I really dont know where to start or what help to ask for....but maybe someone will have an idea!?
Let me start by saying I have a cousin, whom I havent seen in about 15 years and I get regular news bulletins on what goes on in her rather colourful life in the city, but i really have nothing whatsoever to do with her or her family. She lives at home caring for her disabled father, and she works full time. Her father has a bulldog, 5 years old. breeding unknown and from the photos I saw of it a few years ago....not something youd be too proud of!! Anyway she rang my mum last night to find out my phone number (we havent spoken in 15 years or so) because she needed to speak to me about her bulldog....she didnt know wherelse to turn..... and said that this bulldog is pregnant. About 50 days according to vet. they had no idea she was in season (whats "in season?" they said) Grrrr. and no idea who father is although she has had a friends staffy x pitbull (sic) staying for a few months grrr again! However i understand she allowed to wander in the culdesac for 20 minutes aday so anyone could be father in reality. I know how this is all sounding and you can imagine how angry i was bout whole thing. well long and short is that the vet has given them a sound rollicking and told them that she will probably die if she goes into labour and that she wlil need a caesar....and there is a good chance due to her awful obesity she will die anyway. And what about the puppies???? Well my cousin seems to think that some miracle vet will whisk away the bitch, remove the puppies to la la land and return the bitch good as new. I am ata loss as to what to say to her (after my initial explosive rant)....do i look for someone to try and rear these possible pups? Do I suggest the vet culls them...would a london vet even do such a thing? They are in no position to have a litter at home or care for it....they are completely clueless about dog ownership, So really im fishing for ideas on what advise to give her....she is scared witless the dog will die (despite her unbelievable naievity they do actually love the dog!)

so does she want to rear the puppies at all? if so she could try and be a fast learner, read the books etc, otherwise im not sure.i dont think any of the vets i know would be too happy about euathanasing newborn puppies, is it possible to spay her and pts the puppies then? whilst they are under the affects of anaesthesia? poor little mites, they dont stand a chance :(

no suz....no possible chance. She works 8-4 and her father is disabled and can barely rais his hands let alone do anything :( :( The vet reckons 50-55 days old (how he can say this i have no idea!!) so would def be a cull rather than an abortion of imature foetus :( :( Cant begin to say how angry i am....but my mum wants me to try and help so I am. :(

A London vet might be willing to cull esp if the poss pitbull link. Try getting her to phone battersea dogs home or another local shelter such as the mayhew. They may be inclined to help. Might be worth stressing that these puppies could come under the dda.

jill

its a rubbish situation to put you in :( i dont envy you. if she cant care for them i would go for the spay and pts of the puppies :( in this climate no rehoming centre will take them, and most fosterers will be full. other option is to ask at the veterinary practice and see if some kind hearted nurse would hand rear them, but all this would achieve is more unwanted cross puppies, and potential problems with handreared puppies. did the vet say how many he thought there were?

Gordon Bennett. What did they think the 3 weeks of bleeding twice a year was I wonder........ Sounds like the only solution is to cull the pups, but I feel sorry for the bitch -would have been nicer for her to get to keep ONE. And Joe Public say it's us show breeders that cause our dogs to suffer.......... :( Sorry, no advice at all as I can't see any rescue taking the bitch and one pup and letting the owner have her back later.

if she cant care for them i would go for the spay and pts of the puppies"

I agree, cant they spay the bitch, and pts the puppies, nobody will want to take a pregnant bulldog on, esp with there health problems, the bitch as you said will prob have to have  a caeser, so spay her at the same time!

this has really upset me.thinking about culling puppies,i didnt think it was done anymore.if i were you id look around for someone who has a bitch who has lost puppies but has milk to give! what about bottle feeding them and raising them.you cant put them to sleep this isnt theyre fault.your cousin needs to get her speyed  under c section and let her dog(if you cant find anyone to take pups)have her puppies.she might have to give up her dog for as long as it takes til the puppies are fully weaned and then have the dog back.if this was me id look for someone to take the bitch and pups on and see what arrangements can be sorted out.please dont sdvise her to cull the puppies.no matter what breed im sure there are actually some people out there who can help??i have a bitc h who is due around the same time,if she doesnt have a large litter id be willing to take puppies on and bottle feed them!!!my dog i know for sure would mother them,she mothered my ducklings last spring for goodness sake lol.and i mean mothered them she cleaned them the lot!
someome must be able to help.

I think her best vet to to see hat advise her vet will offer re what the options are at this stage.  i think a cull will be the kidnest thing, better then the poor souls not having a home...

> However i understand she allowed to wander in the culdesac for 20 minutes aday so anyone could be father in reality

How on earth has this poor girl not been subjected to this in the past!! The spey seems like the best choice, she is in danger if she is left to try to bring these pups into the world naturally and at risk under an anesthetic!! I dont know what to say apart from repeating your "Grrrrrrr" Sorry im no help.

i agree tamara, the thought of culling puppies is awful and it shouldnt need to be done anymore, however, in this situation it ay be best, the puppies are going to potentially end up in the wrong hands with the type they are. the rescue centres are absolutly inundated with puppies and dogs with this damn "credit crunch" and theres not enough homes to go about. do you really want some puppies to spend half their lives in a miserable wee kennel and potentially be pts when they are a year or so old? its awful and its upsetting to think about, but think of the puppies. who realistically is going to take on a pregnant bitch, rear the puppies and then hand them all back at end of it? unfortunately theres not many people like that around, and those who are are probably already rearing puppies.

You got in before I did Tamara.Why cull kill murder the puppies ?Whould you be saying this if litter was pedigree?Help for litter will come if you look for it.I don`t agree with killing of pups unless the health of said pup will kill it certainly not because its a Hienz 57.Shame on you lot who are thinking culling ,killing is right.

the owner is not prepared to look after the pups, regardless of pedigree it would seem :( i dont think its because they are crossbreeds.

The vet has already said the bitch may well die, overweight, not knowing the sire etc, etc, no-one to rear a litter in any case, what are they waiting for, I don't even understand why they have phoned you Sam, I can understand why you are upset, my advice would be, get the bitch in a.s.a.p for a c-section and euthanaize the pups immediately.  The bitch is far more important, why are they still waiting? What exactly are they even waiting for? There is no other answer.

Its a shame, But what else could anyone do that will guarantee a long and happy life for these poor pups! Who knows what health issues alone will face them in the future. Im really against a cull too but cannot for the life of me think what could be done :(

Carrington, I am whole heartidly behind your comments. This poor girl is the number one.

I wasn`t talking about owners I was commenting on others who agree killing the litter is only solution.

Morag, What else can realistically be done that will offer these pups a happy, healthy, safe, problem free & long life?????? & give the mum a life without these complications in the future, thats if she gets through the anesthetic with the condition she is in. Sorry. Its hard but this is not murder, its compassion.

no im sorry im not buying it! this is ridiculous! they are babies plenty of dogs live in good homes with health problems.bulldogs are bred everyday by people with double the gene of BAD  health.so why the hell are these puppies not being thought of as PUPPIES??
look i can see how your all seeing it ....the long run but how hard can it be to find 6-8 decent homes for puppies free to a good home.come on if vetted correctly i know there must be some people out there willing to take on a puppy without papers.
what your all advising is cruel.

> so why the hell are these puppies not being thought of as PUPPIES??

I think people are very much thinking of them as puppies, not humans, not babies but animals.  Animals deserve our care and consideration of their welfare rather than an ethical obligation to preserve life at all cost.  Their welfare looks very uncertain.  Their mothers life looks at risk even bringing them into world.  Her owners appear unwilling or incapable of rearing them and they have no certainty of good quality homes at this time not to mention if their heritage is pit bull whether they are even legal.

its not the lack of papers, its the fact there is no-one able to care for these puppies, the owner is not willing to do it, theres no-one to handrear. puppies will be due in a week or so, the rescue homes and fosterers are already swamped with unwanted puppies and dogs with the current climate. the father is unknown he could be anything, dog will probably need c-section to deliver. peple who take on puppies that are free are not normally those who can care for puppies, harsh but true. these puppies face a grim existance. its awful and i dont usually agree to things like this and am not doing so lightly. i dont think its fair to put upon rescue centres and ask them to take bitch away, raise puppies and then hand bitch back at end? thats hardly fair on them and their resources is it?

I am not going to get into any arguements but there are thousands of dogs in shelters that need good homes too, its not just about homes for these pups, its what the future holds for them, Its not about Pedigree, I own Heinz 57 babies too. Its about all the issues that these pups will face in the future. I can fully understand your thoughts and I symphatise with them, however, the REAL picture is that no-one knows what risk these pups will be in and what the future holds. The mum is at risk now, and this should be addressed now.

Is the vet aware that the dad is almost certainly a pit bull type cross?  If so then I wonder if the DDA would come into it and obligate him to cull the litter?

maybe your right about looking after the bitch and handing her back.i think i was typing so fast evrything was coming out so fast i was desperate to get this girl a solution.im gutted,i love all animals and i cant see why this has happened to start with.forgive me but who lets their dogs run around the estate unattended if they love theyre dog so much.im confused and very upset about thise puppies and now im really annoyed too.how often does this happen!
theres absolutly nothing i can do is there.
i cant belive it.those poor pups.and if the bitch dies.....it makes me so mad.
im sorry for jumping off at the deep end.i still dont agree with the culling though!

Seems a no win situation whatever way you look at it, I also doubt there would be enough really good homes for the pups, I adore all pups to but think these may well end up in a very bad situation given the breed the dad is thought to be, better they never have to go through that at all, sad as that thought is :-(

Dont Worry, its a natural reaction. I dont think that any of us on here would want this to happen, but unfortunately it has, & it has to be addressed in a manner which is the right thing to do for all concerned. I am desperately sorry for these pups too, but what choice is there.

Well if she roams on a culdesac then anything could and a few things may have gotten to her. Cant really tell because it would only be 1/4 pit, and its not really fair to condem them before their birth. I know there are thousands of unwanted pups and dogs, majority crossbreds and its unrealistic to save each and every dog BUT if it was me in sams situation id take the bitch and raise the puppies myself, get a voucher from PDSA and have the girl spayed once the pups are weaned. Its much easier to find homes for blank canvas pups than it is for possible dogs with issues and with sams vetting knowledge they wont end up in the wrong hands. As i am a huge dog lover, no matter the age, breed or deed i would do it and would enjoy it, any life is a blessing. Any money sam makes from these puppies can cover her costs and the rest donated to bulldog welfare. Im sure there would be homes out there for a bulldog cross cant get anything cuter than a bulldog puppy.

Louise

NOONE know the dad so dont condem them

Do you not have to be on benefits to get a voucher from the PDSA?

Well the owner has to care for her disabled father so would she not be elidgable? If not contact them see what they can do afterall its encouraged.

If profit is made from the sale of puppies that surely that should pay for the spay.

Yeh exactly, things can happen to help this girl.

Erm excuse me but Sam has a life of her own with her own dogs and work to consider aswell. She has just been through all the work that a well bred litter entails and to be expected to take on the care and look after the welfare of these animals is I think rather alot to ask.  This bitch is unfit and of a breed that is notobley bad for whelping problems there is at the moment no guarentee that she or any pups will survive any of this. The first course of action is to consult a vet and then consider following their advice.

And is this girl does need a ceasarian, who will pay for that if Sam takes her on? we all know how much the op can cost and if it is done in London its dearer still, all to be thought about.

Well said Gill, I did think it was a bit much suggesting that Sam has to take them on. I can't see any good solution for this girl and her pups. It appears as if her owner is fond of her so probably wouldn't be willing to hand her over to a rescue organisation. On her own she can't rear a litter, or even one pup so it would appear there is no option but to cull them. I find the whole story really sad, and to be honest I'm not sure I believe them about not knowing she was in season. It could be this is an excuse to mate her, if not why hasn't it happened before? Maybe the owner thought the bitch would just rear the pups herself while she was at work and then got scared when the vet started talking about health risks!

Just wanted to add I'm not sure about telling the vet they may be pitbull crosses - remember it's an pffence to breed pitbulls or pitbull crosses, Sams cousin may well find herself in trouble with the police!

Erm excuse me but Sam has a life of her own with her own dogs and work to consider aswell. 

:-) Totally agree, people seem to be forgetting just how much hard work rearing a litter from scratch is, (it's not fairytale) those of us planning a litter are walking around like zombies for the first couple of weeks, it's darn hard work, these pups at present are only 50ish days old, the bitch is unhealthy, overweight may well not even carry to full term, may collapse from pressure to her heart, or legs if she is too weighty, doubtfully would not deliver naturally, the pups are not fully developed at present although almost there, the bitch needs saving and other authorities or breeders don't need this unplanned litter plonking on their doorsteps, it's bad enough when a bitch dies during whelping finding surrogates or hand rearing, it's darn hard work and it is all unnecessary.

This poor bitch should not be put through any more, it's time for her owners to take care of her and not think of anything else.

Sam it's absolutely to your credit that you are willing to consider advising her, and family pressure can be the worst, but there is a real danger that your cousin will push the decision making responsibility in your direction isn't there? 

I'd be tempted to lay out the risks to the bitch, explain the possible choices they will have available to them, then get them to ask for confirmation of all this from the vet again.  Help them to make an informed decision by giving them some questions to ask if needs be, BUT make sure they understand this is their responsibility and their choice to make the right decisions for the welfare of their dog.

They've handled it badly so far and there is no guarantee that this will go well from anyones perspective but they really should make all the decisions and live with the consequences or they're not going to learn anything from this.

Poor bitch, and poor you. xxx

Trekkiemo, and all you others who are crying "shame" .....are YOU prepared to take on the raising of an unwanted litter AND keeping them all?  And deal with the resulting vet fees?   And what about homing the litter - if there is a chance that the sire could be a "pitbull" type, then the puppies too will be pitbull type - how would you propose finding suitable long-time homes for these puppies?

Put your actions where your mouths are!

if you read my post i did offer to take them on yes! and hand raise them.ive done it with kittens from birth i can do it with puppies.
We are crying SHAME because we are animal lovers as im sure you are too but just have different opinions of this situation.
as to finding loving homes for the puppies i dont think it would be as hard as you all expect.people are happier to take on a PUPPY with no history a clean slate if you like than rescues with no background.hand reared these pups could stand a VERY good chance if given to the right owners of having a wonderful life.i dont think the fact that they have pit in them is really a big enough reason to pts.if the mother herself was very poorly in life and the stud had problems in behaviour then i would be in two minds but just because it is a stereo typed dog doesnt mean these pups shouldnt be given a chance.im sorry just my opinion.i have dogs that are looked at in a bad way by most and it annoys me im sorry but i truely belive its how a dog is taught to behave.

Oh well just cull the puppies and spay the bitch.... :-O

Erm I AM aware its not a ''fairytale'' but its not the bitches or the puppies fault they didnt ask to be born she didnt ask to roam free and get caught. All im saying is that if was me in that situation id prepare myself, grin and bare it take the bitch on her owner cant raise them, she should face up to it take on the responsibility but cleary she hasnt got the skills or the sense to do so. She may only have just a week left and there is a chance of possible complication but there we go it happens. I have a life of my own and my own dogs to consider but to help out those in need id be prepared to make sacrifices. I know its alot to ask but personally i couldnt see the pups culled.

On another forum a Cav bitch was advertised for sale and several weeks pregnant quite far ahead, someone bought her (paid good money, hard earned cash) to save her from the situation she was in. And before you say, no it wasnt to make money, she was generally greatly interested in her welfare of her and the pups. She had her own litter on the go as well.........

Louise

exactly!

This bitch is going to be lucky to get through this herself let alone any puppies she needs to be spayed for her well being. Fit previously healthy bulldogs have died from heart failure at this stage into whelping without the added complications of being over weight mated by no ones knows what and without proper care for an in whelp bitch. The pups are not viable yet is it any fairer to put the bitches health under further strain and her wellbeing at further risk by making her carry on with this until the puppies may have a chance.

Poor dog, poor puppies :( 

However scared or ignorant this person may be, they had better wise up pretty quick or they could lose a much loved pet.  Can they not book time off work for at least a couple of weeks and take responsibility for their own pet?  It may not be easy and it may not be the most sucessful rearing of a litter but they can't just sit back and expect someone else to take over.  Guidance is one thing but they need to put in the work too.  Sorry to sound harsh but this is their dog and it should be them going out of their way to sort this out.  It's always the animals that pay for our mistakes :(

Those who wish this bitch to continue to full term, must remember that the majority of us on here would never contemplate breeding our bitches unless they were in tip top conditon, because bitches die even when healthy, to put a strain on the body of a bitch that is not at her peak healthwise just isn't something that should be condoned. Bulldogs are extremely difficult to breed they have so many complications which is why this is an even more precarious situation. I would never allow a bitch of mine to continue if her health was at risk - what kind of breeder is that? Accident or not the bitch comes first.

So, Tamara and Trekkie mo - are you proposing that this poor bitch - who is overweight and may be at risk herself - should continue to carry these pups to term - and then go through a c-section - and quite probably lose her own life?   This girl has a home - albeit a poor one - but the owners do "love her" - even if their care for her is pretty poor.

As I understand it, what the vet is proposing is a c-section/spay NOW - when the puppies are  approximately 50 days gestation - ie 13 days or so pre-term.   They will not at this stage be viable, so an injection will put paid to their suffering immediately.   It is not a happy situation, but imo, is the best chance for the bitch.  

It is becoming increasingly hard for some experienced breeders of well-bred, much wanted and planned litters to home all their puppies as they would have anticipated - how much harder will it be for the inexperienced owners of unwanted unplanned litters to find homes for puppies in the present economic climate?

Sad, sad, sad. :(

i agree Lokis mum. my good friend has bred a populr gundog breed, and still has 2 bitch puppes left at 13 weeks, thankfully has had interest for one of them. these are well bred, well raised puppies from a fit and healthy mum, and she has struggled to find homes, several people pulled out over money issues, and she declined 2 homes that werent quite good enough, so its not easy to always find homes. to advertise them as free to a good home would simply attract the wrong kind of homes, especially with the potential dogs involved.
i said before it is a horrible situation, and i feel heart sorry for the puppies, its not their fault, but at the moment they arent really aware of anything, surely thats better to go than to potentially sit in rehomeing kennels, be passed from pillar to post and end up with who knows what sort of future. :(

Sorry - I joined this thread originally to suggest that OP's cousin might get some help from the Celia Hammond organisation.   See www.celiahammond.org.

Although they concentrate on cats, they do also help with spaying/neutering dogs.

Why if thats the case has it not been done before it came to posters ears.,and the vet knowing how many days she is,I don`t buy that either .

I don`t think if its really the case that a bitch that is in that state should continue the pregnancy.A lot of people were too quick to say cull(kill) .This is a Vet and owner problem,surely the vet would have adviced to do it.The pregnancy is so far along possible 2 days from live pups ,some of you were seggesting if live pups produced they should be killed why? I cannot see that as humane or helping the bitch only the owner. 50-55 days.
I will take no further part in this sick thread .I will go and give my puppies a cuddle.

> On another forum a Cav bitch was advertised for sale and several weeks pregnant quite far ahead, someone bought her (paid good money, hard earned cash) to save her from the situation she was in

Louise,
the Cavalier bitch in whelp was in fact mated to another cavalier, by the puppy farmer, and had neither the problem of a sure-fire caesar nor the stigma of Bulldog x Pitbull type puppies to contend with in this financial crisis.

Sentimentality is no substitute for good sense and it is clear that the owners wont/cant cope with this situation, rescues are bursting at the seams and the bitch may lose her life over this.
Surely all this leads to the good sense path that many are advising...if this makes certain members upset then they are only thinking of themselves and not the poor dog IMO.