Hello,
I was hoping for some advice.
I have a beautiful Cocker Spaniel (Dog) from a good working pedigree. He is a pet, I don't use him for work but we have a very active lifestyle which he enjoys (and he has a lovely long tail!).
I love the cocker spaniel breed and would like to get a bitch. I was thinking about getting a bitch from a show line.

Are there any rules to say you shouldn't breed a working cocker with a show cocker?

The trouble is that the two types look so very different, and generally have such different temperaments, that the people who like the working type wouldn't want a show type, and vice versa. So your puppies would be of limited appeal.

It goes without saying, of course, that if you were going to use your current dog as the stud dog that he's passed all the tests for genetic illness that apply to cocker spaniels (the annual eye test by a specialist ophthamologist, etc).

Not just limited appeal utterly pointless.

it depends what you intend them for. if your boy does not have a KC pedigree (i'm unsure from your post) you couldn't register the pups so they could not be shown.

beyond that though the actual process of breeding is a very complicated one with many moral requirements and ethical guidelines rather than actual rules.

a good breeder will not breed any dog that has not excelled in the area it is intended for (working or show) or can benefit its breed in some other way (for example by helping add a feature to the gene pool, helping support a breed with flagging numbers and so on- but these tend to be decided by very experienced breeders). additionally the dogs in question need to be very healthy- and that means genetically as well as on the surface, that means lots of very expensive tests (for cocker tests there will be someone along :)). they also need to be of very good temprements, no aggression or nerves etc.

you cannot make a decision about breeding a dog you don't have yet as you don't know what she will be like physically/mentally/emotionally. she might not compliment your dog and so throw puppies that are not what you are looking for.

breeding is also extremely risky and should not be undertaken lightly. not only does the process put the bitches health (or even life) at risk but you are then responsible for the lives of each of the puppies. a good breeder will accept back any pup they have bred for whatever reason at whatever time in their/the puppies life.

i'd suggest before even thinking about breeding to go ahead and get a nice bitch from show lines (you'll get plenty of advice on cocker breeders from here!) and maybe give showing a go? see how she turns out then if your still interested in breeding you should have a good mentor in her breeder who will help you find a suitable stud and can help with the (fairly terrifying!) process of breeding.

anyway, hope this helps :)

> she might not compliment your dog
>

She won't.  Show bred cockers are very different to their working sisters.  They look different, they have different character traits and they serve different purposes.  It matters not that both could have excellent pedigrees (working cockers are registered with the KC in the same way as show ones) and pass all health tests the cross between the two would produce unreliable outcomes and serve no purpose that I can think of other than to perhaps make money.

Thank you all, this is just the sort of advice and information I needed.
My dog does have a KC pedigree and breeding is not something I would ever enter into lightly or for money reasons.
My dog has one of the best temperaments I have seen in a dog, and I am not just saying that because he is mine, he really is brill with children and you couldn't ask for a better pet. People we meet always remark on it.
We lost out 17 yr old border collie bitch recently and my cocker who is 12 months really misses the company of another dog. Initially another dog would be for company so this is just thinking very far ahead really to find out the facts.
I can see I will learn alot from these forums.
Thanks again.

> She won't.  Show bred cockers are very different to their working sisters.  They look different, they have different character traits and they serve different purposes

i did think as much but not being that 'up' on cockers i did not want to give a definate.

i was also trying to be a bit gentle in my language as this poster is new and seems to be interested in breeding but perhaps is not informed about exactly what that requires. this is why i stressed that there are not rules as such but moral obligations involved.

lack of knowledge does not mean she is profit seeking. i think the main reason for back yard breeding is that people don't know how to do it right, and surely this type of forum exists to help people learn?

> My dog has one of the best temperaments I have seen in a dog, and I am not just saying that because he is mine, he really is brill with children and you couldn't ask for a better pet.

The logical thing is to try to get the dog's breeder to provide another just like him.

Trying to recreate your precious dog's special traits by adding 50% of the genes from another type/line,
may result in something else entirely.

> does not mean she is profit seeking.

I did not particularly think the OP was working along those lines so appologise if it looked that way.  I just meant, that aside, there really is no reason to cross these two types of Cocker.

> I did not particularly think the OP was working along those lines so appologise if it looked that way

lol, even if you had ment it that way i think we can all get away with being protective towards the dogs we love. its very easy to read things in a way other than intended :)

hi we just had an accidental litter from our dogs. both are fantastic workers with oustanding pedigrees. however my dog is now castrated to prevent it happening again. i would only breed (just my opinion) if the dog or bitch had outstanding achievments in either the show ring or in the working field.

if you want a company dog why dont you get a bitch and get your dog castrated. it would be easier than trying to part them everytime she came into season and some dogs literally chew through walls to get to a bitch in heat.

sometimes having 2 dogs can get quite competetive and it is known that the opposite sex do get on better(this is not always the case tho but is just something i would consider)

If your dog has been used to the company of an older dog, why not take in a rescue Cocker to keep him company, an older spayed bitch?

and i dont no about cockers but i was looking at the springers rescue website the other day and there is some totally gorgeous ones.

No rules, both are English Cockers, however as already said, little appeal you either like one or the other strain, they are so different in every respect from looks to characteristics that to be honest if I had my way I would like to see the two completely seperated it would stop a lot of confusion and a lot of joe public accidently purchasing a Working Cocker instead of the show strain. Often people are disillusioned that a Working Cocker is just a Show Cocker that works. :-D

So don't mix the two it has taken generations of good work to produce both strains with two completely different needs.

I love both strains, there are so many Show Cockers being produced at the moment, many not from good quality lines, the breed is being ruined particularly temperament wise by careless and unknowledgable breeding, there are so many good Cocker breeders around we really don't need anymore breeders and to be honest the Working Cockers are best left to be bred by people who know what they are doing. :-)

Instead of showing an interest in breeding, why not become involved in a gundog club with your Worker, see if you can train him up, or just get him interested in something he will absolutely enjoy, agility for instance, if you really want a show cocker too, what about a little showing, there are so many interesting and enjoyable things to do with our dogs to show them off other than breeding and so much more satisfying.

Cockers require to have 2 DNA tests one for PRA (progressive blindness) and the other for FN (kidney disease). also be eye tested and hip scoring would be good.

Your best and most inexpensive bet would be to go back to your dogs breeder and buy him a male companion.  If the temperament is good then they are obviously breeding what you want, and have the knowledge to do so again, or put you in touch with someone equally good.

My friend has one a sproker and they are lovely but dont look like one or the other but I would buy one!! Im sure they will be lovely but Im biased as I have a show type male Whistler and his mate the sproker is called Bramble!!

Funnily enough you mentioned your old dog was a border collie our other dog is a border collie as well and the two very different dogs get on famously. I have really been struck by how different the two breeds are. The characteristics are so distinct you would think they had come from a different planet!! I do know people with two or more male cockers and they do get on ok. They are a nosey breed, always in trouble or looking for it and sneaky, he will disappear into bedrooms and be asleep in my son's rooms.  The collies are more attentive to humans, def. cleverer and always on the go. Whistler will just sleep on me and I cannot turn around without steping on him. Whislt the collie is def. not a lap dog and does not follow my OH around so much, he's there when called but not underfoot, but maybe thats just our two, whatever.

A Sproker is a Springer x Cocker, a Working Cocker x Show Cocker is still just an English Cocker, both the same breed. :-)

Well I did not know that!! I like the show types myself they are so pretty and not as active as a springer or working cocker. Does a working cocker have a different coat? I do not think I have ever seen one! Smaller than a springer? or same size?

>My friend has one a sproker and they are lovely but dont look like one or the other

we have a sprocker at agility training, he looks just like a working springer, in fact I thought he was one until I was told otherwise.

Yes, different coat, different shaped head, more athletic body.

To be honest they are really in-between the Show Cocker and the Springer, (smaller than the Springer) there are different sizes though I've known really large ones and also very small ones, it depends on the breeder and what they were bred for, but then, there are so many varient sizes of Show Cocker too.

They really do look totally different though, it is understandable why people get confused.

> we have a sprocker at agility training, he looks just like a working springer, in fact I thought he was one until I was told otherwise.

We have one at our training classes and he looks like an under size working Springer too.

A sproker is a purposeful cross that a lot of sporting people find useful.  I have never heard of a deliberate cross between a working and show cocker being created for any useful purpose.

Thanks Carrington I have a big show cocker I saw one the other day I thought was a pup and she was over 6 months old a midget, but Whistler is too big to show as he is over 18" to the shoulder, one of his brothers is a mini one we just picked the big one. I have a yearn for a solid colour either a black or golden but thats a long way off yet.