above.

You'll probably all gasp in horror that at whelping time too, as I allow them to have their babies wherever they feel like (obviously supervised).  We then gravitate to the whelping box and usually the last few are born in there.  Cats and dogs are all around as long as mum is happy - my most recent litter was whelped with my girl kissing the cat in celebration after each pup was born as she was sat on the side of the whelping box watching.

I don't care any less for my babies than any of you do for yours - they're all precious - we all just do things differently, freedom of choice and all that.

I think I took Ellie just to the end of the road and back once they were about 2 weeks old, then washed and dried her feet and tummy before she was allowed back with them. If your girl isn't desperate to get out, don't worry about walks though. One of my boys loves puppies and was always trying to get in with the puppies, so again I made sure his feet and tummy were cleaned if he wanted a cuddle with the pups. And I think I moved back upstairs when they were about 10 days old, but I sleep very poorly and was downstairs 2 or 3 times in the night to check on them. We also had a webcam and friends from America who would cheerfully spend their days watching puppies (one was going to be theirs!) while we slept, and they could have contacted us in an emergency like puppies disappearing under mats. We only had 2 puppies and they were big ones, so by the time they were 10 days or 2 weeks old there was no danger of my girl squashing them by mistake, trust me! :-)

Oh yes! That's just what my Miley is like. An angel in the crate. Sooooooo mischievous when she's out but looks at you with those big brown eyes as if to say What? Am I not allowed?! lol

I treat mine in a similar way to you Blue.  The dam doesn't mix with the other dogs, certainly doesn't leave the home and when the others go out.  The others walk through a foot bath and are sprayed with parvocide on return, the same as any human visitors to the house.  I've never had a bitch want to go out with the others because she enjoys her extra maternal privilges. 

Over kill maybe, but I've never had sickly pups or any of the problems that we so frequently read about.

> Cats and dogs are all around as long as mum is happy - my most recent litter was whelped with my girl kissing the cat in celebration after each pup was born as she was sat on the side of the whelping box watching.
>

The one thing I decided long ago......I would allow my bitches total privacy when whelping...no dogs, cats or other people around.
Just me (for safety) and her.

I've turned down several requests to watch one of my whelpings because I feel that it's my duty to give this 'right' to my bitches.

I'm not saying this is right and you are wrong - but none of my bitches have been comfortable even hearing another dog around, let alone in the whelping room.
I do let them deliver their pups virtually anywhere in the house, on my bed, sofa or on my lap if need be. 

> Over kill maybe, but I've never had sickly pups or any of the problems that we so frequently read about.

Not over kill if you deem it necessary...but neither have I had sickly pups or problems and I have incredibly relaxed rules compared to virtually everyone writing on this thread.

>neither have I had sickly pups or problems and I have incredibly relaxed rules compared to virtually everyone writing on this thread.

Nor me. All puppies born have lived to adulthood. (I also allowed my own precious baby to mix with people before he'd had any vaccinations of his own ... )

With mine they whelp upstairs in my bedroom, where the pups stay for the first three weeks. All other canine and feline members of the family are kept away and whelping is usually assisted by just myself with maybe my partner to help if needed.

Mum isnt bothered with walks and I prefer her to stay on the property. Nipples/feet are washed on return from the garden.

Human family members and visits from friends are allowed if the bitch is comfortable with it, from a few days after the birth. Shoes are removed and hands washed before going upstairs. From three weeks the pups are downstairs in a pen and we have regular visitors to help with socialising. Obviously the other dogs get to sniff through the mesh (once the initial interest has died down, they return to normal and act as if the pups are always there!)

Everyone is different though! :-D

I have same set up as you punut,with I added thing ,from 4 weeks puppy pen is open and mum can visit and she does,other dogs know not to go in .Others have a sniff especially their older sister and have had no sick pups. Their area for pee is in my kitchen and puppies come out of pen to run to loo.They keep pen clean anduse as play and sleeping area during day.Mum usually doesn`t want walked until weaning is well under way and all dogs are cleaned before the are allowed near pups.

> Funny how everyone is different in their regime...some people I know even spray folk over with virocide

I know that I saw one of the trainers at ringcraft spray herself before she went home to her litter.  I haven't even been to ringcraft since my litter was born, it is not a risk that I was prepared to take.  Last one goes tomorrow, so I will be having a grizzle.

> The one thing I decided long ago......I would allow my bitches total privacy when whelping...no dogs, cats or other people around.
> Just me (for safety) and her.
>

Something I do feel strongly about.  I wouldn't want a roomful of dogs sniffing round me while I was whelping (said tongue in cheek.)  Once they go into labour, I find that mine don't want me messing around and moving them to the whelping box.  So, all other dogs out of the way.  They do have me running round in circles wondering where they will choose though.

One girl objected every time I wanted to move her from under the radiator in the living room.  Crouched down, bent double at my age!  Lovely green staining on the pale carpet, but it was time that it came up any way!  Another, obviously mindful of my advancing years, wanted it to happen on the sofa.  Another in the whelping room, but not in a box please.  I just threw a duvet on the floor and laid down with her. 

I just feel that my bitches appear agitated if any other dogs are around.  I know they object strongly to another dog walking past the whelping box for quite some weeks, so I just don't let it happen.  As to exercise, I literally have to carry mine down the garden, and they are demented  as they race back to return to their charges.  I find that they will stay out longer in the garden once they are ready, and let them be the judge of when that will be.  I have more than enough secure space for me to play with mum if she wants exercise.