Hi, as many of you may know I have a somewhat unpredictable staffy who doesn't tolerate ill mannered dogs well and never shies away from a scrap.  I have just got a new pup and so far they have met in very controlled circumstances and missy has been great.

The pup has a crate and a 16' square puppy pen that is 4' high so that he is safe from my other dog if she did decide that he wasn't getting to share her life!  Anyway they have met through the puppy pen and also I have had the pup on my knee when missy has been on the sofa.  I have also had her on her lead in the back garden and him wandering about although he hasn't shown too much interest in her either - she seems to give off 'get lost' vibes.

She is a little bit curious but not enough to have a good look or sniff.  Ideally they will be able to play together etc when he is a bit older but I have no idea how to introduce free play between a young pup (8 weeks) and a grumpy staffy bitch.

So I am looking for some advice - do I let them both off in the back garden and get ready to swoop in a rescue the pup if necessary or wait until he has had all his vaccinations and can get outside and take them for a short walk together on neutral territory (another 3 weeks) or is there a 3rd solution that I haven't thought of yet?

Any adult dog is far more likely to accept a really young pup, so in my opinion the sooner they are together the better. Not entirely sure though if I would have got a pup if I was so unsure about the existing adult accepting it......? I have two 16 week old pups and from the day they moved in with my adults (that was at 10 weeks, when the other pups had all been collected) they have all been together 24/7 -well with the exception of when the pups have to go out individually to be walked, socialised etc of course. Even the adults I have that don't want to play with pups will instantly accept a small pup even down to letting them take food and toys off them. Had I waited until they were older I don't think it would have been as easy at all. :)

I agree with the above post, as soon as a puppy comes into my house, they are put in with the adult dogs, most of my adults are great with dogs/bitches, but the longer you keep them apart, the harder it is, I'm a great believer in letting them get on with it!!
Ours are used to other daily boarders coming in daily anyhow, so them seem to except anything!

congrats! hope he's settling in ok.

first off, your going to need to be relaxed about it (easier said than done), as you know if your nervous the dogs will be.

sounds like your doing well with the intos so far, just take it slowly if thats what you need. you might be lucky and she decides to take him under her wing- its surprising how much a pup can get away with.

i'd let them both on the floor at the same time, don't encourage contact but don't prevent it, be vigilent but not jumpy and hopefully she'll decide that because he's a baby he gets some slack. they will figure it out.

I mix pups with adults immediately but always give the adults a chance to escape to their beds in peace if they so wish, mind you none of my dogs are intolerant of other dogs providing they mind their manners.

Always find the males are worried to start with but soon start playing and I love the way they lay on their sides to allow the pup to run round and over them gently humming and mouthing the pup, it seems all the male adults love this contact.

Bitches seem to keep the interaction to putting they pup in its place and do not indulge in much playing any they do go in for is of a much rougher nature than that indulged in by the dogs, don't know if this is breed related or the general way of canines.

> Always find the males are worried to start with but soon start playing and I love the way they lay on their sides to allow the pup to run round and over them gently humming and mouthing the pup, it seems all the male adults love this contact.
>
> Bitches seem to keep the interaction to putting they pup in its place and do not indulge in much playing any they do go in for is of a much rougher nature than that indulged in by the dogs, don't know if this is breed related or the general way of canines.

ours have always been like this to nova. lol reminds me of many human families- mum does the parenting, dad lets the kids away with stuff lol

cheekychow, if your girl does er, educate your pup in manners at some point (hard to describe but a very controlled non connecting lunge/ jump up with a noise somewhere between a bark and a yelp) don't freak, perfectly normal :) pup will probably hit the deck at this point and the bitch should then either wander off of forgive the pup. (lol thats a terrible description though- anyone help??)

In my breed the bitch will usually floor the pup and none too carefully either then stand over and threaten even the slightest movement till she, the adult bitch, has had enough and she then wanders off with a 'don't mess with me' expression.  Have to say though I only ever housetrained my first pup since then the gang have done it for me.

> In my breed the bitch will usually floor the pup and none too carefully either then stand over and threaten even the slightest movement till she, the adult bitch, has had enough and she then wanders off with a 'don't mess with me' expression.  Have to say though I only ever housetrained my first pup since then the gang have done it for me.

this is what would have me panicking, I will see if my dog walker will help supervise the meeting as she is an extremely calming influence - a total dog whisperer if ever there was one.

missy has been asking to get into the garden when the pup goes which is hopefully a good sign.  fingers xed.

With regards to the posters who queried introducing another dog when the current one can be a bit narky with other dogs, given that it is a breed trait with staffies I am most definitely erring on the side of caution when doing the introductions.  I think it is a bit unreasonable to expect people with particular breeds or even stroppy dogs to never have other dogs.  It is likely that missy will teach him manners and I only hope she has a gentle teaching style :)

> missy has been asking to get into the garden when the pup goes which is hopefully a good sign.

hopefully. when we got a new pup once my then dog ditched me on a walk. i was terrified and was running all over the park trying to find him and eventually went home in tears to get help. little 'rascal' was standing next to the door trying to get back to his 'fantastic new toy' lol

lol, I don't think she is that keen Kim.  They have constant visual and smelling access to each other as I have been sleeping in the living room and so has missy and it leads onto the kitchen which has french door so it is almost open plan lol.  My worries relate to it moving from visual, audio and smell to being able to catch the little monkey!

your just going to have to let them at each other or you'll keep building it up in your head till it's driving you nuts. let him out, you sit down and relax, see how it goes.

breathe deeply

Hi
I would suggest making sure that there are no toys or food around when you do your first intros.

Also, if you can orchestrate it so that both pup and older dog have escape routes that would be good.  In other words, a taller barricade that your bitch can jump over to get to a bit of peace, and a small 'catflap' type gap somewhere, somehow that your pup can get through but that the bitch can't.  If you can set this up, introduce both dogs to the environment seperately first and ensure that they are familiar with the escape options.

A friend of mine had a similar situation and introduced the two in the garden;  she created a pen with trellis fencing that the older dog could jump over but that the pup couldn't get through.  The pen was build butting on to the garage door which had a cat flap in it which she wedged open for the pup and got the pup to go in and out a few times before hand.

The calming dog walker sounds good!  :-)

I'd agree.  The sooner they are together the better, so long as of course, you watch them like a hawk.

I too have an unpredictable female Stafford, and so, when I first introduced Alf (our male) to her, I was worried how she would react.  Though I also knew that most of her behaviour is fear based.

It took weeks.  Thankfully we got Alf in summertime and so most of the introducing happened in the garden.
Tess really avoided him at first, but Alf wanted nothing more than to play with her.  Initially Tess beared her teeth a bit, and had a bit of a grizzle, but made no attempt to be harmful toward Alf, and very slowly she became used to the idea.  It was being clambered on that she objected to I think! lol

It really did take weeks to happen, but she was fine in the end.  I think those first few days in the garden were the most important.  I almost made them interact with each other, made sure that Tess always had a toy or something else to occupy her, I occasionally lifted Alf up too so that Tess was able to sniff him, and gave Tess lots of praise when she just sniffed and walked away.
Wish you the best of luck with your new pup :-)

ETA - Agree with what Astarte has said too, try and be calm.  I was a nervous wreck and the day we first got Alf, hubby and son went off to a pre-arranged footy match so I was left alone to cope with the new introduction, so I felt as though I'd been abandoned and had to have eyes in the back of my head! lol
I was very very cautious, and to the point where I just wanted to crate the pair of them and cry - but it was my own fear, not my dogs reluctance and it really was best in my opinion to get them together asap.
hope this helps some!

tessies tracey, your post sums up exactly how I am feeling at the moment.  If missy was a poodle or a chi or something I would have no worries but I know that if she chose to she could seriously damage the pup.  There has been no indication so far that she would and I have been using a similar approach to you and putting them near each other but not forcing it.  I believe some of missys aggression is fear based also but she does have a low tolerance for behaviours too.

I have also been giving missy lots of praise when she is near him and feeding her high value treats like steak when she is near the pen so hopefully she should be associating him with positive things.

I will clear the garden of anything of any perceived value to either dog and see how it goes. 

Deep breaths and plenty of calmness - easier said than done but calm thoughts all round....

Hi
sounds like your doing all the right things already by spoiling your girl to make her realise firstly that the pup in her life is a good thing to of happened.

Another mental way of getting over your anxiety of your new pack is be very matter of fact and mumsy like- 'well you will get on because that's the way it is' !
I have always been like this when getting a rescue and introducing females of other family members together, always a worry with grown up bitches... but turned out fine.

As I've recently taken on a 4 yr old boy have been worried that friend asked me to look after her 2 yr old boxer but so far everything has gone smoothly only the odd stare from friends Rod and growl from my boy ! |My snoop & Tinkerbell have seen so many dogs of all ages come and go are not bothered at all.

  I think it is a bit unreasonable to expect people with particular breeds or even stroppy dogs to never have other dogs. 

It's called being responsible and putting the dogs' safety before your own enjoyment.

I,ve had no problems introducing the last three pups but I just know there would be massive problems is I were to bring in a new pup with my current girl.
Much as I,d love a pup no way will I risk it  I think we all know our own dogs and should act accordingly but the best of luck with yours it sounds like you,re going to be fine.
Sharon

> Deep breaths and plenty of calmness - easier said than done but calm thoughts all round....

perhaps some rescue remedy for yourself?

Keep us posted Cheekychow with how it all goes.  Definitely try the rescue remedy for yourself if it helps calm you :-)

> I think we all know our own dogs and should act accordingly

I think you make a very good point there Sharon.  We do (or should) know our own dogs well enough to make an informed and sensible decision about introducing another dog to the household.

> We do (or should) know our own dogs well enough to make an informed and sensible decision about introducing another dog to the household.

from what cheekychow has said about her girl in the past i've taken that she's inclined to be friendly but has been made nervous by circumstance and those nerves manifest in a 'hard man attitude'. that behavioural issue does not negate her ability to bond with and enjoy another dog in the house.

i suspect that when we eventually get another dog i'll be the same- building it up in the head till its a huge issue rather than something thats not all that hard.

so cheekychow, have a cuppa, take some rescue remedy, watch something that relaxes you and when your feeling up to it release the hounds :) it'll be fine.

> from what cheekychow has said about her girl in the past i've taken that she's inclined to be friendly but has been made nervous by circumstance and those nerves manifest in a 'hard man attitude'. that behavioural issue does not negate her ability to bond with and enjoy another dog in the house

Sounds exactly like my girl too Astarte.  She was 'set upon' by another dog when she was about 3 or 4 years old. 
She didn't show any signs of active aggression toward other dogs even after that, but was very waggy tail and happy to see other dogs, but just wasn't keen when they got too close.  So I knew and hoped that in our own home she would be entirely different, and I was right.
I hope that Cheekychow has the same experience, and from what you have said about her Stafford, it sounds very similar to my case.

When I introduced my youngest Goldie to the rest of the canine family I knew there would be issues with one of them (Dobe), but by gradually introducing them and supervising at all times they are now very much the best of friends and play constantly.

Not all dogs that are dog aggressive outside the home environment will necessarily be the same when introduced to a pup in the home. My first Dobe was very intolerant with other dogs but was OK with pups, so that is how I introduced another dog to the household. IME most dogs, and I know there are those that aren't, are good with pups.

>   I think it is a bit unreasonable to expect people with particular breeds or even stroppy dogs to never have other dogs. 
>
> It's called being responsible and putting the dogs' safety before your own enjoyment.

marianne if the worst comes to the worst I will seperate them as I believe many people who choose to have large and small breeds have to do to prevent any harm coming to the smaller breeds.  Is this any different?

well, the deed is done...

My heart was in my mouth and I felt sick throughout but it went ok.  She ignored him in the garden and was her usual waggy happy self with the people in the garden but when he got too close she roared at him but only noise and definitely no intent to make contact.  He took a telling and took himself off to sit on the door mat but would come back a few minutes later.

I will just have to do short bursts of this until he learns that jumping at her face means he gets roared at.  She had no intention to make contact at all but her growls sound very ferocious (sp).  After she roared at him she was beside him when someone was holding him and was fine which has calmed me down no end.

I have just logged on so didn't read about the rescue remedy but that is probably a very good move for when I am doing this on my own rather than with calm people around

Thanks to everyone for the advice, if I hadn't got it I would probably have stayed extremely cautious and never introduced them properly.  Astarte and Tessies Tracey have got it spot on about my dog's behaviour so thanks for the advice and understanding what I was posting.

Well done you.  First step done.  :-)

Well done - I'm sure things will be fine and they will soon be best chums.

I have to agree, I thought Marianne's comment was a bit harsh. Surely the reason we all have dogs, be it one or 6, is because we love their company and the joy they bring, and will do our best for each and everyone of them.

thanks pedlee, I am hoping the pair of them will be cosied up in their bed in a few months time snoring away.  Just now they are both sleeping about 6' away from each other.  Missy is just very intolerant, heaven help him when he starts trying to hump her!

I have put a picture of him on my profile but it is hard to see as they are so small.  I think she is just miffed coz she has a common name (although I love it) and he has got a more classical name (oberon) lol.

goodness me that boys adorable!! wish the avatars were a bit bigger, he looks so cute :)

really glad it went well, hope your feeling a little less preassured now.

as to the scary roar, don't worry its perfectly normal. in fact its often benefitial to you to as she'll inhibit his urge to jump on anyone (hopefully).

all in all sounds like it was successful, keep up the good work :)

Hi, as many of you may know I have a somewhat unpredictable staffy who doesn't tolerate ill mannered dogs well and never shies away from a scrap.  I have just got a new pup

am i the only one wondering why you have a new pup if the resident dog is unpredictable? are they both staffies? i know there was a recent post on someone wanting another staffie and most said it was a bad idea?  i have 2 schnauzers and my resident bitch loved other dogs until the new pup arrived. she pinned her constantly and made her squeal and i almost gave her up but gradually they settled down. it took at least 18 months and they have tolerated each other since. i used to have visions of best friends and snuggling in the same bed but not to be, they sleep near each other but never touch.

We've have recently added a new addition, even though my bitch is fear aggressive....Though she has always been very accepting of dogs coming and going in the house. As we are always looking after someones dog  :-) so wasn't to worried. The only thing i won't do with pup is walk them together in over populated doggy areas, so he doesn't learn any bad habits :-).
Someone hit the nail on the head, of knowing your own dogs :-)

Hope it works out well with your pup, and good luck :-)

thanks dexter, missy loves rotties they are one of the main breeds she actively seeks out so looking at the odds I am hopeful that with a bit of gentle persuasion from myself all will end well. 

That is a good tip about walking seperately in doggy areas.  Missy will actively avoid meeting other dogs as she prefers to play with her toys and mosey about but I definitely don't want oberon to miss out on interactions so they will go at different times. 

One huge positive in this is that with life as a giant dog walk my bum will definitely get smaller!

Glad its all ok- I think sometimes that the longer you leave it then the more it makes you worry

I'm another vote for dumping new pup down in the garden, letting the other dogs out and then never separating them again - apart from pup having to be shut in kitchen when I'm out for housetraining purposes, even then though new pup would always have an adult for company. I have a giant breed, dog aggressive, dog who could easily kill a young pup (or me!) - but he wouldn't. I have had the odd time when an adult will snap at a pup and then pup runs off screaming like it's been murdered, but never a mark on them. Mr Beastly trains all new pups very well, clearly better than I do because he can leave his bone on the floor and go to the loo without anyone stealing it. If I put my dinner on the floor they've eaten it before I've left the room!

I don't think that having one dog aggressive dog means you can't have any more dogs, in fact I think it's better for the aggressive dog because they can at least socialise/play with their own kind at home.

that is reassuring tigger2.  I still don't think I would leave them alone but will definitely push the boundaries each day and by the sound of things missy will teach him manners which will prevent him being a nuisance to society as he gets bigger and bolder - like he isn't bold enough already!

That's the trick, to let your older dog put pup in his place while he is still a baby. If you leave it too long he'll lose his puppy licence and then she may actually bite him. I wouldn't be able to bring an older adolescent pup into my house, by the time my dogs are 12 weeks old they know exactly how far they can push Tchi, and know not to touch his food or bones. An older pup charging around and jumping on him would probably be eaten, baby puppies get away with a roar - that terrifies the life out of them and they learn to behave around him.

> I have had the odd time when an adult will snap at a pup and then pup runs off screaming like it's been murdered, but never a mark on them.

I had an old adult male when I brought my male pup home. I thought the oldie would love the pup from the first minute he saw him as he adored friends/families dogs/pups visiting, but he didn't take to pup at first. Pup just had to walk near oldie and oldie would yelp/scream like he was being murdered :( This gradually lessened and he would only make the noise if pup bit him/played too hard, then it moved onto oldie making the most horrendous sounding 'attack' noisies while snapping at pup and making contact with him, but for all the noise and awfull image of it pup was never hurt, not even scratched and unfortunately took it as play, not a telling off, he would keep on untill oldie barked - then pup would leg it!!! Over the months it progressed to oldie even allowing pup to snuggle up in his bed with him :)

> That's the trick, to let your older dog put pup in his place while he is still a baby.

Couldn't agree more Tigger2

> I wouldn't be able to bring an older adolescent pup into my house,

This was true in our case too, Bo (our Rotti) wasn't over keen on a puppy we were thinking of rescuing he was twenty weeks and a Rotti aswell. When she went for a meet with Fudge (Mastiff X) who was just over eight weeks she thought he was "the bees knees" now their best buddies, sometimes he tries it on but Bo puts him firmly in his place, and he has that look of ok ok sorry I know your the boss :-)

Cheekychow hope things continue to go well, may I add he is a gorgeous looking puppy.

Diane