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Topic Dog Boards / Behaviour / getting a dog to come back!
- By sa_curd [de] Date 10.11.02 17:38 UTC
Our Jack Russell is 16 weeks old and is really on the whole very well behaved. He is attending puppy classes for socialisation with other dogs and for a little bit of fun on an agility course. However, when he is out and off the lead playing with other dogs in an area where dogs are allowed to run free, he somehow becomes owner deaf and will not always come back when he is called. We are currently trying to train him to a whistle to see if it will cut through his play and just distract him long enough to hear us, however I'm not sure if this is the way forward.
He will come back when called whenever we are out, but not when he is around other dogs. Any tips anyone?
- By John [gb] Date 10.11.02 19:12 UTC
Number one:- A whistle does not have any mysterious properties, without training to whistle your puppy will not have a clue what it is suppose to mean!

Number two:- Agility is in my opinion not a good idea for a puppy for two reasons. One, at 16 weeks old the bones are not up to that kind of exercise and you could well cause damage to the hips and shoulders. (I work Labradors and would never start a puppy jumping until a year to 18 months old. and the second reason:- Agility is an exciting thing and not a "control" type of thing, (Particularly at an early age.)

The fact that he comes when other dogs are not around is great and possibly the best you are going to get at that age. Maturity comes with age. Try not to call when you know it is not going to be obeyed. All that does is train that commands can be disobeyed without anything happening. Certainly at 16 weeks he would have no idea of doing wrong by not coming so any discipline would only confuse it. The discipline could only happen after he came to you so the perceived reason for the discipline would be that it must be for coming to you!

Really it’s a matter of not being able to put an old head on young shoulders.

Regards, John
- By Dallover [gb] Date 11.11.02 02:20 UTC
Hi, rewards are the answer. Remember though to count as food and reduce food if necessary to stop obesity.

I agree with other answers about the age of the dog, a bit young for intense training. The type of breed is not an indication of the dogs training abilities.

When indoors call the dog, when he comes to you treat immediately. Repeat this using the same call signal whether it be a whistle, name or whatever when ever you call him to you over the next few months. Be consistant at all times.

He will soon figure out that your call = treat and will come when outdoors eventually without a treat, purely out of habit and a willingness to please. Never ever punish, never works. I do nothing without incentive, IE work = pay so why should another being.

Hope this helps

Jackie
- By eoghania [de] Date 10.11.02 20:08 UTC
I agree with John...
Please remember your dog is a very young puppy who is a terrier breed. JRT's are known for their independence in the first place... and in the second place, puppies have little control over impulses. That's why they're puppies, and not 'adults' ;) :D :D :)
Seriously, your expectations are a bit much for his age and his breed. :) Similar to his bladder not developed enough, neither is his maturity to be completely and fully trained by 6 months. Just keep working on the fun stuff and realize he won't return if there's other 'stuff' for quite a while. So just be proactive :)
I mean this in all kindness and I wouldn't be surprised to see someone pop up and claim their 'puppy' is perfect in all behavioral aspects. There's always the exception to the rule ;) :D
good luck,
toodles :cool:
- By Craigy [gb] Date 10.11.02 21:50 UTC
Contrary to other advice on the page, this is not age or breed related. Why should an adult JRT return to you if your puppy wont? Hours and hours of basic dog training. Seek proffessional help from a dog trainer about recall training. Your dog should be learning to return to you on command despite destractions. Teach it now before he teaches his self that he only has to return when there are no distractions.
- By dollface Date 10.11.02 21:59 UTC
What I was told in class was to keep the pup on a long leash and call them, if they don't come bring them into you and treat, praise then let them go and play. Do this a couple of times through out the day. Even keep them on lead when they are playing with other dogs so when you do the recall you can make them come, praise/treat and let them play again. Do that a couple of times before you leave. This way they won't associate that being called everytime means that playtime is over. Only call them once and make it sound happy and exciting, because if not why would they want to come, then bring them in. Hope I was of some help
- By John [gb] Date 10.11.02 22:17 UTC
Of course the puppy needs training Craigy. As you are a canine consultant I'd be interested in hearing how you would carry out this training?

John
- By eoghania [de] Date 11.11.02 07:36 UTC
Craigy,
:) You have the right to your opinions, just like I have the right to mine :) But I have a feeling that you believe a dog is a dog is a dog and that there are no behavioral and instinctive differences between dog breeds. An example could be between a Labrador Retriever and a Jack Russell Terrier. There is. But I've had that discussion before. Let's just agree to disagree on it. :)

I didn't say anything about "trainability". Terriers are smart, damn smart, in my book. Very easily trained. But many do not like rote training and can be unreliable for instant obedience throughout their lives. The smarter the animal is, the less likely will do blind obedience :D :D

Obviously, you believe that a 16 week old dog should be just as reliable, once shown, as an adult dog. You also believe a Jack Russell Terrier will be the same as any other breed. Hmm. Yep...we're on opposite sides of the fence here. But that's ok, as long as the original poster realizes there is no absolute wrong/right in dog training and that opinions abound.

I agree with the eventual schooling for obedience, but I don't think that it's as dire as you make it out to be. Puppy classes start around 4-6 months and they're not intense as a regular class would be. Serious training at such a young age isn't necessary and can cause burnout.
Many dogs don't have perfect recall, especially as puppies. It doesn't really matter if the dog is kept leashed in public. :) It's not cruel and it's not tragic :rolleyes:
:cool:
- By mattie [gb] Date 11.11.02 18:24 UTC
Why should this Pup need proffessional help? are you assuming that people are not able to train on their own by coupling together kind training methods and sound useful advice ?are we in such a quick fix age that we must seek proffesional help with such a young puppy?
Part of the fun of owning a puppy is learning together about how to get on and form a partnership,surely recommended a training Club/class would be better where everyone can have the benefit and more to the point enjoyment.
- By aoife [gb] Date 10.11.02 23:13 UTC
very short and sweet and basic, do all training of recall on long leash,when calling if no response just reel the dog in, keep doing this until they know to come with little or no effort of you reeling them in, always praise when they return to you even if it takes a while for them to respond,regards tina
- By Craigy [gb] Date 11.11.02 11:41 UTC
I merely mentioned that one can not expect a recall reliably with out hours of obedience training in various locations and with many distractions present. Nor did I say that there are no breed differences when training, of course there are, but one should not be making excuses for no recall.... as for keeping the dog permanantly on a lead I feel is cruel. One should build a good relationship with the dog, invest in a good deal of training using praise and reward. The main importance is safety. Every one should be able to recall their dog instantly to prevent him running on to roads, chasing other animals and being unruly.
- By eoghania [de] Date 11.11.02 18:11 UTC
'as for keeping the dog permanantly on a lead I feel is cruel.'

Yeah, I know this is a common view in the UK. It doesn't surprise me that you believe this. Leash Laws are very strict in the US cities and suburbs. Many dogs live happy lives never experiencing life off of the leash. That's just the way things are. :rolleyes: Not cruel at all and definitely better than being hit by a car or dealing with hazards of cities. :(

I think we both are misunderstanding the intent of one another's printed words. :) You think I"m saying that recall is unimportant and excusable. I think that you're being unrealistic expecting a 4 month old dog to be completely reliable.
Sure it takes patience and practice, but take into consideration the puppy's age for dependability and focus. I don't know how you can argue with this....but let's just agree to disagree. :)

I believe the original poster has gotten help from everyone's suggestions on here and that's the most important result either of us could hope for :)
:cool:
- By Craigy [gb] Date 11.11.02 18:33 UTC
I was not saying that this dog should be 100% reliable and yes, here in England it is quite unacceptable to keep a dog on a lead for 15 years. As for saying that they dont miss what they have never had, what rubbish! I've never driven a ferrari, but I know that I would like to. Perhaps you are right, lets agree to disagree.
- By pinklilies Date 11.11.02 23:03 UTC
craigy,
I really would be happier if you could avoid the "in england " bit. It implies that you are speaking for the rest of us....your opinions are your own, not necessarily that of "England". whether we agree with you or not, on any given topic, we can speak for ourselves, and may well do so a little more politely.
- By Craigy [gb] Date 11.11.02 23:07 UTC
I am in England. You think I am rude? Not rude, Passionate. Something maybe you need?
- By dot [gb] Date 12.11.02 00:54 UTC
Oh Craigy :D :D :D

Laughing at you has really cheered me up.:D :D I've only skimmed over your posts today but you've definitely given me plenty entertainment. :D
I love how you describe yourself as passionate. :D :D :D That gives me the biggest laugh of all. You obviously have no perception whatsoever as to how you come across in your posts and I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but Passionate you ain't :D :D :D

Rude, arrogant - Yes but Passionate - No. Sorry to disillusion you:( Maybe instead of advocating animal behaviourists you'd get more benefit from visiting a human behaviourist.:D :D
Dot
- By eoghania [de] Date 12.11.02 06:10 UTC
Dot, usually he's very ANTI-behavioralist and blames them for all the evils in the world of dogdom. I think he tried to 'disguise' himself from the board by changing his persona, but blood will always tell ;) :)
:cool:
- By tangle [gb] Date 12.11.02 16:17 UTC
Have a feeling HE might be SHE Seems to kmow the benefits of false finger nails. tangle
- By eoghania [de] Date 11.11.02 23:15 UTC
Pink,
Ignore him, he's an old troll come back to haunt us. He'll get rude, then he'll vanish into the woodwork again :P
I guess he's learned a new word that he's trying out everywhere --- 'passion'. Obviously not working, since it's being misused.
I think he'll try to get obnoxious on various threads and see how many he can have admin lockdown/delete in one night. It's a pattern. He's done it before. Guess he's bored again :rolleyes:
:cool:
- By mari [ie] Date 12.11.02 00:12 UTC
Sara .
passion Lol ;)tantrums more like
- By sa_curd [de] Date 11.11.02 18:01 UTC
Thankyou so much for your responses. I didn't realise I was going to cause so much controversy.
The agility is basically going up and down a ramp, and along a thinnish plank, which the dog really loves. The vet has x-rayed him to ensure his bones are developping properly and will continue to monitor him as he grows, however at the moment he is developping completely normally - if there is such a thing.
Thankyou for all your advice. We are trying to use the whistle, followed by the word and signal for come, which has been really effective over the past few days. He is enjoying the training we give him and always seems excited to learn a new command, especially when food is involved. We have found that his current favourite treat is a piece of carrot, which will entice him to do almost everything.
We have got an extender lead abd so will certainly use it for recall training as you have suggested.
Thankyou all again for your replies, it's great to be able to get sich a range of advice all at once.
- By eoghania [de] Date 11.11.02 18:15 UTC
You're welcome :) :)
Oh, no controversy at all by your question. It's what happens where there's a range of opinions on a variable subject such as dog training :) There's more than one way to skin a cat on here ;) :)
good luck with your puppy. It sounds as if you're keeping him busy which is what JRT's do need to be happy :)
best wishes,
toodles :cool:
Topic Dog Boards / Behaviour / getting a dog to come back!

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