Hi, I'm new to the forum and wondered if anyone had any advice.  I have a working cocker spaniel puppy, aged 4 months.  We have had her 3 weeks now and from the start had problems with soft stools.  She was being fed Purina Beta by the guy we got her from and during the first week with us her stools went from softish to having blood and mucous in - obviously not good!  I did a little research and decided to change to a more natural diet and thought Burns would be suitable, plus they were very helpful when I spoke to them on the phone.  They suggested well-cooked rice and boiled or scrambled egg until her digestion had settled and then a gradual introduction to Burns.  Her stools firmed up on the home cooked diet and were ok when we started introducing Burns, but now solely on Burns her stools are becoming quite soft again.

She scoffs her food in about 10 seconds and always seems hungry.  Her worming is up to date.  I am adding half a scrambled egg to each meal at the moment and that seems to help, but what is the long term solution?  I would ideally like to be able to feed her a commercially produced food supplemented with scraps or raw food.  We eat healthily at home and so for example last night had lamb, rice and veg which presumably she could have?  How do you know how much to feed them if home cooked or raw?  She is also prone to eating her poo and also stones, wood etc.

Can anyone recommend the best way to get her stools more solid and then a good feeding regime going forward?

Thanks in advance,

Jo

She was being fed Purina Beta by the guy we got her from and during the first week with us her stools went from softish to having blood and mucous in - obviously not good!
She is also prone to eating her poo and also stones, wood etc.

Have you taken her to the vets yet for a general check up? Something as simple as a change in environment, water etc can have an effect on a pup's digestive system. Are all her injections etc up to date and has she been out where other dogs go as some infections and diseases are still transmittable even if there is no direct contact. There could also be the possibility of something stuck if she eats 'other things'.

hope this helps

When one of my pugs was a puppy he had soft stools with blood and mucus.  The vet said it was colitus, I think he was given AB's and a bland prescription diet until he firmed up.  After that we found another food which suited him better. HTH :)

Burns doesn't suit all dogs so you might find that a switch to another food such as Arden Grange/James WellBeloved (JWB)
Healthy Paws etc will help with the hunger.
Which Burns are you feeding? It might be she's slightly intolerant of certain food types.

Thanks for all your helpful advice.  She's on Burn's Mini Bites (chicken-based) at the moment.  I just went to the vet's to get her second set of jabs and have come away with a load of stuff!:

Anti-dandruff shampoo as she's pretty flaky
Hills ID prescription food
Probiotic powder
Metronidazole 200mg (to settle her tummy)
Panacur wormer

Hopefully this will help if she has got colitis or will at least settle her tummy down.  Once I've got through the prescription food I will slowly switch back to Burns or Arden Grange.  Does anyone know if a moist diet is easier to digest?  The other thing I thought of doing (and Burns said this would be ok) was to feed her their puppy high energy food, which is lamb-based so would help with the hunger and in case she does have a problem with chicken.

We'll see anyway and I'll report back on progress.

Thanks again,

Jo

(what does AB's stand for by the way lunamoona?)

does she have a rash on her belly ? sometimes a reaction to certain foods can come out this way plus the loose mucousy poos.
she may be wheat intolerant , one of my girls reacts in this way to james well beloved . I feed Arden Grange with no problems.
Are you feeding the correct quantity as over feeding ie : the amount of food companies suggest for weight/age etc can be excessive usually its around half that amount they actually require , this can also cause loose stools.
so a lot of things for you to consider .
if you wish to feed raw here is a good website with  lots of information http://home.earthlink.net/~pawsreflect/nutrition.html

AB mean antibiotics

plus I personally wouldnt worm her until her stomach settles unless of course your vet thinks she may have worms.

> (what does AB's stand for by the way lunamoona?)

Oops, sorry, I was being lazy. I meant anti-biotics :)

I've just looked up metronidazole and its an antibiotic:

"Metronidazole is an antibiotic which is commonly used to treat protozoal infections and anaerobic bacterial infections. It also has anti-inflammatory effects in the bowel"

So I suppose if she had giardia or something it would clear that up.

She hasn't got a rash on her tummy but I'm still suspicious of intolerences (I have been through it all with my toddler who has eczema!) so will see how it goes, probably try Arden Grange when she's finished on the prescription diet and post an update.  I have been feeding her the recommended amount of Burns which is only 100g per day,  it seems such a little and she's so ravenous but I haven't increased it because I know that overfeeding can cause tummy upsets.  I didn't realise even the recommended amount could though...the instructions on the prescription food say between 90 and 120g for her weight so I think I'll keep her on 100g as I have been.

In due course once everything has settled down I may try a raw diet but I think practically speaking (as I said I have a toddler - 2.5yrs and another due in May!) I will use a commercially prepared food supplemented with dinner scraps etc. where they are suitable.  With raw, I was cooking spag bol last night and thought that I would be able to give her some raw mince before I cooked it (obviously not now but when her tummy has settled) and just reduce the amount of her regular dinner.  Would this work i.e. giving scraps and raw bits ad hoc or do you really need to go the whole hog (pardon the pun!) with raw?

Thanks for the advice on the wormer too, although she's given me a different one this time to pick up any other parasites so couldn't this be what is causing the problem with her digestion?  She is still a bit skinny and bloaty, and a few people have said she looks wormy because of this and her coat (sticks out, dry) - could equally be that she is just not digesting her food properly though I guess.

> Hi, I'm new to the forum and wondered if anyone had any advice.  I have a working cocker spaniel puppy, aged 4 months.  We have had her 3 weeks now and from the start had problems with soft stools.  She was being fed Purina Beta by the guy we got her from and during the first week with us her stools went from softish to having blood and mucous in - obviously not good!  I did a little research and decided to change to a more natural diet and thought Burns would be suitable, plus they were very helpful when I spoke to them on the phone.  They suggested well-cooked rice and boiled or scrambled egg until her digestion had settled and then a gradual introduction to Burns.  Her stools firmed up on the home cooked diet and were ok when we started introducing Burns, but now solely on Burns her stools are becoming quite soft again.

Hi Jo

I can relate to your story 100%. When I bought my puppy Fozzie home aged 9 weeks(he's 14 wks now) he too had terrible diarrhea and was also on Beta Puppy.I took him to the vets and he was prescribed antibiotics & he was also put on a 7 day course of panacur for Giardia. However he still had diarrhea,the only time it stopped was when he was on the I/D diet from the vets or on plain boiled fish & rice. This went on all over Xmas. Every time I introduced a commercial food he had bad runs with blood and mucous. By process of elimination we wondered if he had an intolerance to Chicken(he was also itchy) so I put him of a Fish & Potato diet called Fish4puppies..within 24 hrs he was firm. After he was on this for approx 2 weeks I started to introduce raw food. I started with one meal a day and bit the bullet and gave him chicken & tripe. He has never looked back.Every motion is lovely and firm and he is at long last starting to put on a little weight..he is still thin but its coming.
So I suggest you maybe ask your vet about Giardia and then try the fish diet..if everything clears up you can then do as I did and try some home prepared food.

i had a dog that was the same we put her on a food from pets at home it was fish and potato she couldnt have rice the stools became harder and her coat became so shiny

Thanks for the further advice guys.  I'm happy to report that Holly is responding well to whatever the vet gave us (not sure what though!)  I started the treatment and new food straight away (Friday lunchtime) and by Saturday morning her stools were firm and have been ever since.  I'll see how it goes and finish the Hills ID before I try introducing anything else.

Rosieison - do you know any good raw food resources?  I was thinking of doing a fairly ad hoc approach with a mixure of good quality commercial and raw meat/cooked table scraps.

The Hills ID is chicken-based so I wouldn't have thought it was a chicken intolerence.  It could be the food, the Panacur, the antibiotics or the probiotic that is helping (maybe all of them!)  Doubt its the Panacur though, as I didn't start that until Saturday lunch...anyway if it continues like this who cares as long as I can find a long-term food that agrees with her.

Jo

>> Rosieison - do you know any good raw food resources?  I was thinking of doing a fairly ad hoc approach with a mixure of good quality commercial and raw meat/cooked table scraps.
>
> The Hills ID is chicken-based so I wouldn't have thought it was a chicken intolerance.  It could be the food, the Panacur, the antibiotics or the probiotic that is helping (maybe all of them!)  Doubt its the Panacur though, as I didn't start that until Saturday lunch...anyway if it continues like this who cares as long as I can find a long-term food that agrees with her

Firstly the Hills I/D tins that I had were definitely only turkey based ! are you sure the dry is chicken? That seems strange??

I buy nearly all my raw food from AMP at the moment. The food quality is good and they are reliable. I have also used Albion in the past as well. I then go to my local pet shops and but the Forthglade Meatie & tripe which my guys love. My butcher supplies me with marrow bones. I am a fairly lazy barfer. I prefer to feed minced foods( with bone in) as I worry about bones( see another thread on the forum) I tend to feed one meal of minced chicken or chicken /tripe and then one meal of one of the various complete raw ranges  to provide the offal/veg part of the diet,or else I use the Meatie & tripe and then add heart,liver,kidneys etc to that.I also add eggs,tinned fish,goats yoghurt,cottage cheese occasionally. AMP also now do a Veg mix which is also great to keep in the freezer.
I don't calculate much,I too have an ad hoc approach which some may think is terrible. I have been feeding this way on and off (mainly on) for about 8 years and my dogs look & act great and are very healthy.
I have just bought a new freezer so I am now able to stock up on more variety.I think that's the main thing..variety, and then everything will balance out over time.

HTH

I've checked the Hills ID ingredients and it is a mixture of chicken and turkey meal...

Thanks for the raw advice, sounds do-able and once Holly is settled on a non-prescription food (I'm going to try Arden Grange), I'll mix in a little Nature's Menu and then move on to some raw food instead.  Is the Nature's Menu range raw?  What other complete raw ranges are there?

Do you add raw egg btw?

Thanks again,

Jo

> Thanks for the raw advice, sounds do-able and once Holly is settled on a non-prescription food (I'm going to try Arden Grange), I'll mix in a little Nature's Menu and then move on to some raw food instead.  Is the Nature's Menu range raw?  What other complete raw ranges are there?
>
> Do you add raw egg btw?

Hi Jo

Natures menu do a cooked and raw range. They have quite a few raw complete ranges now.Check out their website.
Yes I do add raw egg.

Rosie

Just thought I'd post another update...

Holly's digestion has improved a lot on the Hills I/D although she's sometimes still a little soft (my DP often gives her extras I think which doesn't help).  Coming to the end of the 2kg bag after almost 2 weeks of a more settled tum I thought it was time to wean her onto a puppy food.  Arden Grange had sent me some samples and so on Wednesday I mixed in a small handful of it (90/10) with each feed.  All seemed ok so on Thursday I increased it to 80/20.  Well this morning she had pooed in her crate overnight the poor thing and then she had mucousy stools with a bit of blood in when she first went outside so it looks like something in the Arden Grange didn't agree with her.

Now wondering if it is chicken she has a problem with, as Arden Grange is chicken-based.  Anyway, popped up to the vet and bought some more I/D (bit of an ouch though at £15 for 2kg!) and some probiotics.  Guess we have to go back to this for a couple of weeks and then I'll try a lamb/rice or Fish4Dogs instead.

Really hope this doesn't continue, though, as we've switched onto a permanent insurance policy after the initial 6 weeks free with Kennel Club and I'm worried any further treatment will be excluded as a pre-existing condition...

She's still a bit skinny but quite big for her size I think so maybe just lanky!

Jo

Another update on Holly - she settled back down on the Hills I/D and probiotic so I started introducing Fish 4 Puppies last Friday bit by bit.  Today is her first day on 100% Fish 4 Puppies and she seems to be doing really well.  I'll continue with the probiotics certainly until the tub runs out but fingers crossed she'll be able to continue without any problems on this food.  Her stools are now pretty much perfect and she loves the food (well she loves all food!) and has filled out a bit - her coat is so glossy now too!  Big thumbs up for Fish 4 Dogs!

Jo

glad to hear your girl now doing well. Good luck, I might try fish 4 dogs for my two cockers - They'll eat anything so won't be a problem !!!!