Aaah thanks Gembo,

To be honest though I am surprised more people don't put a lot of effort into researching the right breed and go about getting the best advice they can. I mean the health and happiness of the dog is at stake as well as the huge committment we are making.

Haha... oh I am more than sure I'll be back on here like a shot with the "is my puppy normal" questions... as well as the "How the hell do I handle two teenagers" question too LOL :-D

Can't wait till crufts. I've always wanted to go and now I have a great excuse!

Max

I think I'll have a chat with him about the young KC club. So far he is showing a keen interest and I want to feed that, but keep his head on the ground at the same time.

Well we are not really too fussed about 'show quality' we just want to find the right puppy that we really fall for, as first and foremost this is going to be a member of our family and a friend to my Son. But if we could get both, then fanfunkytastic!!

You are right though, it would being him out and enable him to meet some like-minded friends which would be lovely.

Thanks

Max

Astarte

I will have a chat to a breeder about my Son potentially being a junior handler and see what they say. It wouldn't be the end of the world if they didn't have any potentials as that really isn't our first priority, but what a lovely idea!

Thanks

Max

> It wouldn't be the end of the world if they didn't have any potentials as that really isn't our first priority

no, and in getting a pup it shouldn't be, but it can certainly be a hope :)

the breeder you choose will probably be breeding to get themselves a show pup but if you tell them your sons interested in that they will help you pick out a pup that should have potential.

if your boy lacks confidence as you say you might find that showing might be a really good route to bringing him out of himself a bit. i've never seen a kid at a show look anything other than intent and confident, focused on working their dog. i wish i'd done it when i was younger! when i eventually get round to showing i'll be petrified lol!

he'll also meet other kids with a shared interest.

i think someone else suggested agility earlier, that might be worth a look to, of flyball?

anyway, your son obviously is very hands on with this and thats great :)

It will be worth joinging him to the YKC now because if you do it sharpish I think he will be eligable for the free Crufts season ticket....Well if your going to Crufts anyway, membership is on £12 and a crufts ticket is more then that!!!! ;)

And as Kim has said, handling really gives handlers confidence.  I have seen one girl blossom in 9 months of doing handling training, she was a very shy 11 year old when she first came to us, now she is much more confident, at hoe, scool and ringcraft, her parents have seen a huge difference and she's made good friends of her own age plus two girls a little older (15 & 16) who have taken her under their wings!

Also in the Dog world annual 2009 if you ever see one there is a Q&A on a number of young handlers from the parents with one of the questions being about confidence.  All answers say showing has helped.

any dog sport will help confidence as it puts a group of people together who are all different but with one thing in common, which is more then you will get at a school :)

jumping in here, i have a pug, she is our 1st pug she lives with my pei and they get on great, i would and will have another, they are great little dogs with the heart of a lion,she runs free with pei and keeps up with them.
she plays with them and they are very good with her, so don't be put off getting both breed's but like every one says not 2 pups together, you need to give each the time they deserve as babies.

Everyone should have a pug, they give so much love, they are a joy to own (well i think so)

Astarte,

No that really isn't on the priority list, it would just be an added bonus. I think my Son shows more of a flare for agility, but his eyes did light up when we were discussing showing as this is what his Anma did with Finnish Spitz before he lost her. So I think it would mean quite a bit to him, and her if she's watching.

Do you know I have neve actually seen a kid showing, but I'm quite sure they are wonderful at it. And what a lovely way to make great friends. Kids are always willing to teach what they are passionate about. And it will also give him someone to 'brag' to that is willing to listen... you certainly don't get that at school.

"Hands on" is one way to describe him!! :-D

> Do you know I have neve actually seen a kid showing, but I'm quite sure they are wonderful at it.

you will when you go to crufts, there are loads of them and not just in the YKC parts. i will forever remember a wee girl, she must have been about nine, showing the most gorgeous rottweiller. the girl and dog both looked very comfortable, the dog was very very attentive. a lovely thing to watch.

Hi Ice-queen,

I have paid for our crufts tickets now, but thanks for the tip... well worth knowing for the future!!

So nice to hear about all this kids in the ring, what an amazing experience for them and giving them a sense of achievment. And also it's someting for them to do!! I know that sounds daft, but if half the kids I see wandering around aimlessly had something as great as that to achieve we'd have a much happier generation to look forward to!!!

Thanks for all the info

Puuuuugs!! I just adore them!! Maybe I'll get one when our (if we get one) Boxer is older. I would really like one, but we'll see how we get on with one dog first!! That may well be a handful on it's own ;-)

You are all so right, they are babies and they deserve to be treated as indaviduals!

Max

i will forever remember a wee girl, she must have been about nine, showing the most gorgeous rottweiller. the girl and dog both looked very comfortable, the dog was very very attentive. a lovely thing to watch.

I can't wait Astarte I really can't!!

My Son has recently taken up Junior handling and showing with our latest pup.  To see him handling a VERY EXCITABLE and LUNATIC puppy and get placed is amazing :-D  He is easily distracted and full of energy - just like the pup ;) but has to calm down and concentrate on the pup and the judge and it's made such a difference to him and to see the pup behaving for him and showing her socks off for him is a real treat.  He wasn't very confident generally, but he has changed such a lot in even a few shows! He's certainly more confident in school now :-)

It's lovely to see the children showing their dogs (and other people's ;) ) the partnership they have in wonderful :-D

Boston Terriers are so adorable... not for a first timer though I don't think!

Just out of interest what makes you say this? I've had limited experience of both breeds but from what i have seen and heard i would have definately throught it was the other way round, i'm not sure i would ever call a boxer a first time dog, but bostons don't seem to bad to me. Like i say i'm genuinely interested as  i've met more boxers than bostons and they have always seemed much more difficult to train and handle, round here they seem to have issues with frustration.

> Mind I am sure that does not matter so much with "young handlers"  as it is the handler that is judged not so much the dog....is that right anyone.
>

I have found in my limited experience of the last couple of years with my daughter to be  a very debatable point!

Karen

> Mind I am sure that does not matter so much with "young handlers"  as it is the handler that is judged not so much the dog....is that right anyone.
>

I have found in my limited experience of the last couple of years with my daughter to be  a very debatable point!

Karen

ah thanks Dill, that is really encouraging to hear.

we have been chatting this morning and it's certainly some he is keen on, and by the sounds of it he would benefit a lot from the experience. Although his concentration skills are not all that great, so hopefully this will help with that! You never know he may even concentrate at school?!?!?!?!

Hi lucyandmeg,

I'm certainly not an expert, this is really just what I have read and spoken to people on hear about. That's the first time I have heard problems with training boxers, I've heard they are strong minded and can be stubborn, but that's all. I've read that Bostons can be really hard to train. But who am I to say, I have never owned either so have no experience and am very ew to all this, hence the multitude of questions I have asked lol :-D

Hmmm I hope there aren't issues wuth frustration?

> I'm certainly not an expert, this is really just what I have read and spoken to people on hear about. That's the first time I have heard problems with training boxers, I've heard they are strong minded and can be stubborn, but that's all. I've read that Bostons can be really hard to train. But who am I to say, I have never owned either so have no experience and am very ew to all this, hence the multitude of questions I have asked lol

I am no expert either, but from what I can see with my sisters boxer bitch is that they are high-energy, fun loving, people-loving, company loving, very smart dogs & self-assured (well, compared to my Mastiff, my sister's boxer seems like a genius, LOL). It seems to me (from my very limited experience) that this means training has to be very consistent.
It appears that they are great problem-solvers, my sisters boxer soon fathomed that she can open the latch on the gate to let herself out of the garden this involves lifting the latch whille pulling the gate in towards herself at the same time! She can also open any door inwards/outwards (they have to keep the door locked to stop her letting herself out) & take the lid of a bottles and help herself to a drink (lay down, twist bottle top of with mouth, bottle in mouth- tip up bottle with paws - WOW).

Pip (my sisters boxer), loves it when my boys visit, she can out-play them anyday, when she's worn them out she loves to lay on them for cuddles.
The down-side I can see with a boxer, is not it's temperment/trainability (allthough I prefer a less active dog myself) it's the shedding - little hairs EVEYWHERE that stick into fabric.

I'm sure somebody with Boxer experience will come along soon and settle the 'frustration' query properly though.

> it's the shedding - little hairs EVEYWHERE that stick into fabric.
>

Arrrggghhhh - white hairs are the bain (?sp) of my life haha.  Although they do seem to brush off any fabric easily.

> I am no expert either

Heaven help me if I say I am....but.....

Here's the run down on boxers:

They are large lumps of moving muscle which need to be taught, very early, that they must not jump up or they will break your nose, bash a kid to the ground or upend you.
Bought from the right person, they can be very easily trained assuming that the owner has experience of training other med/large dogs.
Bought from the wrong one, they can be maniacs and a devil to control.

Having trained a very large number of them from all lines, the main difficulties are bogging off when off lead and doing the "Na-Na-ne-Naa-Naa" dance around you whilst being able to be caught. Running up to other dogs to stick their beak in and often stomping on them for fun.
Pulling on the lead, caused by the owner teaching them this - by pulling back - No-one flexes their neck muscles like a boxer.
Apart from that they are brill but I never sell pups to children, I sell boxer pups to suitable families where the dog will be trained by the adults and shared by the children - they adore kids but can 'adore them to a pulp' if you let them.

Saying that they are intelligent or problem solvers is debatable and depends entirely on each dog. At the moment I have the cleverest dog I've ever owned a Boxer (and I've owned all sorts) - but I have had several dim ones. - You Dont Want a Very Clever Boxer- hard work and since they already have a tendency to question 'Why' at every training session, a nightmare for a novice.

Many boxer people have Bostons, they look like perpetual pups and I can see the appeal but as many 'down sizing' boxer folk have them - so I assume they are easy in comparison. And I'm of the opinion that in a tricky situation, you have an advantage because you can pick it up!! :-)

> It appears that they are great problem-solvers, my sisters boxer soon fathomed that she can open the latch on the gate to let herself out of the garden <IMG alt=eek src="/images/eek.gif"> this involves lifting the latch whille pulling the gate in towards herself at the same time! She can also open any door inwards/outwards (they have to keep the door locked to stop her letting herself out)

This is my Boxers party trick.He can open any doors with lever handles.His favourite trick is when visiting friends is to open their back door and let all 4 muddy dogs straight in!

I'm not sure what is meant with the frustration,as long as he's well excercised and has plenty to keep his brain occupied he's pretty calm and sleepy around the house.I've raised two from pups and they were both easy to house train,never chewed anything and quick to know what's required(although i agree can be too clever and question why they have to do what you want on occasion).I don't think the hairs are too bad as long as they are given a good brush a few times a week.I couldn't cope with Labrador hair for example ;)

Sorry, what i mean by frustration is that it seems to escalate into aggression more easily in boxers than other breeds. I work in a vets and nearly all the boxers we see (particularly the young ones) go absolutely nuts when they see another dog and can't get to it, and it sounds ferocious but actually isn't. I think this is often how others may become dog aggressive - i'm afraid i have known a few dog aggressive boxers too, and although it may be caused by bad socialisation and genetics i think a lot is to do with how they deal with frustration. Its not just that we have badly bred boxers down here, one of the dog aggressive ones i have seen was a show dog whom i'm told did very well.  (now retired for obvious reasons. ) Another one came to us because it was biting the female of the house in the garden and was now turning his attention on the children. I think a lot of this was down to frustration and excitement because he wasn't a nasty dog really. Bred properly and trained well i think they are a gorgeous breed, full of fun, but imo (albeit limited) its not what i would call a first time dog, although if you are committed  and work really hard it can work fine. (After all i got a border collie as my first dog and they aren't first dogs either! ;-) ) I haven't met a nasty boston yet but i've not met that many.

Thanks for clarifying :) My first Boxer wasn't overly concerned with other dogs but my present one does indeed get frustrated if he can't say hello,he's not the slightest bit aggresive but does want to greet any dog we come accross.

Tooolz just read your post you made me laugh so much it's made my day

> It appears that they are great problem-solvers, my sisters boxer soon fathomed that she can open the latch on the gate to let herself out of the garden eek this involves lifting the latch whille pulling the gate in towards herself at the same time! She can also open any door inwards/outwards (they have to keep the door locked to stop her letting herself out)

One of mine lets herself and the other 2 out into the garden by opening a door that opens inwards, but I wish she'd bloomin learn to shut the door behind her, it's freezing!!!

She also used to be able to open all the internal doors, so we changed the handles to the round knobs, but she worked that out too. Now changed back to the normal ones but put key locks on all the doors otherwise she investigates every single room while I'm out!

I've got 3 boxers, ranging in ages from 1 to 6, and 3 sons ranging in ages 10 to 15, and they are all each others best friends. Often I've walked into the living room to find the 3 boys curled up on the sofa with all 3 dogs!

> we changed the handles to the round knobs, but she worked that out too

ok how- you need a gripping hand?!?

>ok how- you need a gripping hand?!?

She'd stand up at the handle, have both paws on it, and paw at the handle repeatedly to turn it. It never needed a full turn to open, just a slight twist. Thing is, I wouldn't mind if it was just her going in a particular room, (except when it's my study, in which case she'd get in there, chase the cat out of the cat flap and then eat all the cat food), but it meant she opened all the rooms  for the others too, they're just like toddlers, they know they're not supposed to be in there, they know I'm not there to supervise, and they have themselves a little party!

She must be very smart! We had the knob handles put on when we changed the doors in our old house and he couldn't work them out at all(not from lack of trying or scratching the nice new doors).I also would love for him to learn to close the door again,especialy in this weather!

lol, so the 'stupid boxer' idea a lot of people have is a cunning ruse to distract us all? a well culivated but incorrect identity that aids in their misadventures lol

My my, we are going to have our hands full!! I actually think we'll relish the challenge.. well I hope anyway. LOL.

We need to be firm and consistent fom the start by the sounds of it.

Does anyone know what sort of 'mind' exercises are good for Boxers? They sound like they are really smart and I'd like to know what sort of exercises and activities are good. Will the aglity training help?

Only just caught up with this thread, so sorry this is a bit late :)

Here http://www.discoverdogs.org.uk/ you can view the TV coverage of Discover Dogs last November. Programme three is all about the YKC.

I would say size wise of course Bostons are easier, but you have to remember they have 'Terrier' and all that comes with that in their make-up. 

Napoleon syndrome is what I would say my friends boy suffered with.  I sourced him from a reputable breeder for them, but as Novice owners they hadn't done enough dog to dog socialisation and he could be a bit feisty, to say the least. 

Mind you it only took an hour or so with my girls to sort him out, but he still thought he was better than all the boys, LOL!

> I haven't met a nasty boston yet but i've not met that many

Sadly I have, and it wasn't the one I found for my Friends (though eh had no dog manners due to lack of training on their part).  This was a bitch at Ringcraft and she was nasty, nervous aggressive, though I must say most I have met shows have been lovely.

Tooolz just read your post you made me laugh so much it's made my day

And me !!!

I have 4 boxers,
1 is snooty and too intellegent for her own good, her daughter is "not so clever" but an absolute angel and her son who is a great big goon. You can tell they are from the same lines. My other bitch from the Winuwuk line is very intellegent but totally different in character.

I'll tell you one thing!! in 2 years time you'll get another !

> the main difficulties are bogging off when off lead and doing the "Na-Na-ne-Naa-Naa" dance around you whilst being able to be caught

Oh yes classic boxer, at our first obedience show today my little rat bag did this, no body else had ever seen a dog do this before LOL usually he's a star for recalls but he saw the crowd & thought "weyhey they're all looking at me, how cool" ha ha loved the day out though & we even came back with a 5th place! Must of been that cute look in his gorgeous eyes that won the judge over :)

Does anyone know what sort of 'mind' exercises are good for Boxers? They sound like they are really smart and I'd like to know what sort of exercises and activities are good. Will the aglity training help?

Ours like "find the treat" after we have have trailled a biccy on the carpet all around the house.

They also like "find Daddy" game of hide and seek.

Oh and the "I've lost my ball under the sofa" and try and reach it game - although this is not recommended !!

You'd be amazed at what Boxers can do :) I recently heard about Boxer herding instinct trials,there's some photos here..

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb4jGe3yTNM

> Oh and the "I've lost my ball under the sofa" and try and reach it game - although this is not recommended !!

Drives me INSANE, therefore any toys I get have to be too big to fit under the sofa :)

Na-Na-ne-Naa-Naa... hahahaha, that sounds so funny. Flippin frustrating, but funny!!

Opening doors with round handles , unlocking garden gates, herding sheep, agility, flyball... is there anything these dogs can't do? Oh yeah... come back when they're told :-D :-D :-D

Well we've made a step closer to getting a pup as we're off to visit a breeder on Saturday.. my Son is beyond excited (as am I). They have a litter at the moment and we can see the Mum too. The Sire is heart score zero as is the bitch's line.

Any tips for the visit? I have a list of questions to ask, but anything I should be looking out for other than temperament, health and the way the pups have been raised and socialised?

I watched those discover dogs programs and I was very impressed with the YKC and I love the idea of the good citizen dog awards. I am going to see if the dog training centres around here do that scheme as well as puppy training and agility.

I have heard a story today that made me feel really quite sad. A family bought a Boxer pup (I don't know where from) had to give it up at two years old as they couldn't control it, they were really sad about having to give him up, but aparently they said he had 'issues'. Made me even more determined to attend training classes and aim to achieve that Gold Award. I just couldn't even imagine giving up on a dog! Good training and good discipline right from the start as well as buying from a good breeder will help surely?

We're really looking forward to Saturday!! And I think the experience will really be the final thing in making sure we're making the right decision. If the breeder decides we are the right family for one of their pups then we're happy.

Thanks All

how exciting, you will end up wanting them all, if you do chose one of the litter or more likely the pup will chose you,when it come to collecting him or her in a few weeks time hopefully the breeder will give you 6 weeks insurance all i can say is please please make sure you either carry on with the original cover note (contact insurance co.) or find your own one and get the best you can afford (life cover) is the best as i dont wont to scare you at this early stage but they do get various ills like all dogs and also stick their noses in places they shouldnt so better safe than sorry. Good luck on Saturday       

Yes we are very excited. My Son has even given up his birthday party for the visit!! He's a dedicated little thing!

If we decide to get one of their pups they will give us 6 weeks insurance and then we will continue the cover ourselves. I am all for pet insurance as I can't afford any surprise vet bills other than the routine stuff!!

Actually that's a good question... can anyone recommend a good pet insurance company?

Soooooo looking forward to Saturday, I have advised my Son that there may not be a suitable puppy and we may need to walk away. I can't see that happening, but we both need to be prepared!

> like all dogs and also stick their noses in places they shouldnt so better safe than sorry

very true. My sister didn't get the 6 weeks free insurance with her pup & hadn't arranged any cover herself, the first week her boxer pup was home, she pestered the cat, got a warning swipe and ended up loosing her eye - an £800 vet bill in total. My sister thought she had plenty of time to look around for insurance - how wrong she was :(

As for insurance companies, I'm with pet plan (my sister is too now).

We use Tesco, 5 dogs, good cover, no age discrimination, it's about £70 a month. We've used it so far for X-Ray and treatment for our 10 year GR, that was about £400 plus and also for a lump removal that was about £250, they are prompt to pay out too.

WE'VE DONE IT!!!

We are now the proud owners of a ridiculously cute Boxer pup. We went to have a look at him yesterday and it was love at first sight. He was bright eyed and just gorgeous. My Son didn't want to leave without him. We pick him up on Valentines day, so he's a proper love puppy!!

He's a flashy brindle and just has the lovliest markings... I know they will change slightly as he loses his puppy fur, but he is just adorable!

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for all your help and I'm quite sure I'll be back on here in no time with a multitude of questions about our new family member.

Thanks

Max