Hello everyone this is my virgin visit oh here so hope this all makes sense!  I have two border terrier bitches who are full sisters but with one year difference in age.  The older bitch is 2 1/2 and the younger one 1 1/2.  both bitches have always got on very well together until 3 weeks ago when all hell let loose.  They fight on sight and very very aggressively.  Quite severe bites to legs of each other and ears torn. throats bleeding etc.  To separate them once they have hold is very difficult as they seem to lock on.  I made the decision to have both bitches spayed.  This was done nearly 3 weeks ago and the bitches have been kept separate since or muzzled.  They have been out for walks without muzzles and have been fine.  At night they are crated next to each other un-muzzled with out a problem.  The other night they managed to spend 2 hours together on the sofa un-muzzled without a problem but then when my husband got up to get a drink the bitches followed him and started fighting.  I know it may be early days as its only 3 weeks since they were spayed but I just wondered if this was going the right way?  Any advice please??

Sadly there is an old saying - Dogs fight to breed, bitches fight to breathe.

Alot of people have found once bitches start to fight they end up having to rehome
one of them as they can't cope with living on a knife's edge not knowing when their dogs
are likely to kick off or trying to keep them seperate etc. Bitches once started to fighting are
unlikely to stop - they do hold grudges and they do want to 'kill' each other.

The other problem is that you have two very close in age and therefore probably of similar status.
Therefore one will compete with the other to become top.

You might be lucky and get a APDT/reputable behaviourist in to sort the problem but I've known people
try this route and it still hasn't worked. :(

> Alot of people have found once bitches start to fight they end up having to rehome
> one of them

I have to agree with you too Boxacrazy, years ago my parents had two bitches, they had been together for years and unfortunately one day just started to fight. There was no known reason behind why they started, it was just out of the blue. My mum thought she would see how things went, hoping it was a one off. Sadly a few days later they fought again and it was very serious, we couldn't chance them living together anymore especially as I was pregnant. Luckily for us my sister took one of the dog's, she was really my dog and when I moved out of home a few months later she came and lived with me and was fine.
Although they were not related, they were very close in age too.

Diane

I have to agree as well I'm afraid -it is often impossible to get bitches to get on once they have started fighting, and spaying makes no difference in my experience.

I'm afraid I'm another one that has to agree...very difficult when it starts and bitches are notorious! And right bitches they are too when they start!

Sorry yes, they will never forget and will see almost anything as a need to challenge for the rights to be involved not matter how trivial. It will still happen even if one of the bitches is prepared to give way she will still be set upon and sometimes even killed even though she is not trying to protect herself.

Sadly the only safe way is to rehome one of them, ask the breeder of one of them, they may have someone wanting an adult dog on their lists, some breeder/show kennels do.

I'm another one who has to agree. I had to rehome one of my bitches as she was fighting with her older sister (18 months difference) You cannot live with the fear of coming home to a very seriously (or dead) dog. :-(

I own Border Terriers, and I had the same problem, two sisters, and unfortunately I had to rehome one of them, they would have killed each other, my friend who also had terriers, left her 2 bitches in the house together as she often did, and when she came home they had fought, so much one had to be pts, so I would rehome one now before something awful happens, I owns 2 bitches, and there from different lines, one's working, one showing, they get on together really well, so I know what bitches are like!

I'm afraid I'm also in agreement. If they had both been spayed before they started fighting, it might well have been OK, especially as Borders are generally more laid back than most other terrier breeds (or should be :)) but as others have said, bitches never forget. IME it's almost always triggered by hormones- ie when one bitch comes into season.

How terribly sad, but I also have to agree, you can never trust them together as any small thing can cause them to fight, bitches really have a cut throat attitude towards other bitches, they can sit together get along for months,  but they show no mercy when a moment arises to show heirarchy over the most silly things to us and they have no problems in cutting short the life of another bitch whom they have grown up with and happily played with, it makes no sense to us, but in the dog world there generally needs to be an order to things if you have two bitches wanting the same thing, the same respect, with the same characters and will, it is very unfortunate and there is little we can do, they will easily kill and maim each other, you can't think of them in human terms, they have a different ideal to the circle of life than us.

It's a shame as there was a decent age gap between them, although 2 years would have been better, terrier bitches on the whole are pretty much mature by 12-18 months, it is a great pity, that the younger did not look upon the older as the alpha female figure or that the older sees no threat in the younger. I really feel for you.

But, the plus side is with them being small, you may be able to manage this without re-homing, it depends on whether you wish to have two dogs that really should never be left together, you appear to have been managing it, and if they will walk together better still, but you will still need to be extremely vigilant, though most heirarchy issues will appear in the home on home territory.

If they had not had a serious fight you could have raised the pecking order of one of the bitches, if it had not occured naturally by feeding, grooming, petting it first, but it may be too late for this, you could still try it, but it may well not work.

I think you just need to think about whether you can live like this with the dogs, with a dog this size it is perfectly possible, but human error needs to be taken into account, we are also perfectly capable of accidently leaving a gate or crate open, being distracted, some breeds I wouldn't even contemplate trying to manage it, it depends now only on you and your household and how you wish to manage this.

I had two bitches that started scrapping and spaying did bring it to an end but they were not both terriers and they were not as close in age as your two.  I cannot now remember if the change came about immediately that the second one was spayed but if you keep them fully segregated when you are not there to supervise and avoid all stimulants such as food and toys I think it would be reasonable to continue a little longer before giving up and rehoming one if you cannot live with them permanently segregated.

Unfortunatly I also have to agree. Once bitches start to fight then it is nigh on impossible to stop them. Dogs will scrap and then forget but bitches...well they do fight for life.
I had two GSD bitches who hated the sight of one another and had to be kept in completly seperate areas (Lucky I was able to do it) but they could never ever be trusted together. I think you may well have to re-home one.
Aileen

Thankyou for your help.  I was really hoping (still am) that I don't have to re-home one of them.  I love them both so much.  I have no idea what started all this off.  They are so happy together when they're muzzled.  Do you really think that it wont settle down now the hormone issue is dealt with?  Looking at them laid together with muzzles on you wouldn't know anything was wrong (apart from the fact they've muzzles on) its so upsetting.  My vet said to give them two months, which i'm more than happy to do but is this realistic? I' so upset about it all. 

I had this with two bitches and spayed them. Hate to say it but the outcome was that after a bad fight one of them had to be put to sleep and the other was seriously injured but recovered. You may be lucky and I really hope so but be careful. Especially in situations that are likely to trigger a fight. I.e. when getting ready for a walk, when  letting off lead, when food or toys are around, when coming home, when people come for a visit etc - anything that will excite them.

My vet said to give them two months, which i'm more than happy to do but is this realistic? I' so upset about it all. 

Over the time they have been growing up together through play and perhaps things you have never noticed they have been weighing each other up, deciding who is the more alpha between them, something as simple as one bitch licking anothers mouth shows the more alpha that her companion is no threat and often issues are never noticed by us at all, settled with minor body language from our dogs, even a younger bitch taking over as the alpha can go un-noticed dogs and bitches generally weigh things up very quickly just through play, or the way they look at each other. 

If there are to be issues dogs generally make a lot of noise and teeth baring which can look very frightening, but with no actual physical contact, when issues arise, this is generally the start and finish to dogs and bitches with issues, one of them should have backed down and submitted, the fact that it progressed to real contact and real fighting (ears torn, necks and legs bleeding) means they can not sort out their issue and both feel evenly matched, not a good place to be in the world of dogs.

My only glimmer of hope for you is that you say they have always got on until 3 weeks ago, though due to their ages, there must have been some signs of heirarchy, even if you did not notice, you need to now think about this and who in your opinion has had the upper hand even if slightly, who starts the fights, who looks to be more in control and getting the upper hand?  If so try my previous suggestion of enforcing your own Alpha with hormones settling after the spay there is always hope.

They will give you a faulse sense of security, they will happily sit together looking as though butter would not melt, but any small thing could set them off.

It is quite sad for me that they are both muzzled in the home, could you not work out a rota where one is in the kitchen and then alternate? That way also if as MarianneB has mentioned the triggers I.e. when getting ready for a walk, when  letting off lead, when food or toys are around, when coming home, when people come for a visit etc - anything that will excite them. there is no chance of them starting a fight.

I would take your vets suggestion, secure an alpha yourself and hope that it will disipate, but to be honest, I do feel it has gone too far, it should never have escalated so badly, either the younger really wants the top spot or the older sees a real threat, but there is always hope, stranger things have happened and our dogs constantly surprise us, just don't be lulled into a faulse sense of security, neither can be trusted.

Time will tell, I wish you luck.

Sorry to hear that your 2 girls are not getting on.

I have 2 JRT'S who are sisters from the same litter and I also have an Airedale girl who is 1 month younger they will all be 5 this year and get on together great. The 2 Jacks have had a litter each and they both have been great mums and aunties even my big girl .
I would be devistated if they started to fight and it would break my heart if I had to rehome any of them because of this.
Maybe it is just a hormone thing they are going through just now I dont know but I hope things get better and work out for you and your girls .

Let us know how things progress and you will get lots of advice and support here on CD so keep posting

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{  hugs }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Hi there again.  Thanks for your reply.  Now that you mention it one of the girls does lick the others mouth quite a lot, does that mean then that the one who is doing the licking is dominant or the one who is being licked is dominant?  If i was to go about 'making' one more dominant, feeding her first allowing her out first etc would help to establish that but what other sort of thing am i looking at doing?  When I collected them from the vet after their spaying op they were as vile to each other as they were when i dropped them off (which i expected) just the sight of each other had them attacking.  Now they tolerate each other with their muzzles on and, as i said, will lie together.  They even choose to go in the same bed together. Does that indicate though that they are friends and don't see a threat in each other or does it indicate that the alpha bitch is being challenged to the bed space by the other????  Oh I'm so terribly confused.....  I can keep the girls completely separate although it's like living in a submarine with an air lock and moving from one place to another has to be done with military precision! I kind of figured that if I did a combination of allowing them to mix muzzled for part of the time and then separating them for part of the time un-muzzled was a fair way of keeping some interaction for both girls and family.  When i separate the girls one of them is completely removed from the family environment unless one of us goes and sits with her, should this be the on who is to be made alpha or the other????  Lordy, lordy that's why men are so bloody simple isn't it?!?  Watching them when they're muzzled one of the will lip lick.  She is the younger one.  If I allow her muzzle off which i tried briefly she will lick the older ones ear.  Their body language is still a bit bristly if you know what i mean.  This morning they were free range and muzzled and the older one came up stairs while i was getting ready for work.  The younger one then laid on the stairs half way up.  Is this a "right well now you've all got to get passed me" situation or a " I'm not coming all the way up because top bitch is already up there" situation?? Forgot to mention that while out walking with them last night un-muzzled but on separate leads the younger on started barking and pulling at a big dog on a lead across the road which she hasn't done before? Is it me that needs therapy??? J :)

The trouble with all this 'dominance' business and promoting one to the 'alpha' position is that in life things aren't that simple. I was told by a behaviourist/trainer that pack orders are fluid and change all the time depending on certain situations - in one situation Dog A will be top, in a different situation Dog B will be top. And by trying to promote one of them in ALL situations you are totally mucking up the natural way of things and quite possibly making things worse.

An example: Dog A hasn't eaten for 3 days whereas Dog B is well fed and has just eaten. A chunk of meat is thrown on the floor. In this situation I would expect Dog A to be the dominant one, it has a reason to be. Now 3 days later with Dog B having been starved for 3 days and Dog A having eaten the same situation would result in Dog B becoming dominant.

I've probably totally confused you now, but what I'm trying to say is don't try and promote one of them, you may end up with worse problems.

Above post (linkseth82) reported. (spamming website link)

Sounds promising jeanniek,

If the younger as an adult dog, which at 18 months I proffess her to be, is licking the mouth of the older adult, she is showing submission, good sign, infact a very good sign, for the first time I have real hope here. ;-)

Keep the older one as the alpha, this may very well settle you know.

Yes, you may very well need therapy too :-D looks as though the younger one needs some work, do some one to one walking with her and enforce yourself as the dominant member of the household at home, stern voice, strong eye contact and start to use time outs if the younger becomes disobediant to what you ask of her.  If the walking issue continues with her pop the problem on the behavioural topic for some extra advice.

(Re: The link that has been added by linkseth82 we all offer our advice here for free, if we can't help then a referred behaviourist is the only help that should ever be paid for to assess at first hand and sight what will help a dog if general behavioural tips from the sites members can't help.)

Hi again!  I think I have us all confused here!! Bloody hell!  The older bitch, (before all this kicked off) was very licky licky at the mouth of the younger one.  No glimmer of hope now?  It's the younger one who will lick the ear of the older one if i un-muzzle her.  Is that good or bad?? I also forgot to say that the older dog will wee when she's excited to see us when we come in.  The younger one is quite dis-obedient sometimes and wont come when you call her always.  The younger one has always come across as being a bit nervy and stand awayish and it seems to be her (the younger one) doing all the eyeballing. What about this stair thing is that a sign of the younger trying to be dominant?  I just need to establish who the alpha female is by the indicators that i've got and then move forward (hopefully) from there! I'm sorry if I'm not being very clear.  Its difficult when it all seems so clear to me being involved trying to get it a cross to someone who's not.  But I'm really glad you're text invloved!! What do you mean by time outs with the younger one.  I really appreciate your help and advice, and thanks for keeping these naughty links at bay.  You provide a very valuable and worthwhile service.  Bless ya :)

This is an add on to the previous post, somethiing else I forgot! The younger one also mouth licks the older one maybe slightly less but very hard to say who does most.  What other signs am I looking for?  Thanks again. J

Hi again!  I think I have us all confused here!!

:-D Well, your right, there is a huge difference to being there and watching to working things out on a forum,

When you have a pup and an adult licking can go both ways, but when you have two adults that is when you can generally suss out what is what, with licking and other body language. From your update there appears to be no clear alpha here at least via forum, it's becoming too confusing and things may be being read completley wrongly between the two dogs, the stairs may be something, may be nothing, too difficult to assess from here I'm afraid, the younger one does appear to be the challenger.

What I can absolutely say is you need to be in control here, do you do any simple training with your dogs just normal sit, down, stay commands along with recall training? This helps to put you in command as the dominant member of the household, your the carer and the food provider as such you need respect, terriers can be very bossy little dogs, so need a clear message that you are in charge here. Do the dogs do as they are asked? During teaching simple commands with praise and reward, time outs are introduced as a form of punishment or a cooling off period, if a dog becomes too hyperactive, disobediant or tries to over-ride authority,  it's basis is to remove a dog from it's owner into a place of solitarty with a clearn stern No! Either to a crate, behind a dog gate or in a seperate room just for a few minutes until it is more compliant, you then bring the dog back in, if the behaviour continues it goes out again, seperating a dog from it's human teaches it more than any telling off ever will, it shows that you are in control here, you need to use a stern voice, strong eye contact and remain calm, giving a lot of praise when a dog does as they are told and time outs when not soon teachers a dog how to behave around us.

You can use time outs to get the message across with the problems you are having at present too. The moment these two dogs start to snarl or show negative behaviour towards each other you need to step in and seperate the one that starts this now, it's too late to allow normal dog on dog sorting out as we know it will turn into a real fight, eventually when you then say N0! Stop! the dogs will take notice of your commands, if caught in the first inst.

However, if two bitches wish to fight, nothing will stop them other than being seperated.

To be honest, just continue with the muzzles when together and seperation times to allow them to be without muzzle too, but make sure they know you are in charge here not them.

Thanks for that Carrington.  Both dogs are normally very obedient but the younger one can be selectively deaf when she feels like it and if I'm firm with her will crawl to me like I beat her (which obviously I don't!)  I use basic commands, sit(sit), down(lie), off(furniture etc), leave it(stick, ball, horse poo or anything else they shouldn't be having or I want to take away), come etc and as i said they are both normally very responsive.  When i say bed its either in the crate which they have been used to since being pups or a cushion that could be in the kitchen or conservatory or anywhere really.  They don't have a specific area that is for them apart from the crate because we don't allow them to have dominance over a specific area of the house.  This stems from a collie we rescued that had real issues over its bed area and we were advised then never to let a dog have a specific area that it can dominate over its owner. Maybe if I try a very firm 'leave it' if I feel something brewing (possibly with leads on to separate them if needs be) they will get used to the idea. I desperately want to work with this and really appreciate your valuable input.  Thank you

I have been looking at this topic , mainly because I need advise too.
I have an 18 month old bitch among other bitches ages , 9 , 3 , 21/2 , and 2 . She was a difficult puppy , always barked and howled in her crate at
ringcraft(when I took 2 )  , hated being cuddled and was very vocal when at play .She is very posessive of me and will see off another if they come close when she thinks she can .I do dicipline her and give her time out .
Over the last 6 months sahe has had 3 fights with the 21/2 year old who is normally soooo submissive ,too timid even to show in fact  and now she has moved onto the 3 year old who is a bit vocal herself .Her second fight was today and it was the worst yet .
I am pretty upset about it fed up of constantly looking over my shoulder and seperating her  . I can't take this bitch to ring craft as she kicks off there and I now don't show her as she is often nasty to other dogs for no reason .

My head says its time to say goodbye to this troublesome bitch but I feel that I have failed if I do so , and where would I send her ?

I'm afraid I couldn't rehome any bitch that is causing so much trouble :-( If she is fighting for no real reason I would firstly speak to a vet, to make sure that there isn't an underlying medical reason, and then an APDT behaviourist for help. If I then felt that she couldn't be helped I would make the decision to PTS, as I wouldn't be comfortable rehoming her to someone else. A bit drastic, I'm afraid to say, but I would have to live with my conscience if I did rehome her and something more serious happened. As you are having trouble away from home as well she doesn't sound like she is trying to take top spot among your own bitches. JMHO.

I had to rehome a bitch after fights started between two of my bitches, but she was ok away from home. If she had attacked other dogs she would have made that final one way trip.

I don't disagree with what Lindyloo is saying it often does end up just having to be that way for the sake of harmony at home.

There are many reasons why dogs are aggressive, the home situation would normally come over a bitch having heirarchy issues and jostling for that top spot, you do have quite a few bitches here with not much of an age gap which ultimately can cause these problems and which may or may not sort itself out over the next year. She is still young and obviously has a lot of attitude, don't blame yourself SALLYD, a dogs character is a dogs character, we can train, but we can't stop them from being the bitch that will fight to be top dog, we can avert and occassionally if the character of the dog is stronger than the others assert the dog to top spot with harmony and a settling of the pack.

However, you have two problems here, if she is like this outside the home aswell, (with all dogs, or just bitches?) and aggressive at ring craft and now unable to show, it's more than just home heirarchy issues, (which can be bad enough on their own)

Is she a terrier or toy breed by any chance? Making assumptions here. When decisions like this are made, I often feel that breed needs to be taken into consideration, as if she is a small breed she would be easier to handle as an aggressive dog with problems, and with two different issues. An apbt behaviourist would greatly help here, particularly with her outdoor problems, age most probably does have a lot to do with her home problems, you could just keep her segregated for now.

If you feel the problem is too much and depending on the breed it may be worth having a talk with your breed rescue about her issues and full honest account of her problems. Sometimes it is possible with one to one and a breed that is not too strong and powerful to control and work hard on a bitch like this via lead, muzzle and constant training, breed rescue may know someone who is willing to take the problem on as she is still very young. Of course your dogs breeder may also be a good port of call to go to, just be completely honest with the situation.

The other alternative is segregate and putting the hard work in yourself and give her another 6 months, as I've said she is still very young and at that cocky stage, she may turn around yet.

Her age really puts me off the pts route at present, it may well end up that she needs to be, she may just be aggressive and nothing works, however due to her age give her the chance to come through this, you need help from a behaviourist to watch and guide you here or speak to her breeder or your breed rescue if you can't cope any longer. :-)

> I'm afraid I couldn't rehome any bitch that is causing so much trouble :-(

I suspect you've never had much to do with terriers Lindylou :-)

My experience of bitch on bitch aggression would suggest that dominance issues within the home can easily spill over to unwanted bad behaviour outside the home as well. I would have a long chat to experienced people within your breed, but I suspect that the answer may well be to rehome this bitch, either on her own or with one other, preferably male, dog.

Hello
My breed is cocker spaniel , normally a happy merry breed .
I have been so long in answering as apart from having my wounded bitch at the vet I have been to see an older cocker breeder who also trains dogs and runs rescue .

The bitch in question likes a lot of other dogs and is exercised with a fair few at times off lead (others not mine ) aggression is only seen if I actually sit down and another dog approaches me when she will tell. him/her to go away .It confuses me as she has never been close or cuddly to me, as a pup she didn't want to be picked up or on a knee either .She does not fight with my only male dog or the 9 year old , in fact she cowers when my old lady looks hard at her and will give up her food if she goes near the food bowl .I am wondering if she is clearing the road for herself to become top dog when the elder gets too old .
That still doesn't explain her behaviour at shows and ringcraft though .

I am concidering what to do . I will not have her "PTS" , that is crazy .
I may allow her time with a dogless household or perhaps one with a male dog as suggested . I am not sure I can keep her here in view of her behaviour amongst bitches especially those in season . I don't lock any of my gang up for hours on end and don't think I can subject her to that type of segregation either .

I must not make a decision is haste , im looking at all the advise .
Thanks to all

Rehome her as an only pet. She clearly has that kind of personality that she cant live together with other girls in a pack. Seek a behaviourist to help with some of her dog aggression and a training plan her new owners can keep upto.

Louise

Hi
Thanks for you opinions and advise .
I did see a behaviourist who gave me a jif lemon filled with water to spray her with .I would have been better donating the 25 pounds to charity .Some are obviously better than others .
After speaking with my bitch's  breeder I have decided that it would be kinder to all of my pack to rehome her as an only pet .Her breeder was very kind and supportive and thankfully didn't try to blame my upbringing of her.
I am upset about all of this but I am sure that my girl must also be unhappy with her own Jeckle and hyde behaviour .I must remember she also gets hurt in her own battles ! .

She is my best and most successful show girl to date which is sad , I know that I cannot even try for a puppy from her in case she passes her behaviour on .... so that is that , I must turn the page and move on .

My job is now to make sure that I find the right home for her ,I will take advise from my friend in rescue . As I do not want her bred from I will retain her papers but perhaps spaying her would be a better option , it's just an op which I am not a fan of unless absolutely necessary to the health of the dog .

By way the bitch that came off worst in this is hurting and tired but doing OK .

Sally 

Oh bless her hope she isnt too hurty.

I very much doubt its your upbringing, so dont blame yourself. Maybe contact breed rescue or other breeders that may know of someone after a girl as an only pet. I know that some couples only ever have the one dog and they die and they cant handle another puppy so look for the older dog. Preferably a nice retired couple that go walking alot. Id recommend spaying her so that they dont have to deal with seasons.

Louise

Thanks Louise
She's staying by me , I must teach her to turn the other cheek !

By the way sorry to hyjack this topic Jeaniek , good luck with your girls .

I was told by a behaviourist/trainer that pack orders are fluid and change all the time depending on certain situations - in one situation Dog A will be top, in a different situation Dog B will be top. And by trying to promote one of them in ALL situations you are totally mucking up the natural way of things and quite possibly making things worse.

That is how dogs living together are looked at now - it is said that dog learn what they can and can't do in context with other dogs, rather than one dog always being alpha etc :) . I think another point I'd like to make is that problems can get worse if for instance dogs are separated and one is with the family, the other "booted out" to the conservatory for an hour for instance... you'd have to make the separate dog really really happy or they will see being apart as punishment and may associate it with the other dog!

If you really do want to try keeping them, I'd suggest contacting the APBC http://www.apbc.org.uk/ for help and see what is said after an assessment. Also, we are all assuming it's to do with hormones (and it probably was, I agree..) but, to be absolutely sure a vet check with blood tests should also be done to ensure there is no medical reaso for the behaviour (if you take away the hormone side of things, which I agree is most likely, dogs suddenly altering their behaviour is sometimes due to a medical problem). A reputable behaviourist will suggest this so as to close that door at least :)

Also sometimes dogs can start to resource guard which again may not be the case here but would be easier to sort out (eg if there was a trigger such as you stroking one of them or one trying to take a toy from the other, maybe that is not due to hormones).

Hope that makes sense....good luck

Lindsay
xx

I'm sorry if it looked as if I was recommening having her PTS, I wasn't. It is as a last resort. However, at the time I was posting I felt it had to be said, as something to consider.

Now that you have added more info I have had a thought. When you are at shows is she on her own? Could she be feeling separation anxiety from the other dogs? It sounds like she is trying to find her place in the pack at home, and when she is out and about she doesn't know where she stands, so is feeling more anxious. If you don't intend breeding from her (which I wouldn't if her temperament is not typical of the breed) then spaying her might help her, especially if her hormones are part of the problem. You would still be able to show her if her behaviour settled.

Only you know your bitch, and how she behaves. We can only give advice by what we read, which can sometimes be misread.

Oh, and to the person who asked about me and terriers. No, I don't have a lot of experience with them. Not since my family emigrated to Australia in the sixties and we had to leave our Fox Terrier behind. I was only 6 years old at the time and can't remember him very much ;-) :-( I have gundogs, which are people and dog friendly :-D

Just a thought and I dont know which part of the country you are in  they are in surrey but have a look at this link http://www.dogcommunication.co.uk/ I have been recommended to them by my apdt trainer. I have not yet started work with them we are at the assessment stage so cant tell you much. However a phone call and a chat may be helpful. My problems are different from yours but they work with all sorts and although not apdt come recommended by, also their prices dont seem to bad.

Hello
I have spoken to a couple of people looking for cocker spaniels listed at rescue to feel out the ground . One intended starting a family over the next couple of years which didn't sound appropriate and another already had another cocker .
I have also had a long discussion with a lady who has worked for the RSPCA and Dogs Trust. She visited me and brought a file of certificates of all the courses and degrees she has under her belt, all animal related. She has taken in and trained a lot of difficult dogs .
Her GSD died this year at age 13 and she intended taking on another permanent family pet . She has fallen for my girl and will be collecting her on Friday .
She will have 2 weeks holiday then to study and train her . After that she intends to take her with her to work , she lectures 16 hours a week at college .
Yesterday she brought her children who were so well trained around dogs ! they and my little one got on famously .
She has never and will never breed dogs so I have no worries there either .
I am happy with my decision and trust that my girl will settle and have a happy life . Now I just have to get my head around letting go of her on Friday . Lets hope its sunny as my sunglasses will be on either way .

Thank you all for you kind words and support
Sally

Sally, so glad that this situation will have a good end. You know she will be better as a 'one only' dog, some dogs just are. I know it will be very hard on you but a) it is the better option and b) you couldn't let the situation carry on at home as it was.

Well done for making a difficult decsion. I am sure in time you will feel satisifed and relieved that you did the best for everyone