Lindylou ..... that is entirely the point .... nail on head .... would the dog be happier - that is what matters. The simple fact is, the more dogs you have, the less attention they get and that is precisely what I am getting at. I think every case is individual though.

when i said that i wasnt referring to the OP,but the fact it does happen,some people do only buy in or breed for a dog to show.if people didnt re-home thier dogs that didnt make up as show dogs they would all have ahouseful of pets and the show world would be pretty much confined to kennel people who can keep everything.i KNOW the dog in question is and has only been apet, but im still of the opinion if she has a home lined up with another family member or friend who this larger breed dog will have a  loving home with then it could work out.some people do have dogs because they want to show or breed a line and if there is limited numbers they can keep,rather than wait x amount of years until one dies before they can bring in or breed  a new one,i see no problem with re-homing if the right home comes along.shes not gonna be dumping it in kennels.

> Another example, last summer when we went away, two of the dogs went to stay with my mum-in-law (who they rarely see and so don't really know) for a fortnight. Being dogs and not humans, we were unable to tell them that don't worry, we will be back for you soon - as far as they knew, that could have been their new home - they never bat an eyelid. Of course they were pleased to see us on our return, but at the same time, I know if we had never been coming back for them, I doubt they'd have been that bothered LOL.

My 3 dogs go absolutely mad greeting me, even if i just nipped to the shops for 30 mins.  They have only been left for 1 week with a house sitter in our own home and i can honestly say that i could actually see 'happiness' on their faces when we came home. (and certainly on ours).  They 100% miss us, just like we miss them!!

Guess what i am trying to say is the bond with my 3 dogs is so, so strong, and that will be until death do us part!

tadog writing in capitals is considered shouting and very rude! right well you say you have a problem with people that run on pups and let them go if they are not good enough to show, well then you have a problem with the majority of people in the show world, if people keep dogs in a kennel, never give them any sort of socialisation and housetraining then in my opinion they shouldnt have any sort of dog at all whether they are showing them or keeping them as pets, all mine live indoors, they are all trained and socialised, they are all happy, the truth is not every puppy you breed will turn out to be a showdog then its fairer on that puppy to rehome it to a loving pet home where it will be centre of attention rather than keep every dog in an ever growing pack that cant possibly have enough individual attention, if tadog you have a problem with everyone that sells on a puppy then you have a problem with all breeders as well as show people, I'm sure as a trainer you see the downside of badly bred badly brought up dogs, the majority of those I believe will have come from back yard breeders rather than show people who care very much where their dogs go, I am fortunate in that my own chosen breed of Papillon has very small litters so I never have to worry about having ten or so growing puppies needing to find good homes, you should not tar us all with the same brush tadog, there are good and bad in every walk of life and that includes show people.

But Wendy, sadly(for you) , if you had never come back, and they had been left with the house sitter, they would have been fine !!!!!

> nail on head .... would the dog be happier - that is what matters. The simple fact is, the more dogs you have, the less attention they get and that is precisely what I am getting at.

The way I see it, if you know your dog will not be happy if you introduce more to your house - DONT GET ANY MORE DOGS!
It seems simple to me, but as I am merely a 'pet' owner and beleive that it's the owners responsibility to do all in thier power for the sake of the DOG - am I missing something?

Re-homing a pet dog because it is unhappy with you is entirely different than getting rid of it so you can get a new one :(

> To huskygirl - where have I said my bitch will be rehomed ? And I said "larger" not "large" - and one not two ......

Hello Summerdream,

You are absolutely correct, and my appologies duly and gladly given.
I should have, more corectly, said 'May be rehomed' as you had said  in your OP >It would be the kindest option to rehome the 5 year old larger breed.<
And typing large rather than Larger was more my (abysmal!) typing skill rather than my understanding.
And I had put two, again my poor understanding! because I thought the rehoming applied to a pet dog rather than breeding stock >I have a couple of other dogs,of a different breed, who are just pet dogs<
Absolutely not my intention to engage in any handbags at dawn.
Appologies.

If I choose a puppy bought in or bred........its here for life. Could not contemplate re homing any of them....................

Diane

> Dogs do have bonds with humans & I regularly see the look of confusion on the faces of dogs being dumped in rescue by their unfeeling owners...No they don't think like humans, but there are bonds between dogs & owners that cannot be severed with the ease you believe they can

We lost our oldie in Sept. We got him form a shelter when he was 4 yrs old. The only history we had about him was that he had come from a family with children. up untill he lost his hearing (about 12 yrs old) whenever he heard young girls (always the same age, about 8 yrs old) playing in the street/passing by he would react, at first he would run to the door in anticipation, for the first few months he would be wagging his tail and barking with exitement, this faded to just a look of expectaion over time - there must have been a girl in the family he was from and he never forgot her :( It always made me feel guilty, allthough he was very happy with us, I'm sure he wouldn't have chosen to leave his previous family :(

For what it is worth, I actually do genuinely feel that she would be happier as an only dog or maybe one of two rather than living in a seemingly ever growing pack  and I am sorry, but I shan't be abandoning my breeding and showing plans because of this.... that said, I can't actually ask her can I ? and it would be a huge decision for me ..... and probably one I won't end up making.

> But Wendy, sadly(for you) , if you had never come back, and they had been left with the house sitter, they would have been fine !!!!!

i think you missed my point - IF you have a strong bond with your dogs then without a single doubt they do miss you!
<

In my experience, when I run on puppies I tell myself and anyone who asks that "I'm no letting them go just yet"... yes..you guessed it...they are still here!
But I do believe that there are sometimes good reasons for people to rehome dogs..in fact I have friends who have too many dogs (IMHO) and I worry for their quality of life - the dogs that is.
Keeping too many so that each individual doesn't get enough attention is wrong and I urge these people to give at least one of these dogs a one -to-one relationship with a suitable owner but they think that they should keep the dogs for life -but I just happen to think that one or two would have a better life as only dogs with a 'normal' doggy life.

I'm lucky in that I can keep as many as I like and have someone who works for me who's home can be an 'annexe' but I am limited by just how many can sprawl around my living room.
Many exhibitors believe that keeping a kennel or dog room full of dogs, is the best for the dog and I dont agree.

I have a bunch of oldies but I suppose it depends on how you view dog ownership - a life-long companion or a means to an end.

> Keeping too many so that each individual doesn't get enough attention is wrong and I urge these people to give at least one of these dogs a one -to-one relationship with a suitable owner but they think that they should keep the dogs for life -but I just happen to think that one or two would have a better life as only dogs with a 'normal' doggy life.

I agree that it can be best to re-home a dog if the current home is overcrowded or the dog doesn't enjoy being with the other dogs/pets/children in the house or the owner is nolonger in a position to be able to give the dog the life it needs, but not to get rid of one dog to make room for another :(

> but not to get rid of one dog to make room for another

I have already expressed my feelings about this matter to the people concerned along the lines of "If you keep one more dog I will be forced to kill you" :-)
Luckily they like me.

> Hi to all. I was just wondering what other breeders do as the years go by and their doggy numbers increase - do you keep them all or rehome some of your stock once they are retired from breeding/showing ?

I don't breed but here is another perspective: that of a potential puppy buyer choosing the criteria for a breeder.  Making the decision to buy a pedigree dog can be the easy bit but finding a breeder can be tricky.  I was looking for the 'right' dog obviously but finding the 'right' breeder was almost more important as I knew that if I could find the right breeder for us then I knew we could trust her to help us find the right dog for our family.

Some of the initial decision making was based on hard facts about show experience, field training, health testing etc but a huge part was based upon whether they had similar values as our own.  For many people this is a business transaction and personalities don't come into it BUT buying a dog was definitely an emotional decision too and it very much depended on whether we could connect with our breeder.

I would have been wary of a breeder that didn't have some oldies.  We got a lot of reasurance about our breeder based on their treatment and attitude towards their own dogs.  I like to see the older ones and, as someone with no previous experience of showing, it was so useful to see them stacked and have explanations about differences between breeds and also to see a few generations of the same breeding.  As our pup has grown it's been lovely to still have that connection with some of his grandparents. 

Would I have bought from a breeder that regularly rehomes older dogs or run pups on then moves them out if they don't make the grade?  No.  I want a breeder to whom the dog means more than the breeding programme and also one that is pretty skilled at choosing a good dog to keep or keeps them warts and all!

A personal decision?  You bet.  I cannot imagine moving one dog out to make room for another and wouldn't consider adding another dog to my family unless we had the room (physically and emotionally) to accommodate it.  It means a lot to me that my breeder (now friend) has the same standards, and if I was in any doubt she has said it in this thread too!!

Read my post through, I have 7 older ones ranging from 8 down to 3 that will stay with me forever, the pups I have may or may not stay with me depending on whether they are good enough to show or even like to show, some pups love the ring and some totally hate it and its kinder to let them go to a pet home in that case, its no good inferring that show people who pet home some of their pups are heartless uncaring people, that is certainly not the case, if I let one or both of my pups go it will be before they are 6 months old, which is an age where they will quickly re-adjust to their new homes which as I stated will be to friends that have known the pups since birth, if you look on many show person's website they will say they sometimes have young dogs they will let go to the right pet homes, maybe not many have posted that fact on here but it is the case, I have just been honest about it like it or not.

> in our case re-homing our boy tib puppy

I think running on a puppy to see how it turns out is different to passing on a dog later on, after all it will only be having a new home the same as it's siblings, just a bit later than them.

I could have done this with my Myka (was offered homes by people in the breed), but I just couldn't bring myself to do it, and also with having an overseas sire it would have been a waste of the new blood.

>Guess what i am trying to say is the bond with my 3 dogs is so, so strong, and that will be until death do us part!

I'm the same Wendy, my 5 are all pets and have all been promised a home for life.  When I was in NZ I just had 2 dogs and 2 cats and it would have been less hassel and less expense to re-home them when I returned to the UK but they mean the world to me so of course they came too.

>Of course they were pleased to see us on our return, but at the same time, I know if we had never been coming back for them, I doubt they'd have been that bothered LOL.

I guess this depends on the relationship you have with your animals.  My husband left his dog with his Dad when he went travelling for 6 months and he ended up being away 3 and a half years when he met me in NZ.  When we came back and visited his Dad his girl recognised him immediately and was beside herself with joy, she now lives with us as his Dad's health has not been good enough to look after her properly.  Although she is not a breed I would have gone out of my way to choose, she is family and will always be loved and have a home with us.  She won't ever be replaced by another.

> THEY HAVE LIVED IN A KENNEL AND ARENT HOUSE TRAINED, NOT BEEN SOCIALISED WITH DOGS OR SOCIETY. SOME ARE LEFT WITH PROBLEMS THAT WITH THE BEST WILL IN THE WORLD, ARE NOT GOING TO BE SOLVED.&nbsp;

I certainly wouldn't be wanting to live with dogs like that, any dog I have kept and the breeders I know, will have the advantage of being far more socialised than the average pet dog.  How can a dog as described ever make a confident show dog, as that was what it was supposed to be run on for?

Summerdream I am sure all you wanted was advice not critisism.

Butterfly lady!  You learn something every day. Today I just learnt how to shout on E mails. DO NOT assume we are all computer smart.  That is the same as tarring. Who rattled your crate, or are you always so ANGRY?
I do not tar all the same. just as I am sure all people in this thread are not on the defensive. If people do run pups on they have a responsibility to at least start those pups out on the right track.  Having been in the show world since early 80's I have seen good and bad in all breeds. and NOT all breeders do care where there pups go.  It would be nice to think we lived in a nice world, we do not. 

> some people do need to differentiate between the fact some dogs are bought for breeding or to be shown and some are bought as pets and are also shown or bred from.

I think you need to read the original post.  I agree dogs always intended for breeding or showing is one thing but what the OP is talking about is a dog that was a pet.  For 5 years a pet.  I'm afraid that would represent a detachment that very few regular posters on here could possibly identify with and to be honest, personally, I could not see it justified unless the breeding stock he was making room for was so exceptionally fine and of such rarity that it could not be lost.  Have you been exceptionally successful in the showring, Summerdream, or is this a very rare blood line?

tadog I was neither rattled nor angry, was merely replying to your post, if you percieved that as written in an angry manner then you were wrong, its an open forum so we all have a right to post as we see fit whether you like the reply to your post or not.

precisely! 

Open forum

right to post as we see fit.

As long as it is within the Terms of Service :D

Thank you Brainless!

Quite!

> its no good inferring that show people who pet home some of their pups are heartless uncaring people, that is certainly not the case,

Papillon if you were replying to me, no not intended to suggest that, simply to say that it was one of my 'criteria' when choosing a breeder this time.

I've deliberately stayed away from making judgments about others in my reply and tried to only give my personal perspective as a 'buyer' to the OP and her question.   I also tried to make the point about the number of pups that are run on then rehomed.  I think that if I had detected that this was a common occurrence with any breeder I visited then a) the breeder might be a bit too competitive for me, or b) that they weren't very decisive, or c) that they weren't terribly good at sorting the wheat from the chaff!  None of which would have been ideal for me, who was looking to dip a toe into showing and wanted gentle and sympathetic support for my first show dog.

I must admit that hearing someone consider rehoming an older dog simply to make room for a new one did make me flinch a bit and may have made my tone more emotional than I was aiming for :)  It's also why I tried to stick to the breeder aspect of it rather than the pet one - I suppose too that I'm wanting my chosen breeder to consider all their dogs as pets not commodities BUT I'm not generalising all breeders just replying to the OP and their situation.  A few years on, and with a little more experience of some good breeders I can probably say that if I was looking for a pet, I'd take a young 'rejected' show dog from some breeders over a supposed show dog from another!!  One lives and learns :)

Hi dogs a babe, just replying in general really, kind of got the impression that show people are seen as quite heartless about the dogs they keep, nothing further from the truth thats why I have 9 several of which never saw a show in their lives but are just wonderful companions to live with, I do think as you get further into showing your views do change somewhat really, we do tend to accumalate a lot of dogs the longer we are into showing then you can get to a point of having to think about numbers and how many you can keep so that they all have a good quality of life, which is why I will keep all my older ones and only pet home pups that cannot be shown, its better to let a pup go than an older one, anyway if I sounded a bit grumpy to anyone I didnt intend to, I am a straight talker and it doesn't always come across in posts as it was meant to be said if you know what I mean :-)

Would I have bought from a breeder that regularly rehomes older dogs or run pups on then moves them out if they don't make the grade?  No.  I want a breeder to whom the dog means more than the breeding programme and also one that is pretty skilled at choosing a good dog to keep or keeps them warts and all!
Well said dogs a babe!!

A couple of years ago we lost one of our dogs a bitch who was 11yrs old. Our other dog pined for her to the extent we ended up at the vets. She advised us that sometimes it can take months, sometimes not at all to get over loosing their "soul mate". I decided to look for a bitch, at the time there wasn't one , but I was "offered" a bitch by a breeder who was 2yrs old. When I say "offered" I couldn't buy her, I was asked if I wanted to take her, look after her on "her terms" ie what food etc. She was to go back to be mated and have her pups at the breeders, come back to us, then go back again to be mated when it was time to have another litter. After she had the set amount of litters we could then have her free of charge. This bitch had been kept to run on but hadn't made the grade. Needles to say, I declined, but often wonder what happened in the end. Is this what really happens in the show/breeding world with some breeders!!

Yes it can happen with some breeders WENDYD, its called "breeding terms" fell very foul of that myself once when I was first in Papillons years ago, all I can say is I wouldnt advise anyone to get involved in breeding terms at all, I have heard it can work in a few cases but have heard more about how it has gone terribly wrong to.

Wendy, this is what happends when a breeder  knows they cant keep a dog but still want to use them in their breeding program to keep lines going.  Many breeders do this with a 8 week old pup and is sold on the condition of a litter, or a dog sold on the proviso of being used at stud to one of their bitches if/when health tests are done and passed :)

There is a big difference between getting rid of a family pet, brouht for life then sold after just 5 years,  Compared to a puppy kept to be run on, then found a home because NORMALLY 2 pups are kept with the intention of one being sold and therefore normlly a home is waiting.

I also know a breeder who runs pups on for show quality to make sure they are of show quality before being past to their new owners. :)

To the OP

IMO, regardless of anyone's involvement in showing and/or breeding, ejecting an existing family companion for the sake of adding a potential show quality puppy or future breeding prospect is a callous attitude.

I have a high maintenance (in energy/mental stimmulation/ training/coat care) medium sized breed which tends to live well into double figures.  For that reason I space additions out to approx 4.5/5 years apart and would only intentionally plan to keep a maximum of four, although always be prepared to take back a puppy bred by me at whatever age. 

Should one or all for whatever reason be unsuitable for the show ring it would matter not - they are all loved and valued equally as first and foremost family pets and consequently irreplaceable.  I have had several dogs over the years, one 'retired' from the show ring at around 4.5/5 years and lived out her life just as cherished as she ever was, never bred from, and passed away peacefully in our arms at 14 years, breaking our hearts.  She was just as valuable to us as our most successful show dogs and would never have been parted with because she filled our hearts on equal terms with the others.

If you do not feel you have sufficient time, energy or other abilities to properly care for all of your existing dogs then I cannot understand why you would breed a litter in such circumstances.  But then you query the forum on rehoming *stock* - which I think you'll appreciate from the answers thus far that is not how the majority view their dogs at all.  They are our *pets* / *family companions* / *life long friends* with which we enjoy pursuing the hobby of showing, working and for some occasionally breeding but IME they are never *stock* :(

Everyone is different, although none of my close friends who breed or show feel differently to me either  - you wanted opinions and experiences, these are mine.

Teri

I personally would never rehome a dog, just to get another.  When I buy a dog, or breed a dog and keep a pup, I do that for LIFE.  I gave them my word, that I would keep them for life.  Just because a dog is done with their breeding, doesnt mean that they can be disguarded. 

Although I know a few people, who will use a dog, then resell it when it is finished producing.  I could never do that, but they look at the whole thing as a series of transactions.  And they are respected in the breed, which if you believe the things they do, I can see why.  Even though I dont live like them, and could never do what they do, I must say, I have learned a lot from them and value their opinions in regards to conformation.  But as far as pet ownership, no. 

When my bitches are done their breeding plans, then they are spayed, and stay with me for life.  When I keep a pup, then even though I retire one, and start new with another, doesnt mean I push the older dog into the back corner.  They are with me, until they go to Rainbow Bridge. 

In regards to you considering rehoming an older dog, just so you can show a dog, I find that a bit hard to digest.  Showing dogs will be around for a very long time.  You dont need to get into right away, right now.  Yes its fun, yes it can be rewarding.  BUT it is also a lot of work, and a lot of money.  And what happens if this new show pup, doesnt turn out to be a great show dog?  Will you rehome it to bring in a new one?

You are the one that has to live with yourself, no one on a forum can tell you whether you are right or wrong for your decision.  We can only say what WE would do.  If you rehome the older dog, fine, thats your choice.  But look into your pets eyes, and ask if you are being fair, or selfish. 

Sorry if it sounds harsh, but thats my personal opinion.

keep them every time. no question of anything different. thats why we have 14!!

Sam that would be me if we ever had pups. I would end up keeping them all.

A dog is with you for life and should not be cast aside just because it as served it's purpose.

If you have bred from it or shown it how can you get rid of it after it hasn't given you so much pleasure and experience.

I could never get rid of any of mine.  Children can give us lots of problems along the way but we always stand by them.

The same should happen with our animals.  After all we are responsible for them.

We have show dogs who are first and foremost our pets..We do run on puppies and always let one go when we have made what we think is the correct decision we usually have a home lined up ..We have on one occasion let a show dog who didnt like the ring (2years old) go to a new home.the home was excellent and the new owner had actually previously bought a puppy from me and it had met with an accident. The dog has settled in remarkably well and enjoys being one of two dogs.
I think blanket statements cannot be made as it depends very much on the circumstances.We have several dogs that did not make the ring who have remained as pets and whilst our numbers do not allow 1-1 attentionall of the time  all the  dogs are loved and well cared for..and most imortantly happy

Can I ask why is it different to rehome a dog bought in for showing if it doesn't make the grade as opposed to one as a pet?   Surely a 'show' dog should always be a pet first & foremost, the showing is just an added extra?    In my breed, rehoming of adult & puppies goes on amongst a few breeders if the dog doesn't make the grade as a showdog, hips or eyes not up to scratch or isn't worth keeping as a brood/stud because of poor progeny/whelper etc.

If people find this callous in dogs - don't even venture into the cat world!!!!!  LOL!

Couldn't have put it better myself, dogs a babe! :-)  Good breeders should be leading by example and giving their dogs a good home for life!

and I am sorry, but I shan't be abandoning my breeding and showing plans because of this....

Then it sounds like you've answered your own question.  Personally, I think it rather callous to a pet that has been with you for years, but perhaps he/she will find a home that values her more than she appears to be in her present home.  I think moving young stock on that is not fulfilling it's purpose is rather different.

Well, I'm going to put a completely different angle on this.....

I don't breed. I have two dogs who both came to me as adults, because they didn't fit the breeder's plans - one because, although she's from a very strong working line, she has absolutely no inclination to work, the other because she had a pyometra and had to be spayed. If he hadn't been prepared to let me have them, I would not have my adored girls - my lifestyle makes it quite difficult to have a young puppy. Yes, I knew him, and both dogs, before they came to live with me (two years apart), and no, he wouldn't have let them go to just anyone. Both settled down very well. They see him from time to time, and although they are welcoming, they still want to come home with me.

I agree that it's maybe a bit different when you are talking of rehoming a dog that was acquired specifically as a pet, but I can't see anything wrong with parting with a retired show dog or an ex brood bitch - if by so doing you are going to give them a more fulfilling life as a much loved pet. I can see where you are all coming from, saying that show/breeding dogs are pets first and foremost - but with the best will in the world, someone with eight or ten dogs can't give them the same attention as an owner with one or two. The dogs become their own pack.

I can quite understand that if the OP is really serious about breeding and showing she has to think carefully about the number of dogs she keeps. IMHO that's being responsible and caring - and she does talk about this dog going to a member of the family, so it's hardly the same as just selling her to the highest bidder, is it?

Just a final thought. I work with horses. There is no closer bond than that between a little girl and her pony - but children grow and ponies don't. When a pony is outgrown, it is sold on to another family where it can continue to give hours of pleasure and be equally loved. The previous owner may shed buckets of tears at its leaving, but has soon transferred her love to a new animal, and is pleased to see the old one doing well in a new home. Whatever you think about the bond between yourself and your dogs - and mine is very strong - we are talking about animals, not surrogate children. Well-adjusted dogs will have far less trauma about rehoming than will their owners, who may be in anguish about their leaving, but know that it is the best thing for the dog.

There is another side to this coin.  Show dogs are sold on to be shown by other people at all ages or stages of life.  Some of the lucky ones continue to be handled by people they know and appear to be happy and balanced.  It is obvious that they are cared for and pamperd but what of the bonds they have formed with the breeder or original order.  These dogs may change hands more than once in a life time.

> I think blanket statements cannot be made as it depends very much on the circumstances.

I agree CLOUGHROE

If people also include all the show owners dogs standing out in kennels for the rest of their lives, then NO I dont think they should keep them.

I also think that they shouldn't have got themself into a position where they feel that this is ok.
I've kept some of my dogs in kennels at one time but couldn't live with myself and started to bring them in overnight - then evenings etc etc but I felt really bad about a dogs life being lived out in a kennel.

I've been to successful exhibitors kennels where I've been proudly shown Champion this and Champion that .......some with old grey faces.
They should be in by the fire IMHO. At least somebodies fire. I don't feel that they deserve a pat on the back for keeping all their oldies in these circumstances.

Just another thought on this. There are people out there who can't/don't want a puppy but would like a dog in their lives. Taking on an older dog of known temperament (ie ex show dog) is one way they could be looking, rather than going for a rescue of unknown qualities. This is where my older bitch went. As she was starting to argue (blood on walls, etc...) with her older sister I had to do something. She spent 7 years with this family. When she passed on they came back looking for another one. They did not want a puppy. I didn't have another one, but passed them on to someone who did. Why should they, and people like them, be denied a dog? I would not have hesitated to let them have one of mine if I'd had one.

I haven't read all the replies so I'm probably repeating what others have already said. I don't inderstand how you can even contemplate rehoming a pet? You obviously don't feel the same way about your dogs as we do about ours....I would rather cut off my toes then let one of my dogs go!
We had a litter of 12 last summer, we kept one and I am in regular touch with every single one of them now and I cried when every one went. Just before Xmas one sadly died and my husband and I wept buckets (still grieving), it was like losing one of our own. It is unlikelyt that we will ever breed again as the emotional cost is far to high for us.

lincolnimp - I missed the bit about going to a family member, and I do agree that show/working dogs get moved and have no problem with that, but my understanding is that this is not an ex show dog that is being rehomed into a home environment, but rather the otherway round.  I understood that in this case the OP had pets, has had a couple of litters and now wants to get into showing, so wants to move on the original pet to make way for more breeding/show dogs.  Of course it is sensible to think of the practical considerations in terms of numbers, but it is not something I could contemplate with an older dog that has been a loving pet simply because you no longer have the time or space for it because of new plans.  Seems rather callous to me.

Looking at rehoming a pet dog from a different angle, how would those of you who do breed feel if someone bought a pup from you as a pet, had him/her as a pet for 5 years then got asked you to take the dog back or help rehome it because they have got into showing and breeding and want room in their household for a pup they are going to keep from their own litter to show?

We had to rehome a GSD 20 odd years ago due a change in our circumstances and to say it broke our hearts is an understatement. We now have a 20 mnth old bitch bought as a pet but we tried our hand at showing with her and we now have a 4mnth old dog bought to show but he is also a pet and I couldn't even contemplate rehoming my bitch if we had more dogs. She was our introduction to the breed and is very special to us.

> how would those of you who do breed feel if someone bought a pup from you as a pet, had him/her as a pet for 5 years then got asked you to take the dog back or help rehome

I asked the OP that way, way back up the thread but it has not been answered.  I think you already know what the rest of us would answer. :-)

It hasn't been answered as there IS no justifiable answer..callous has been mentioned in previous threads....too true.

I'm of the opinion the owner will  out this dog regardless of what is said on this forum.

Thanks one last time to all the nice people on this forum who have not resorted to nasty remarks but who have managed to express their opinions without personal attacks.
To those of you who have clearly just skimmed over the thread please do read it properly and I think you will find I have made my decision. You will also find that my query was not simply about keeping numbers down for MY sake, but also because I do wonder just how happy dogs are living in a pack (I am not sure any dog wants to be one of FOURTEEN as another poster has mentioned having)... the dog in question, I felt could well prefer living as a single dog or one of two, which is why I have contemplated letting her go to a family member.
I do wonder if admin could kindly lock this thread now ? I am sure everyone who wanted to have their say on the matter has now done so.
Kindest regards.