hi i am just curious as to any breeders of ess pups out there how heavy were the pups. i have one that is only 6oz is this far to light or do you think it will still manage. it def is feeding fine and not being pushed out.

also my bitch is adament she wants to sit on them all the time do i need to stop her doing this i am so scared she is going to crush them.
thanks

Don't know about weights as my breed is a bit larger than a Springer, but re the bitch crushing the pups, does your whelping box have pig-rails ? I know in my breed these are essential as the bitches can be clumsy.

For this reason I stay close to my bitches as much as possible, and rescue pups that get lost.

The book of the bitch gives ESS pups as 9 - 12oz at birth the same as my breed (10 - 12oz) near enough.

In practice my pups seem most often to be 12 = 16 ounces, but have ahd pups 9 - 18 ounces,a dn once ahd one of 6 ounces that lived.

I would expect a weight gain of an ounce a day in the first week, maybe no gain or a slight loss the first day.  By the second week I would expect a gain of 1 1/2 ounces a day, 2 ounces a day in the third week etc.

My girls are on four times their normal rations right from the start, so eating a Kilo of dry puppy food.

I soak it in loads of water to keep the water intake up.  Also feed the bitch in her whelping box and encourage her to stay with them as much as possible the first week (only loo breaks really).  Most bitches need prizing out from the whelping box every few hours in the first three days.

Any smaller or weaker pup I would plug onto the milk bar every time I pass the box.

thankyou. one is 6oz and the rest and 10 to 10.5. they just look so big next to her. we have rails on but she still seems to sit on them. she is ok when you leave her with them its when you go near she sits on them all. should i stay back and let her get on with it. mags is fine and when you open the back door she runs straight out to go to toilet. she is eating but only when you spoil her. the vet said give her a normal food and he give us some calcium to put on it but she wont eat her normal food. the smallest pup always seems to be on the teet so hopefully she is getting enough

Have you made a den around the whelping box.

I use a puppy pen that can be covered with just the entrance open, this also keeps the warmth in.

Are you using a heat pad, the pups may be cold.

My pups are 9 days old and of a breed that normally don't want much heat even when only a week old.  I have had the CH on 24/7 at 17.5'C, and a heat pad under their Vet bed.

When they started spreading out yesterday I returned the CH to the normal on off pattern and when its off they gravitate to the pad if Mum is not with them.  when they start avoiding the pad altogether I will remove it, but that is unlikely to be before they are two weeks old.

In the Summer I have had pups need cooling.  Newborn pups cannot regulate their body temperature very well and it doesn't reach adult rate until they are 3 weeks old.

As for feeding supplementing with Calcium unless a lack has been diagnosed can be dangerous.  A good quality puppy food or one designed for nursing bitches/dogs in heavy work should be used.  If feeding a natural diet then the meat portion needs to be appropriate to the work her body is doing.

Very few Vets have more than a passing understanding of whelping and rearing.

You will need to keep a watchful eye (24/7) over the coming days, keep putting your little 6oz pup onto mums teats every hour or so, as often with a little and possibly weaker one they get pushed out by the bigger stronger pups.  Also this is really important - make sure they are kept really warm as they can weaken very quickly if their body temperature drops.  It is possible for a pup to get crushed by its mother, so this is another reason for being with them all the time.  If you can get them past the first 2 weeks, then hopefully you can take a small breather before the weaning stage.

Good Luck with them x

ok so would you say i need to watch closely until they are 2 weeks. i have a heat pad on and the whelping box is now got a lid on to keep the warmth in and to let mags feel a bit more secure.

I rarely leave mine unattended until pups eyes are open, and mine are pretty careful, yet you still occasionally get a pup crawl into trouble.

hi just read earlier post the vet give calcium as they said it was a big litter for her and to stop her milk drying up.
also i read somewere i cant remember were that they lose a little weight before they start to gain. all bar 2 have started to gain weight. the runt is still only 6 oz and the one that was 9oz . should they have gained weight by now, they were born between 12-4pm on thurs.

i am just really worried that she feels like i am interfiering to much. sometimes she is brill with them and other times she does not bother with them.

She is young and inexperienced, and as you have posted before not a confident bitch.  You need to supervise and intervene as and when necessary, not all bitches are natural mothers.

She needs copious amounts of nutritious food (not artificial supplements) and as much water as you can get into her to produce milk.  the milk supply works on demand and supply, so the more time she spends with them allowing them to suckle the sooner a good milk supply is established.

To this aim I wait hand foot and finger on my bitches in the first week (and after) so they can concentrate on being with the pups building the bond and food supply, and only leaving them for comfort breaks.  I feed them in the whelping box at least four times a day.  If their appetites are poor then special nutritious extras, eggs, sardines etc are given to perk the appetite up.

You may also find the lips get sore and Vaseline to stop chapping will help.  also watch the milk bar and snip those hooks from puppy nails by a week old, often at about 4 days for the first time.

hi thanks for your advice. i was really concerned about her last night. she was wandering the bedroom floor for hours last night panting and seemed really unsettled. she has just had a check up and the vet said she was fine but she seems not well at all to me. is this normal. also i get the feeling 8 pups are a little to much for her, they are wanting fed constantly  she  has 8 teets some of which are a little small for pups to grip. do you think i should maybe feed some to help her i think she is getting stressed. if so i no you can buy the milk for them but in the book of the bitch it says evaporated milk with boiled water do you think that is ok to use.,
thanks

My girl reacted in a similar way at times,she seemed to be very overheated and rather overawed by the whole experience,She wasn't drinking enough and i found she loved full fat goats milk or rain water(fresh),preferably given to her in the whelping box.She drank so much more that way and seemed much happier

Don't interfere with her feeding of the pups, any substitute you could give should only be used in an emergency ;)  your bitches milk is perfectly designed for her pups and will be digested much better by them ;)   In addition your removing the pups to feed may well stress the bitch too much, she needs you to feed her well and she will feed the pups.  Your job is to make sure each pup is getting enough of her milk and not being pushed off by a bigger/greedier pup ;) Just make sure she is drinking enough, soak her food too - licking the pups clean can make her mouth sore and she will appreciate softer food that is easier to eat ;)

The suckling of the pups causes her womb to contract, this feels a little like labour and will cause her to pant as it is uncomfortable for her, but totally natural and normal ;)

At first the pups will feed almost constantly, this is what establishes the milk supply ;) as long as they are contented inbetween feeds, are warm and not agitated then they are getting enough.   Weighing each pup daily and recording their weights on a chart will show you how they are growing.

thankyou that has helped alot. through the day my bitch is fine with them its on a night she gets unsettled prob when she is getting tired. all pups seem to be getting fed fine. but the 2 smallest have not put on any weight but they do seem to be eating plenty.

Have you checked their mouths?

I would put them onto her teats when the others are asleep.  the bigger pups can get more than the smaller ones at a sitting so the small ones need extra sessions to catch up.

ok i will try that thanks. yeah mouths have been checked